first strike, new rules
Lori1450
sourse of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage" doesn't apply to creature
combat? What about other forms of creature removal, tapping, etc...
Is there a - new rules vs. old rules for dummy's - page out there?
Thanx, Lori
Ingo Warnke
: First strike still works the same under the new rules??
Yes.
: So " removing the
: sourse of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage" doesn't apply to creature
: combat?
It does apply. If there are any first striking creatures involved in combat,
there are *two* combat damage steps. If a creature without first strike that
blocked or was blocked by a first strike creature does not survive that step,
it will not be in play and thus not considered when 'normal' combat damage
goes on the stack. So a White Knight still wins against a Grizzly Bear in
combat.
Ingo Warnke
Alison Cheers
> First strike still works the same under the new rules??
Not really. But it still works 'as expected' under the new rules.
>So " removing the
>sourse of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage" doesn't apply to
creature
>combat?
It does apply. However, First Strike damage happens in a completely separate
step from normal damage. When you destroy a creature with your First Strike
damage, that creature hasn't put any damage on the stack yet. Although it
would still deal damage if you destroyed it after the damage was on the
stack, there isn't any yet.
>What about other forms of creature removal
Well, you need to know when you're using them. Here is the relevant section
of the Combat phase.
Declare Blockers step. At the beginning of this step, blockers are declared.
Then instants are legal. If you Shock a creature now, it won't get to deal
any damage at all.
First Strike damage step. At the beginning of this step, first strike damage
is 'fixed' on the stack. Then instants are legal. If you Shock a
first-strike creature now, it will still deal damage. Other creatures won't
deal damage if you kill them now.
Normal damage step. At the beginning of this step, damage from creatures
that didn't deal any in the First Strike step is 'fixed' on the stack. Then
instants are legal. Shocking creatures now is ineffective- they'll still
deal damage.
>tapping, etc...
No. Tapped creatures still deal damage. The old rule about this has been
completely removed.
> Is there a - new rules vs. old rules for dummy's - page out there?
Maybe...
--
Laurie Cheers
David DeLaney
Pretty much ... except that a) you have a chance to -respond to- combat
damage before it resolves and gets dealt to creatures ... and b) you
have a chance to do stuff _between_ first strike damage and normal combat
damage.
> So " removing the
>sourse of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage" doesn't apply to creature
>combat?
Er, yes it +does+. Note that combat damage doesn't go _onto_ the stack until
step 4 starts ... and if there's first strikers involved, _only_ first strikers
put their combat damage on the stack in "first strike combat damage step".
Other creatures have to -survive- to the repeated step to put their combat
damage on the stack (at the start of 4b) - if they get killed by first strike
combat damage, they don't _live_ long enough to do their own combat damage.
First strike combat damage and regular combat damage do _NOT_ go onto the
stack at the same time. Removing the source of damage-that-hasn't-been-
started-up-yet will quite handily "prevent" the damage from happening later.
It's removing the source of damage/ability-already-on-the-stack that doesn't
stop the damage...
Dave
--
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It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to se
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http://panacea.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ/ I WUV you in all CAPS! --K
Nick Tsakonas
> First strike still works the same under the new rules?? So " removing the
>sourse of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage" doesn't apply to creature
>combat? What about other forms of creature removal, tapping, etc...
> Is there a - new rules vs. old rules for dummy's - page out there?
> Thanx, Lori
"Removing the source of the damage doesn't get rid of the damage"
applies when the creature has ALREADY dealt the damage (Now the damage
is dealt like a spell is played and goes to the stack). When a
creature or more have first strike the damage is dealt in two phases:
First the damage from the FS creatures is dealt, it is resolved and
then the rest of the creatures deal damage. It's like tapping a
Prodigal Sorcerer and doing 1 damage to a 1/1 creature after it's
assigned as a blocker and before damages. The creature dies and
doesn't deal damage to anybody, because it's removed from the battle.