Liege of the Pit
Lord of Secrets
5BBB
Creature-Demon
Flying, Trample
7/7
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature other than Liege
of the Pit.
If you can't, Liege of the Pit deals 7 damage to you
Morph BBBB (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn
it face up any time for its Morph cost.)
Let's say, I play Liege and attack with him. During my opponent's turn,
can i morph it and during my attack phase un-morph it so I don't have
to sacrifice a creature and won't get the 7 damage?
Jax
No. There's no way on this card to turn Liege back down after you've
turned it face up. There are some ways you can turn it face down again
(Ixidron is one way), but it can't do that by itself.
Daniel W. Johnson
Please define "morph" and "un-morph". The rules don't define "morph" as
a verb, and they don't define "un-morph" at all.
And if one of those refers to turning it face down, please explain how
you intend to do that.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
pano...@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
Lord of Secrets
turn. And AFTER my upkeep I pay its morph cost and turn the card face
up. So I won't be affected by Lieges' ability. Because at the beginning
of my upkeep I should sacrifice a creature other than Liege, if not
Liege would deal 7 damage to me. So if Liege is a 2/2 creature during
my turn that would mean the ability won't take place, isn't it?
In short, I will be playing Liege face down during my upkeep and will
play it face up during my main phase. I know it's a little confusing
but I hope this is clear enough now.
Daniel W. Johnson
> When I play Liege face down as a 2/2 creature during my opponent's
> turn.
Again, how?
212.3. Creatures
212.3a A player may play a creature card from his or her hand during a
main phase of HIS OR HER turn, when he or she has priority and the stack
is empty. Playing a creature as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409,
"Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.")
(emphasis mine)
> And AFTER my upkeep I pay its morph cost and turn the card face
> up. So I won't be affected by Lieges' ability. Because at the beginning
> of my upkeep I should sacrifice a creature other than Liege, if not
> Liege would deal 7 damage to me. So if Liege is a 2/2 creature during
> my turn that would mean the ability won't take place, isn't it?
If the ability doesn't exist, it doesn't trigger, yes.
> In short, I will be playing Liege face down during my upkeep and will
> play it face up during my main phase. I know it's a little confusing
> but I hope this is clear enough now.
If you are going to play it twice in each of your turns, how are you
planning to keep returning it to your hand?
David DeLaney
>Liege of the Pit 5BBB Creature-Demon
> other than ~. If you can't, ~ deals 7 damage to you. / Morph BBBB (*)
>Let's say, I play Liege and attack with him. During my opponent's turn,
>can i morph it and during my attack phase un-morph it so I don't have
>to sacrifice a creature and won't get the 7 damage?
Morph isn't an ability that lets you turn something face-DOWN at any time other
than when you're originally playing (casting) the creature spell. If you
cast him face-down, and he comes into play face-down, after that any time
you have priority you can pay BBBB to turn him face-up ... but then he has
no way to turn himself back _face-down_. So he can't do what I think you want
him to do on his own; you'd have to use some effect that said to turn him
face-down.
If you have such a spell or ability and use it, you'd want to do so, at the
latest, before the end of opponent's turn; if he's face-up as your upkeep
starts his ability WILL trigger, and will resolve even if he's turned face-down
in response... and there's no time during your turn BEFORE your upkeep when
you can use abilities or cast spells. So yes, managing to turn him face-down
during your attack step would have him face-down in plenty of time before your
next upkeep started ... but he has no way to turn himself face-down once he's
in play.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>When I play Liege face down as a 2/2 creature during my opponent's
>turn. And AFTER my upkeep I pay its morph cost and turn the card face
>up. So I won't be affected by Lieges' ability. Because at the beginning
>of my upkeep I should sacrifice a creature other than Liege, if not
>Liege would deal 7 damage to me. So if Liege is a 2/2 creature during
>my turn that would mean the ability won't take place, isn't it?
Okay, this is a better explanation of what you want to do. And sure, you can
do that. If the Liege is face-down as your upkeep starts, he has no abilities
then, so nothing can trigger. Turning him face-up DURING your upkeep doesn't
"rewind to the start of upkeep" or anything, and would already be past the
time on your turn at which he'd trigger. (Turning him face-up AFTER your
upkeep also will mean you're past the time this turn when he'd trigger, so
he won't trigger this turn.)
Lord of Secrets
> do that. If the Liege is face-down as your upkeep starts, he has no abilities
> then, so nothing can trigger. Turning him face-up DURING your upkeep doesn't
> "rewind to the start of upkeep" or anything, and would already be past the
> time on your turn at which he'd trigger. (Turning him face-up AFTER your
> upkeep also will mean you're past the time this turn when he'd trigger, so
> he won't trigger this turn.)
That's what I needed to hear! :)
Thanks again Dave!
Zoe Stephenson
Liege of the Pit {5}{B}{B}{B} Creature - Demon 7/7
/ Flying, trample
/ At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature other than
Liege of the Pit. If you can't, Liege of the Pit deals 7 damage to
you.
/ Morph BBBB (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn
it face up any time for its morph cost.)
> Let's say, I play Liege and attack with him.
You didn't say whether you played the Liege of the Pit face up or face
down.
You can't attack with the Liege of the Pit on the same turn it comes
into play unless something else gives it haste.
> During my opponent's turn,
> can i morph it
This isn't a game term. Do you mean to turn the creature face up by
revealing the morph cost it will have and paying that cost? Or do
you mean that you have some way of playing a creature spell on your
opponent's turn and you want to play a face-down creature spell?
> and during my attack phase un-morph it so I don't have
> to sacrifice a creature and won't get the 7 damage?
I think you may be confused about morph.
Morph lets you play the creature card in your hand as a face-down
spell. It comes into play as a face-down creature, a 2/2 with no
abilities. This means that the triggered ability that has you
sacrifice a creature won't be there while it's face down, and you
won't have to either sacrifice a creature or take 7 damage.
The morph ability also has a morph cost on it. You can reveal
what that morph cost will be, pay it and turn the creature face
up. Once you've done this, it's just a regular face-up creature
with all the stats and abilities printed on the card. If it's
face up as the upkeep step starts, its "beginning of upkeep"
triggered ability will trigger.
You can't arbitrarily choose to turn the creature face down again
after you've turned it face up. Morph doesn't let you do this. If
you want to turn the creature face down again, you need a spell or
ability that can do so. For example:
Backslide {1}{U} Instant
/ Turn target creature with morph face down.
/ Cycling {U} ({U}, Discard this card: Draw a card.)
So:
- while the Liege of the Pit is face down, it's just a 2/2 and you
don't have to sacrifice creatures to it.
- once you've turned it face up, it's a 7/7 flying trampling demon,
but you now have to start feeding it.
--
-- Zoe Stephenson, NetRep rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Group FAQ: http://www.boondock.org.uk/~zoe/mtgrules/ --
--
Keith Piddington
: If you have such a spell or ability and use it, you'd want to do so, at the
: latest, before the end of opponent's turn; if he's face-up as your upkeep
: starts his ability WILL trigger, and will resolve even if he's turned face-down
: in response...
The one advantage, I suppose, in turning LotP face-down during
upkeep is that it could then be sacrificed to its own ability,
as once it is face-down it doesn't remember what it just was
when face-up...
Keith
pano...@iquest.net
No.
202.2. Text that refers to the object it's on by name means just that
particular object and not any other duplicates of it, regardless of any
name changes caused by game effects.
It's ineligible for the sacrifice, even if it no longer has the name
"Liege of the Pit".
And I still think that the original poster hasn't come up with
something to actually turn it face down.
David DeLaney
?? No, it's still the same _permanent_, and still the same creature. It
has just changed its name, its p/t, its creature type, etc. - it's put on
a wig and some lipstick, if you like. Text on an ability originating from it
that uses the name it had when the ability was created is referring to it,
regardless of name changes, so you can't sacrifice it to its own triggered
ability regardless of what it looks like on resolution. (Applicable to
Vesuvan Doppelganger/Shapeshifter, Unstable Shapeshifter, etc., also.)