"Untap target land"
Christopher Null
Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Thanks.
-Chris
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Hedgehog
Christopher Null <URL:mailto:nu...@sirius.com> wrote:
> Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
> Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
> 9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
> 8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
No, of course not.
The above Druids do just what they say they do; they untap a target land.
That's *all*. Untapping a land does not suck mana back into it; it just
untaps it, allowing it to be tapped again.
> Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
The two have nothing to do with one anther (apart from both being to do
with Magic, of course).
> If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Usually, to allow you to get extra mana out of your own lands - tap for
mana, untap with druid, tap again. (Note that nowadays the untapping is
an instant-speed affect, so you can't use them to pull extra mana for
counterspells.)
--
Chris "electric hedg...@virgin.net" Dollin
"reaching out for mirrors hidden in the web" [Renaissance, "running hard"]
Phaedrus
In article <343FCF79...@sirius.com>,
Christopher Null <nu...@sirius.com> wrote:
>Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
>Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
>9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
No.
The mana-source abilities of lands work just like other abilities; you
pay their cost when you announce them, and their effect happens when they
resolve. (Mana sources are a bit unusual in that nothing can happen in between
those things; but that's beside the point here.) When you want a green mana
from a forest, you announce it--"I'm tapping this forest for mana." (Okay,
sane players don't, but technically you're _supposed_ to. :-) ) You pay the
cost of that ability--you tap the forest. The ability resolves--a green mana
appears.
Abilities don't work "in reverse", unless they specifically say they do.
In other words, you can't untap a forest to subtract a green mana from your
pool, and you can't untap a Prodigal Sorcerer to take a point of damage away
from something. (And even if it worked that way, untapping your _opponent's_
land still wouldn't work that way. The only time an ability with a cost works
is when its controller announces it, and pays that cost. You can't tap a land
your opponent controls for mana, you can't use an opponent's Prodigal Sorcerer
to poke something, etc.)
So, yes, you can use a Druid to untap an opponent's land. But no, you
can't prevent them from tapping their lands for mana, or suck mana out of their
pool, by doing that. In fact, untapping an opponent's land is generally doing
them a favor; now they can tap it for another point of mana if you want.
Finally, it looks like you may not quite understand the way a mana cost
is paid. The way you phrase it, it makes it sound like the opponent is saying
"Okay, I'm summoning this 9-mana creature; let me tap these nine forests to
pay its cost." You can never, ever, use other abilities (not even mana
sources) in the middle of announcing something and paying its cost. If you
want to summon a creature that costs 9 mana to cast, you have to already have
the 9 mana in your pool _before_ you announce it. So your opponent taps the
nine lands for mana, _then_ announces the creature.
>Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
No.
>If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Well, you generally use them to untap _your_ lands, so you can tap them
again for additional mana.
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Marcel Bollmann
Christopher Null schrieb:
> Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
> Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon
> a
> 9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>
> 8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
I'm not sure with it. I think, you can't untap your opponents land.
Perhaps you can, but its not the idea of the card.
First, the cards says it can untap target land, but when a land is
tapped for mana, that mana is in your/your opponents mana pool.
Untapping the land afterwards does not remove the mana from that mana
pool.
The idea of the card is to untap one of your lands after using it as a
mana source, so you may spend one more mana into a spell or a effect
this round.
--
Marcel Bollmann ==== mailto:boll...@cww.de
------------------------------------------------>
Ingo Kemper
On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 12:11:55 -0700, Christopher Null <nu...@sirius.com>
wrote:
>Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
>Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
>9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
No. Don't forget that a land and the mana pool are two entirely
different things. A land just has an ability that adds mana to its
controller's mana pool. If a player taps a land for mana, he/she is
using that lands' ability. Untapping that land will allow you to use
the ability again, but it will not "undo" the previous activation, so
the mana will still be in the mana pool.
>If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Well, it allows you to use that land again. If the untapped land can
produce mana then you can get an extra mana out of it, so the Ley
Druid works almost like a mana elf. (If the land can produce more than
one mana, maybe because there's a Wild Growth on it, you'll even get
_two_ more mana... This works also great with things like Lotus Vale.)
Or consider the "storage lands" that accumulate counters - you can
untap those with a druid should you unexpectedly need the mana.
You can also untap lands with other special abilities and use them
again. Untap a Thawing Glacier to search your library for yet another
bonus land. Untap a Heart of Yavimaya to hand out another +1/+1 bonus.
Basically you can use any land again.
Ingo Kemper
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__ _ __ __ __ __
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Walt Harris
Christopher Null wrote:
> Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
> Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon
> a
> 9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>
> 8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
You can untap one of your opponent's lands, however, it will not cause
themana burn. You can't interrupt a mana source and the mana is added
to the
mana pool from the time he tapped the land. All you'd be doing is
letting
him tap an additional mana source. Really not what you'd want. Besides
this, the mana is _spent_ immediately upon his announcing the spell is
being
cast. So when he says "I am casting foo...", the mana for that spell is
gone.
There is no time for you to interrupt that. Note you can counter the
spell,
but you can't stop the mana from being used.
> Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
Not really. Abeyance used to prevent anything with an activation cost.
Landfor instance generally has a T : in it's text block. You couldn't
tap the land because
anything before the : is an activation cost. What Tom Wylie and Bethmo
said
is that you can't prevent a mana source from being played. This does
contracdict
the activation cost thing, but because they are the "rules", they
supposedly know
what they are talking about... anyway, you can't interrupt, nor can you
prevent,
a mana source.
> If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Let's say I have 3 Forests in play, no other lands... I have a Ley
Druid. I cantap my three forests, that adds GGG to my mana pool. I can
now activate the
Druid untapping a Forest. I can then "retap" that forest for G
That gives me GGGG in my mana pool. I can now cast say, Stampeding
Wildebeest
on my third turn for example.
> Thanks.
>
> -Chris
Welcome
Joachim Tabaczek
In article <343FCF79...@sirius.com>, Christopher Null <nu...@sirius.com> writes:
|> Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
|> Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
|> 9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
|> 8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
No. First, you can't use one of the Druids in between your opponent
tapping his lands and playing the creature -- it's his turn; he gets
to start all spell stacks. [He _can_ `yield priority' to you if he
wants to, but if he doesn't, you have to wait. You can respond to
his Summon spell with the Druid if you want to.]
Second, assuming that he does yield priority to you: untapping one
of his lands won't remove mana from his mana pool. He now has one
more untapped land and still 9 mana in his pool, so he can still
cast the creature.
|> Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
No, not at all. What Abeyance used to do was to prevent the use of
most mana source abilities since almost all of them had activation
costs. [This has just now been changed to make mana sources completely
unpreventable.]
|> If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
Usually, you use the Druids on your own lands -- so you can tap them
again and get one more mana. [Or use a Maze of Ith on two creatures
instead of one. Or use Forbidden Lore twice. And so on.]
Joachim
Finn E. Theodorsen
Christopher Null <nu...@sirius.com> wrote:
>Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
>Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
>9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
>Is this along the lines of the Abeyance ruling?
>If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
First, Abeyance no longer prevents mana from being drawn,
only summoning sickness and not paying the cost/upkeep of
the mana effect does. (NEW RULING!!!)
Second, untapping lands doesnt put mana back into them
(just as untapping creatures doesn remove them from attack)
He still has nine mana, and can now even get a tenth by
tapping the land again.
They are good for extra mana for you. Lets say you have
only one forest and two island and a ley druid, and want to
cast a wolverine pack (cost GG2). Tap all land (giving GUU)
untap forest with druid, and tap it again (now you have GGUU),
spend it all on the wolverines. Even better if the land untapped
has wild growth on it, or if it is a land with a very special ability
(Like e.g. Maze of Ith), otherwise stick with elves, they are cheaper
to cast.
Finn E. Theodorsen///the...@danbbs.dk///AtCbM///Legend#219605
Homepage: http://www.danbbs.dk/~finnet/index.htm
David DeLaney
nu...@sirius.com (Christopher Null) says:
>Cards like Ley Druid and Juniper Order Druid have this ability.
>Question: can I untap my opponent's land just as he is about to summon a
>9 mana creature with all his lands, then untap one to take him back to
>8, then stick him with 8 mana burn?
Um: no.
Opponent has already paid the cost of the land's mana-making ability by
tapping it. Ley Druid doesn't _say_ it can counter the ability of a land,
so it can't; all it can do is untap the land. Untapping the land doesn't
"automagically suck the mana back into the land". Plus which there's
no time between when opponent taps his lands for mana, and when opponent
casts his Summon spell [_usually_] when you can play an instant like Ley Druid's
ability. [Yes, older versions say to play it as an interrupt. They're currently
miswritten.]
>If the above scenario is not the case, what's the ability good for?
It's good for untapping your _own_ lands, so you can use them -again- to
get _more_ mana out of them, or another use of whatever other tap-to-do-this
ability they have.
Dave
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