Crypt Rats and the like.

[jighm]

I already know the answer to this, but, I am disagreed on by a cousing
and an Arena judge. Senario:

I cast Crypt Rats on my turn. Immediately, I use it's pestilence ability
to sweep the board of creatures. I am told that I cannot do that while
Rats is summon-sickened because they did damage and that's like
attacking so requires a tap. I say that you can use it's ability on the
turn that it came out because it doesn't require tapping as part of its
activation cost. Who's right?

How about using the ability while Rats is tapped? Can I do that? If
someone kills it, if I can, I activate the ability to do damage to
everything else that I can, even if it's tapped.

One more question about Crypt Rats. When the pestilence effect is
activated, if Rats is killed before the pestilence effect resolves, does
that pestilence effect still resolve?

Thanks for any help.

Jighm

[Phaedrus]

In article <340FA7...@mail.comteck.com>, jighm <ji...@comteck.com> wrote:
>I already know the answer to this, but, I am disagreed on by a cousing
>and an Arena judge. Senario:
>
>I cast Crypt Rats on my turn. Immediately, I use it's pestilence ability
>to sweep the board of creatures. I am told that I cannot do that while
>Rats is summon-sickened because they did damage and that's like
>attacking so requires a tap. I say that you can use it's ability on the
>turn that it came out because it doesn't require tapping as part of its
>activation cost. Who's right?

If your Arena judge told you that, then that's a regrettable indication
of the quality standards for Arena judges...
Attacking can cause damage, but causing damage is not attacking.
Attacking has a very precise meaning--being declared as an attacking creature
in combat. If there's no combat going on, then a creature cannot possibly
be attacking.
You are right. Crypt Rats' ability is not an attack, and it does not
have the tap symbol in its cost, so it is not affected by summoning sickness.

> How about using the ability while Rats is tapped? Can I do that? If
>someone kills it, if I can, I activate the ability to do damage to
>everything else that I can, even if it's tapped.

Yes, you can use the Rats' ability while it's tapped. The only cards
whose abilities "turn off" when they're tapped are non-creature artifacts.
Bear in mind that you have to use the Rats _before_ they're about to
die. For example, if I cast a Lightning Bolt at your Rats, you can use their
ability in response; but if you wait until the Bolt resolves, it's too late--
the Rats' ability isn't a damage prevention ability, so it can't legally be
used during the damage prevention step.

> One more question about Crypt Rats. When the pestilence effect is
>activated, if Rats is killed before the pestilence effect resolves, does
>that pestilence effect still resolve?

You know the words, everybody; sing along. :-) Destroying the source of
an effect does not counter the effect. If you've already announced and paid
for the Rats' ability, destroying the Rats won't matter--their ability will
still resolve, and still deal damage all around.
--
\o\ If you're interested in books/stories with transformation themes, \o\
/o/ try <URL:http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/translist/translist.html>. /o/
\o\ New list entries always appreciated. FC1.21:FC(W/C)p6arw A- C->++ D>++ \o\
/o/ H+ M>+ P R T++++ W** Z+ Sm RLCT a cmn++++$ d e++ f+++ h- i++wf p-- sm# /o/

[Krooz]

jighm wrote:
>
> I already know the answer to this, but, I am disagreed on by a cousing
> and an Arena judge. Senario:
>
> I cast Crypt Rats on my turn. Immediately, I use it's pestilence ability
> to sweep the board of creatures. I am told that I cannot do that while
> Rats is summon-sickened because they did damage and that's like
> attacking so requires a tap. I say that you can use it's ability on the
> turn that it came out because it doesn't require tapping as part of its
> activation cost. Who's right?
>

> How about using the ability while Rats is tapped? Can I do that? If
> someone kills it, if I can, I activate the ability to do damage to
> everything else that I can, even if it's tapped.

Since its ability does not require it to be tapped as an activation cost
you can use its ability if its successfully summoned. That judge is a
complete git.

> One more question about Crypt Rats. When the pestilence effect is
> activated, if Rats is killed before the pestilence effect resolves, does
> that pestilence effect still resolve?

Yes, removing the source of an effect does not stop the effect.

--
*********************************************************
* KROOZ * Email: Special_A...@thepentagon.com *
******** URL: http://alpha7.curtin.edu.au/~ehau *
******************************************************

[David DeLaney]

ji...@mail.comteck.com (jighm) says:
>I already know the answer to this, but, I am disagreed on by a cousing
>and an Arena judge. Senario:
>
>I cast Crypt Rats on my turn. Immediately, I use it's pestilence ability
>to sweep the board of creatures. I am told that I cannot do that while
>Rats is summon-sickened because they did damage and that's like
>attacking so requires a tap. I say that you can use it's ability on the
>turn that it came out because it doesn't require tapping as part of its
>activation cost. Who's right?

You are. [_Bad_ judge.] Doing damage is not "like attacking" in any way at
all. If the Rats needed to be tapped as part of the cost of using them,
they would _say_ so; they don't say so, so you don't have to tap them to
use their ability, and they can do it perfectly well while summon-sick.
Ditto Brothers of Fire, Combat Medic, pump-knights, etc.

> How about using the ability while Rats is tapped? Can I do that?

Sure. Creature abilities do not turn off when the creature's tapped; neither
do land or enchantment abilities. Only artifact abilities do, if the artifact
is -only- an artifact and not also a creature, land, or enchantment.

>If someone kills it, if I can, I activate the ability to do damage to
>everything else that I can, even if it's tapped.

Yep.

> One more question about Crypt Rats. When the pestilence effect is
>activated, if Rats is killed before the pestilence effect resolves, does
>that pestilence effect still resolve?

Yes. Destroying or otherwise fiddling with, the _source_ of an already-played
effect doesn't do anything at _all_ to the effect itself. You would need to
use something that _countered_ the ability to be able to stop it, and at present
there isn't anything at all that _can_ counter it unless the Rats are for some
reason an artifact.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flowe
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to se
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK
http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K

[Joachim Tabaczek]

In article <340FA7...@mail.comteck.com>, jighm <ji...@mail.comteck.com> writes:
|> I already know the answer to this, but, I am disagreed on by a cousing
|> and an Arena judge. Senario:
|>
|> I cast Crypt Rats on my turn. Immediately, I use it's pestilence ability
|> to sweep the board of creatures. I am told that I cannot do that while
|> Rats is summon-sickened because they did damage and that's like
|> attacking so requires a tap. I say that you can use it's ability on the
|> turn that it came out because it doesn't require tapping as part of its
|> activation cost. Who's right?

You are. Crypt Rats don't _say_ they tap as part of the activation
cost, so they don't. And since they don't tap as part of the activation
cost, they can use the ability even when they're summoning sick. [And
dealing damage isn't `like attacking' at all; both your cousin and this
judge (are you _sure_ s/he's a judge?) seem to be seriously confused.]

|> How about using the ability while Rats is tapped? Can I do that? If

|> someone kills it, if I can, I activate the ability to do damage to
|> everything else that I can, even if it's tapped.

Yes, that works as well. Only non-creature artifacts `shut off' when
tapped; all other permanents can still use abilities that don't
require tapping as part of the cost.

|> One more question about Crypt Rats. When the pestilence effect is
|> activated, if Rats is killed before the pestilence effect resolves, does
|> that pestilence effect still resolve?

Yes. Once activated, an effect is separate from its source; nothing
you can do to this source, including destroying it, can change the
effect in any way.

Joachim