Sengir Vampire and Venom
Hari Seldon
creature "dies" during a turn that the Sengir damaged it. Venom States that a
creature involved in combat with the enchanted creature is "destroyed." If the
Sengir does NON-lethal damage to a creature and the creature is then destroyed
by the venom would the sengir get a +1/+1 counter? Please reply either to this
group or by email. I appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks.
Davis
Mike Marcelais
Yes. `Dies' and `Destroyed' are equivelant terms and the Sengir did damage the
creature before Venom killed it.
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ZAPLEE
he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
four?
james smith
: I have a related question. If you put a lure on you venomed Vampire, and
: he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
: does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
: four?
He'd only get counters for each creature he damaged. Probably four (unless
he's Unholy Strength-ed or something).
James
Michael D. Phoenix
>I have a related question. If you put a lure on you venomed Vampire, and
>he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
>does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
>four?
Short answer: 4 counters at most, depending on how the Sengir distributes
its damage, and whether any of it is prevented.
Long answer:
Sengir Vampire says: "Put a +1/+1 counter on Sengir Vampire each time a
creature is put into the graveyard the same turn Sengir Vampire damaged it."
(Note that this also means that if a creature is damaged by the Sengir
Vampire, retrieved from the graveyard by Animate Dead, and then returned
to the graveyard when the Animate Dead is Disenchanted that turn, the
Sengir Vampire gets another +1/+1 counter (a total of two from that creature.
But that's not important right now.)
If your Vampire damages 4 creatures, and they happen to be among the 7
creatures who go to the graveyard this turn, the Vampire will get 4
+1/+1 counters. The fact that another 3 creatures went to the graveyard
matters not at all to the Sengir Vampire; it did not damage them, and
thus they do not contribute counters to it when they go to the graveyard.
Anyone want to figure out an infinite combo involving Enduring Renewal, an
Ornithopter damaged by a Sengir Vampire, and two (name blank--the white spell
that gives all non-white creatures -1/-1 until end of turn)? All you have to
do is find a way for you to control both the Ornithopter and the Sengir
Vampire, and yet have the Sengir Vampire damage the ornithopter...and you'll
have an infinitely large Sengir Vampire, which as we all know can easily
be converted to infinite almost-anything-else by the various engines
already in existence...
Mickey.
Tim Drozinski
> Ok here's one for you. The Sengir says that it gains a +1/+1 counter when a
> creature "dies" during a turn that the Sengir damaged it. Venom States that a
> creature involved in combat with the enchanted creature is "destroyed." If the
> Sengir does NON-lethal damage to a creature and the creature is then destroyed
> by the venom would the sengir get a +1/+1 counter? Please reply either to this
> group or by email. I appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks.
That is exactly why the wording of the Sengir Vampire is the way it is. All you
have to do is one damage to the creature, and then kill it some other way by the
end of the turn. Venom, lightning bolts, disintegrate, anything. Even kill it
with some other creature if possible.
Droz
__________________________________________________________________________
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Mark Phaedrus
> I have a related question. If you put a lure on you venomed Vampire, and
> he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
> does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
> four?
Vampires only get counters for creatures they damage--that means
creatures they deal one or more points of damage to, not just creatures
that happen to die when they come near him. :-) If the vampire only has
four points of damage to deal, it can only deal damage to four creatures.
(It might even be worth the opponent's while to prevent some of this
damage if he can--even if the Venom still kills the defenders later, if
the Vampire assigns damage to four creatures and the defender manages to
prevent the damage to three of them, the Vampire will only get one counter
at the end of the turn.)
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Mike Stern
: Ok here's one for you. The Sengir says that it gains a +1/+1 counter when a
: creature "dies" during a turn that the Sengir damaged it. Venom States that a
: creature involved in combat with the enchanted creature is "destroyed." If the
: Sengir does NON-lethal damage to a creature and the creature is then destroyed
: by the venom would the sengir get a +1/+1 counter? Please reply either to this
: group or by email. I appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks.
The creature "died". The Sengir damaged it. It was the same turn. The
rest I leave as an excersize...
: Davis
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Mike Stern
ster...@netcom.com
"A waste is such a terrible thing to mind"
Anonymous Garbage Dump Supervisor
Christopher Robert Durston
>Ok here's one for you. The Sengir says that it gains a +1/+1 counter when a
>creature "dies" during a turn that the Sengir damaged it. Venom States that a
>creature involved in combat with the enchanted creature is "destroyed." If the
>Sengir does NON-lethal damage to a creature and the creature is then destroyed
>by the venom would the sengir get a +1/+1 counter? Please reply either to this
>group or by email. I appreciate any help that I can get. Thanks.
Vampire gets counter because creature died during turn in which
vampire did damage to it.
-Chris
David DeLaney
>Ok here's one for you. The Sengir says that it gains a +1/+1 counter when a
>creature "dies" during a turn that the Sengir damaged it. Venom States that a
>creature involved in combat with the enchanted creature is "destroyed."
"Destroyed" means "went from play to the graveyard". "Died" means "a creature
went from play to the graveyard", which is the same as "A creature was
destroyed". You don't need to worry about any technical nitpicks; if something
prevents Xs from being destroyed, then it can prevent Xs which are creatures
from dying.
If the
>Sengir does NON-lethal damage to a creature and the creature is then destroyed
>by the venom would the sengir get a +1/+1 counter?
Yes, since the creature was destroyed in the same turn that the Vampire damaged
it. [Unless it killed the Sengir through combat damage before it dies, in
which case the Vamp will be in the graveyard before the time comes for it to
gain a counter.]
Dave
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David DeLaney
>I have a related question. If you put a lure on you venomed Vampire, and
>he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
>does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
>four?
As the text says, he only gets counters for the ones he actually damaged before
they die. Usually four; if he's already got counters, this can be more than
four.
James Hanley
>he kills seven creatures because of it, does he get seven counters, or
>does he only get counters for those he could concievably damage, probably
>four?
Good point, and somewhat obvious when you think about it. The wording on the
card does specify that the Sengir vampire has to damage, so in the above
example of the lured, venomed Sengir it could only damage 4, so it only gets
+4/+4.
Unless you can generate more damage e.g. a howl from beyond, or your oppenent
has a banding creature in which case he can apply all damage to only one of his
creatures and the sengir only gets +1/+1.
Dave S Moore
only gains +1/+1 at that end of a turn in which a creature that he
damages goes to the graveyard.
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