Gilded Drake Question
Dave
This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
to his hand.
We were confused if this could be done or not. Since the
hopped is no longer there as a legal target, does the drake
go to the graveyard immediately, or could Boomerang be played
in response to the activation of the hopper's ability and
return the drake to player A's hand before it goes to the yard?
Of something else?
- Dave
Gilded Drake
{1}{U}
Creature -- Drake
3/3
Flying
When Gilded Drake comes into play, choose one -- sacrifice Gilded
Drake; or exchange control of Gilded Drake and target creature an
opponent controls. If you can't make the exchange, sacrifice
Gilded Drake. This ability can't be countered. (This effect
doesn't end at end of turn.)
Anurid Brushhopper
{1}{G}{W}
Creature -- Beast
3/4
Discard two cards from your hand: Remove Anurid Brushhopper from
the game. Return it to play under its owner's control at end of
turn.
Boomerang
{U}{U}
Instant
Return target permanent to its owner's hand.
Lee Sharpe
> Hi all,
>
> This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
>
> Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
> Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
> ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
> by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
> to his hand.
>
> We were confused if this could be done or not. Since the
> hopped is no longer there as a legal target, does the drake
> go to the graveyard immediately, or could Boomerang be played
> in response to the activation of the hopper's ability and
> return the drake to player A's hand before it goes to the yard?
This is perfectly legal. You don't process the Drake's ability until it
resolves. Nothing illegal about returning it to your hand with Boomerang
before then.
--
Lee Sharpe, sha...@uiuc.edu
DCI Level 2 Judge
Chris Mattern
> Hi all,
>
> This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
>
> Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
> Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
> ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
> by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
> to his hand.
>
> We were confused if this could be done or not. Since the
> hopped is no longer there as a legal target, does the drake
> go to the graveyard immediately, or could Boomerang be played
> in response to the activation of the hopper's ability and
> return the drake to player A's hand before it goes to the yard?
Yes. Remember, it all goes on the stack, first in, last out.
A plays GD, nobody responds, it resolves and comes into play.
GD's comes-into-play triggered effect then goes on the stack
and A chooses to swap the Drak and the Brushhopper. Only
after that does A get priority. A passes. B activates
the Brushhopper's ability to remove it from the game,
and then passes. A, seeing that the Brushhopper will be
gone by the time the Drake's triggered ability resolves
and he will then have to sacrifice the Drake, casts
Boomerang on the Drake, and then passes. B passes.
Boomerang resolves, returning the Drake to A's hand.
Both players pass. Brushhopper's ability resolves,
removing it from the game. Both players pass. Drake's
triggered ability resolves. The only target of
the ability is gone, so it would normally be countered,
but it can't be countered, so it goes ahead (that's
why that phrase is there, incidentally). The swap fails
as at least one of the things to be swapped is gone, so
A must sacrifice the Drake. But the Drake is no
longer in play, so A can't sacrifice it. Nothing
happens.
Chris Mattern
David DeLaney
>Hi all,
>
>This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
>
>Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
>Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
>ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
>by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
>to his hand.
That's all fine. The Drake's ability is on the bottom of the stack, with
the Anurid's on top of it (since B responded to the GD ability with the
AB ability). A can Boomerang the Drake either in response to the AB ability
itself... or A can wait for the AB ability to resolve and remove the
creature, then add the Boomerang to the stack still on top of the GD ability.
In either of these cases the GD goes back to A's hand before its ability
can resolve, and its ability has No Effect on resolution. [Pop quiz: how
is this different from EVERY other targetted ability or spell in the game?]
>We were confused if this could be done or not. Since the
>hopped is no longer there as a legal target, does the drake
>go to the graveyard immediately, or could Boomerang be played
>in response to the activation of the hopper's ability and
>return the drake to player A's hand before it goes to the yard?
>Of something else?
The targetting legality of a spell or ability is normally only checked twice:
once on announcement, when you -must- choose legal target(s) or be unable to
play the spell / play the activated ability / keep the triggered ability on
the stack... and a second time as it starts to resolve, to see whether it
_will_ resolve, or will get countered. It's normally not ever checked in
between [though anything that tries to CHANGE the target will cause another
check, because the target can't change to a currently-illegal target].
So the Drake's ability checked on announcement that the Brushhopper was a
legal target. It doesn't care, while waiting on the stack to resolve, whether
it is or not. It will check again just before trying to resolve... and in
this case will find the Brushhopper is -then- not a legal target, and will
resolve and have No Effect, because it can't affect its illegal target _and_
because it can't exchange control of the two, and can't cause the Drake (now
also missing) to be sacrificed.
Anything that uses the stack can be responded to, for one - so the AB ability
can be responded to by the Boomerang. Also, anything on the stack _can't_
resolve until both players pass with it on top of the stack... and a player
that _can_ pass has priority, and could instead add something to the stack.
So A will also get a chance to add the Boomerang to the stack AFTER the AB
ability resolves, but before the Drake ability can.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
clan...@nf.sympatico.ca
"Dave" <i...@not.telling> wrote in message
news:YYSdnSRwZ9B...@giganews.com...
> Hi all,
>
> This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
>
an Earthquake for 3, and an Evacuation in response*
> Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
> Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
> ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
> by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
> to his hand.
Player A = not very smart to target the Hopper unless he wanted to force a
discard.
>
> We were confused if this could be done or not. Since the
> hopped is no longer there as a legal target, does the drake
> go to the graveyard immediately, or could Boomerang be played
> in response to the activation of the hopper's ability and
> return the drake to player A's hand before it goes to the yard?
Very little happens immediately in Magic. Only state-based effects and mana
abilities cannot be reposnded to (I may have forgotten something there
though). In response to the Hopper being activated, the Boomerang can be
played, and at this point the Hopper is still in play as a legal target.
Drake go bouncy, hopper go bye-bye. In fact, Boomeranging (sounds indecent)
your own Drake is a smart play in response to its own cip ability
Daniel W. Johnson
> Only state-based effects and mana
> abilities cannot be reposnded to (I may have forgotten something there
> though).
If you have a recent version of the (Comprehensive) Rules, you'll find a
complete list at 408.2.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
pano...@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
David DeLaney
><clan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Only state-based effects and mana
>> abilities cannot be reposnded to (I may have forgotten something there
>> though).
>
>If you have a recent version of the (Comprehensive) Rules, you'll find a
>complete list at 408.2.
It's actually easier to list what _can_ be responded to:
spells
nonmana activated abilities
nonmana triggered abilities
combat damage
408.2 tries to be a complete list of Everything Else, but there's probably
stuff that it leaves out just because nobody's ever been silly enough to ask
whether it uses the stack yet.
Anything that uses the stack can be responded to; anything that doesn't? Can't.
Zoe Stephenson
> Very little happens immediately in Magic. Only state-based effects and mana
> abilities cannot be reposnded to (I may have forgotten something there
> though).
Quick list:
Playing a land.
Turning a creature face-up.
Announcing spells, abilities and combat damage.
Declaring attackers/blockers.
Untap/phasing/cleanup/manaburn.
Mandatory draw step draw.
Ending/suspending effects special actions.
For the official answer, see 408.2.
--
-- zoe - Good to see you back again, by the way.
Dave
>
> "Dave" <i...@not.telling> wrote in message
> news:YYSdnSRwZ9B...@giganews.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > This came up in a casual multiplayer game yesterday.
> >
> *crosses fingers it doesn't involve 10 players at 3 life, 4 Platinum Angels,
> an Earthquake for 3, and an Evacuation in response*
>
> > Player A casts Gilded Drake and targets Player B's Anurid
> > Brushhopper. Player B responds by activating the brushhopper's
> > ability and removes it from the game. Play A then responded
> > by casting Boomerang and attempted to return the drake back
> > to his hand.
>
> Player A = not very smart to target the Hopper unless he wanted to force a
> discard.
That was pretty much it. Player B only had three lands in play
and two cards in his hand. Player A would either gain control
of the hopper which would have been a good thing, or force
Player B to discard the only two cards in his hand to return
the hopper (leaving him without enough cards to return it to
his hand again). It actually turned out to be a good play, even
though he lost his drake since we didn't rule it correctly.
- Dave
clan...@nf.sympatico.ca
"Zoe Stephenson" <zr...@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote in message
news:br1l9q$ah6$1...@pump1.york.ac.uk...
> clan...@nf.sympatico.ca sent:
>
>
> -- zoe - Good to see you back again, by the way.
Why thank you. Did I see you mentione Laurie in a post? How's he doing now?
Dave
Sorry. "return to hand" should have been "removed from game".
- Dave