>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>creature do its attacking?
During the creature's controller's main phase.
Cheers
Ng, Kai Koon
University of Tasmania, Australia
email : kk...@postoffice.utas.edu.au
"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is
selling something"
Dread Pirate Roberts, 'The Princess Bride'
During the creature's controller's attack phase.
This occurs anytime (during the controller's main phase) he wants.
Brian /-|-\
--
Sticks and stones might not break my bones,
But words will always hurt me.
<URL= ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bc/bcash/bcash.html>
>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>creature do its attacking?
>PG-17
>Pat George
When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
-Chris
Tachyon
"Remember just because you are paranoid, that doesn't mean that they
aren't out to get you"
Whenever your opponent declares an attack. It attacks woth the rest of his
critters.
Mike
--
"It's not that chocolates are a substitute for love. Love is a substitute
for chocolate. Chocolate, let's face it, never has a headache."
GS d? H->+++ s:+ g? !au>* p0 a- w+ v*(-) c+++(++++) UL++++ p--- L++>+++
E+ N++ K- W--->! M-- !V -po+ Y(+) t+(++) !5 !j R+@ G++('''') tv b+++
D++(+++) B--- e+ u--- h-- !f(+) r:~( !n y+
hello,
>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>creature do its attacking?
the way i play it is that if i have a ni out i tell the other player
to let me know just before is attack phase. then i use the ni. whenever
you use the ni all such attacks happen during the opponents attack phase.
bye
NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
- toby robison Critical Paths, Inc. p01...@psilink.com
Yes, it in fact does. If the creature taps or becomes otherwise unable to
attack before main phase is over, the opponent need not attack; if the
creature remains able to attack throughout the main phase, opponent *must*
declare an attack, and *must* declare the Nettled creature as an attacker,
before he can end his main phase.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney d...@panacea.phys.utk.edu "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. Disclaimer: IMHO; VRbeableURLAP
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Yes. Creatures cannot attack "on their own"; only *declared* attackers
actually attack.
>If FESTIVAL is played, will this automatically destroy the target
>creature being nettled?
Yes.
>ATTACK? If FESTIVAL is played, will this automatically destroy the target
festival + ni would kill a creature. festival + siren's call would
kill all creatures.
>INSTILL ENERGY untap the creature and the DECLARE AN ATTACK again?
you must declare all attacks simultaneously. you can not attack
untap attack.
>>>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>>>creature do its attacking?
>> When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
>>proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
>>creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
>NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
>dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
>creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
Nettling Imp - 2B - 1/1 - Summon Imp
T: Force a particular one of opponent's non-wall creatures to attack. If
target creature cannot attack, it is killed at end of turn. This ability
can only be used during opponen't turn, before the attack. May not be
used on creatures summoned this turn.
NOTE: It does say FORCE...to attack. It also says IF...CANNOT attack.
Therefore creature MUST attack if able.
BIG QUESTION.
In order for a creature to attack, DOES THE CONTROLLER HAVE TO DECLARE THE
ATTACK? If FESTIVAL is played, will this automatically destroy the target
creature being nettled? If not, does that mean the creature in fact
attacks regardless of the attack phase declaration? Could I then, with
INSTILL ENERGY untap the creature and the DECLARE AN ATTACK again?
HELP!
-Chris
--
>>DATE: 26 May 1995 06:08:36 GMT
>>FROM: Christopher Robert Durston <umdu...@cc.umanitoba.ca>
>>
>>In <3q2mh6$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> nofea...@aol.com (NoFearGuy1) writes:
>>
>>>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>>>creature do its attacking?
>>>PG-17
>>>Pat George
>>
>> When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
>>proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
>>creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
>> -Chris
>NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
>dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
>creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
>- toby robison Critical Paths, Inc. p01...@psilink.com
YES!!! Lemme read the card to you....
T: Force a particular one of opponent's non-wall creatures to
attack. If target creature cannot attack, it is killed at end of turn.
{more about timing, etc.}
Key words in above: force, attack. It HAS TO. There is NO CHOICE
involved. The only way around it is to render the creature incapable of
attacking...say...tapping a tim or not paying brainwash cost or
something. You HAVE to attack with the thing. That is what "force
creature to attack" means.
Common sense would dictate we have to have an attack phase if a creature
is to attack... <yeesh>
-Chris
: NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
: dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
: creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
I agree with Toby. For example, if a Nettling Imp taps to make a Time
Elemental EITHER attack or die, what would you do?
: - toby robison Critical Paths, Inc. p01...@psilink.com
--
Mike Stern
ster...@netcom.com
"A waste is such a terrible thing to mind"
Anonymous Garbage Dump Supervisor
: >>DATE: 26 May 1995 06:08:36 GMT
: >>FROM: Christopher Robert Durston <umdu...@cc.umanitoba.ca>
: >>
: >>In <3q2mh6$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> nofea...@aol.com (NoFearGuy1) writes:
: >>
: >>>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
: >>>creature do its attacking?
: >>>PG-17
: >>>Pat George
: >>
: >> When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
: >>proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
: >>creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
: >> -Chris
: >NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
: >dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
: >creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
: >- toby robison Critical Paths, Inc. p01...@psilink.com
: YES!!! Lemme read the card to you....
: T: Force a particular one of opponent's non-wall creatures to
: attack. If target creature cannot attack, it is killed at end of turn.
: {more about timing, etc.}
: Key words in above: force, attack. It HAS TO. There is NO CHOICE
: involved. The only way around it is to render the creature incapable of
: attacking...say...tapping a tim or not paying brainwash cost or
: something. You HAVE to attack with the thing. That is what "force
: creature to attack" means.
Disregard my previous reply. obviously an abberation due to lack of
(something, probably chocolate) :)... next time, I'll try to RTFC before
I write something down. Nettle those TE's!
: Common sense would dictate we have to have an attack phase if a creature
: is to attack... <yeesh>
: -Chris
I really apologize for this one. I've tried very carefully to keep my
relatively knowledeglable postings separated from my questions and
speculations. This is what I missed:
If a creature is forced to attack (due to a spell like Siren's Call or an
effect like the Nettling Imp) the player must declare an attack that
turn and send out the affected creature(s) if it is legal to do so.
[PPG Page 224]
I relied on two other statements: One, that you (normally) do not have to
declare an attack (but the above statement overrules it); and the other:
Nettling Imp:
{rulings quoted in part...}
Creature does not have to attack immediately, but it must attack if it is
not prevented from doing so (by being tapped already, by being tapped
for a special ability afterwards, or due to some effect). If it does
not attack, it is destroyed. [PPG Page 224]
This implies (to me) that if I have a nettled creature that in fact cannot
legally attack (it's tapped, it's a sea serpent and you have no islands,
etc.) that I still am not forced to declare an attack. But my original
posting did not say this. (And I may still be wrong about whether this
case prevents me from having to attack.)
In all such cases of course the the Imp will die.
>In <301058072...@psilink.com> "Cpaths" <p01...@psilink.com> writes:
>>>DATE: 26 May 1995 06:08:36 GMT
>>>FROM: Christopher Robert Durston <umdu...@cc.umanitoba.ca>
>>>
>>>In <3q2mh6$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> nofea...@aol.com (NoFearGuy1) writes:
>>>
>>>>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
>>>>creature do its attacking?
>>>>PG-17
>>>>Pat George
>>>
>>> When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
>>>proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
>>>creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
>>> -Chris
>>NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
>>dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
>>creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
>>- toby robison Critical Paths, Inc. p01...@psilink.com
>YES!!! Lemme read the card to you....
> T: Force a particular one of opponent's non-wall creatures to
>attack. If target creature cannot attack, it is killed at end of turn.
>{more about timing, etc.}
>Key words in above: force, attack. It HAS TO. There is NO CHOICE
>involved. The only way around it is to render the creature incapable of
>attacking...say...tapping a tim or not paying brainwash cost or
>something. You HAVE to attack with the thing. That is what "force
>creature to attack" means.
>Common sense would dictate we have to have an attack phase if a creature
>is to attack... <yeesh>
> -Chris
The creature has to attack if it is able. However, it's controller doesn't
have to go out of his way to make it. IE he can tap it to use a special
ability first, not pay a brainwash cost, not sac islands to leviathan, and
then regenerate the creature. However, if nothing is keeping him from
attacking, he must.
--
/ Quillian '94 \
| ac...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu |
|"She's got...all the money...money couldn't buy..." |
\ --They Might Be Giants, "She's Actual Size" /
>This implies (to me) that if I have a nettled creature that in fact cannot
>legally attack (it's tapped, it's a sea serpent and you have no islands,
>etc.) that I still am not forced to declare an attack. But my original
>posting did not say this. (And I may still be wrong about whether this
>case prevents me from having to attack.)
This seems like an overly complicated approach to this whole thing. If I
force your creature to attack, you must have an attack phase. We all
agree here. If the creature begin forced to attack can't, it can't. In
such situations, common sense says it really doesn't matter if you attack
or not...the thing can't, it dies. If you want to pound on me with your
other stuff, go right ahead.
Sum it up: if the nettled creature can attack, it has to, resulting in
you haveing to have an attack phase. If it can't attack, do whatever you
want.
>In all such cases of course the the Imp will die.
?????
And exactly why would it do that?
>The creature has to attack if it is able. However, it's controller doesn't
>have to go out of his way to make it. IE he can tap it to use a special
>ability first, not pay a brainwash cost, not sac islands to leviathan, and
>then regenerate the creature. However, if nothing is keeping him from
>attacking, he must.
>--
Right on, man. Simple and to the point. Nice to see. :)
-Chris
This is correct: if the Nettled creature is not *able* to attack, then
its controller is not forced to declare an attack phase. (The controller
is *also* not forced to, although he or she _may_, pay any _costs_ required
to make the Nettled creature able to attack. So if a Leviathan is Nettled,
its controller can simply refuse to sacrifice two Islands and have the
Leviathan die peacefully at end of turn, and does not have to declare an
attack at all in this case.)
: >>>When I use the NI to make a creature attack, when, exactly, does this
: >>>creature do its attacking?
: >>>PG-17
: >>>Pat George
: >>
: >> When your opponent decides to start his attack phase. Everything
: >>proceeds as normal, except your opponent MUST attack, and MUST use that
: >>creature in his attack. If it can't, it dies.
: >> -Chris
: >NO!!! your opponent DOES NOT HAVETO ATTACK! The nettled creature
: >dies if the opponent does not attack, or if there is an attack and the
: >creature does not attack, but the NI does not force you to attack.
: YES!!! Lemme read the card to you....
: T: Force a particular one of opponent's non-wall creatures to
: attack. If target creature cannot attack, it is killed at end of turn.
: {more about timing, etc.}
: Key words in above: force, attack. It HAS TO. There is NO CHOICE
: involved. The only way around it is to render the creature incapable of
: attacking...say...tapping a tim or not paying brainwash cost or
: something. You HAVE to attack with the thing. That is what "force
: creature to attack" means.
: Common sense would dictate we have to have an attack phase if a creature
: is to attack... <yeesh>
: -Chris
THE INTERPRETATION of CHRIS gets my fullest Support ! Cause its right !
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Yo ! ya jU$T RE(E|vE|) a MeSSagE fr0m ThE eaZy $|DE of L|vE ...
The Chief of Relief ... ea...@informatik.uni-bremen.de
Connect to ... http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~easy
---------------------------------------------------------------
>THE INTERPRETATION of CHRIS gets my fullest Support ! Cause its right !
Merci much. ;)
-Chris
Hope I've helped muddy the waters a bit..
Is it possible to declare an attack phase but then not attack with
anything? Here are a two situations I could see this coming up in:
Yes, you may declare 0 attackers in an attack.
1) My opponent has a Flood in play. I declare my attack phase, he then
taps all of my big creatures. All of my untapped stuff will die if I
attack with it, so I clearly want to hold back.
If you declare an attack, and your opponent plays fast effects, you are
not committed to the attack. Once the fast effects have resolved, you
can do something else instead. Or you may attack with 0 creatures.
2) I have creatures with tap abilities, my opponent has a Nettling Imp
out. I want to tap one of my creatures (Birds of Paradise, for example),
so that I can use the special ability, but I don't want him nettling it
afterwards.
You can declare an attack. If they don't Nettle, you can declare 0
attackers, and then when the combat is over (probably very quickly ...)
you can use the tap-ability safely.
Of course, opponent may Nettle when you declare the attack. In which
case, you'll have to attack with your special creature, or lose it;
possibly both.
One other question, can you use Nettling Imp after your opponent
declares his attack (but before attackers are chosen)?
Yes.
That's the way we play it around here but I'd like to hear other
opinions.
The Rulings Summaries are your friends.
Actually, I'd really like to see a phase by phase breakdown of the
attack phase --
Yea verily, most friendly of you they are.
I think it needs to be addressed with some of the new
cards out there (Flood, Twiddle, etc.--what were they thinking
making these common?!?). Here's our "house rules."
Declare Attack Phase
Fast Effects 1
Well ... yes; but (as above) if the opponent responds with fast effects,
you can abandon the attack.
Choose Attackers
Zero or more. Tap attackers [unless they don't tap to attack.] You
declare attacking bands at this stage.
Fast Effects 2
Yep.
Assign Blockers
Fast Effects 3
And note that removing a blocker does not free up the blocked attacker.
Farrel's Mantel and Zealot fast-effects run here.
First Strike Damage Assigned
First Strike Damage Prevention
Yep.
Normal Damage Assigned
Normal Damage Prevention
Yep.
Fast Effects 4
Nope. No such stage.
End of Combat Effects (things like Venom)
And any necessary Damage Prevention thereof. Time to check for mana burn
and player death, too.
--
Regards, | ``"I can't suit myself," said Weinbaum, a little petulantly.
Kers. | "I work for the Government".'' - Blish, "The Quincunx of Time".
: 1) My opponent has a Flood in play. I declare my attack phase, he then taps all
: of my big creatures. All of my untapped stuff will die if I attack with it, so
: I clearly want to hold back.
You may, since he has to use the Flood before attackers are declared, you
may declare an attack w/ 0 creatures if you want.
: 2) I have creatures with tap abilities, my opponent has a Nettling Imp out. I
: want to tap one of my creatures (Birds of Paradise, for example), so that I
: can use the special ability, but I don't want him nettling it afterwards.
Simply declare an attack w/ 0 creatures (sometimes called a null
attack). The Imps ability cannot be used after your attack phase.
: One other question, can you use Nettling Imp after your opponent declares his
: attack (but before attackers are chosen)? That's the way we play it around here
: but I'd like to hear other opinions. Actually, I'd really like to see a phase
: by phase breakdown of the attack phase--I think it needs to be addressed with
: some of the new cards out there (Flood, Twiddle, etc.--what were they thinking
: making these common?!?). Here's our "house rules."
: Declare Attack Phase
: Fast Effects 1
These two above items should be "declare intention to attack", this
occurs before the attack phase. It is important becuae it is the last
opportunity to cast fast effects before the attack begins. Its also the
last chance to clear the mana pool before the attack.
: Choose Attackers
: Fast Effects 2
: Assign Blockers
: Fast Effects 3
: First Strike Damage Assigned
: First Strike Damage Prevention
: Normal Damage Assigned
: Normal Damage Prevention
: Fast Effects 4
I don't know of any FE phase after damage prevention.
: End of Combat Effects (things like Venom)
--
Kyle
nk...@uhunix3.uhcc.hawaii.edu
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
| 1) My opponent has a Flood in play. I declare my attack phase, he then taps all
| of my big creatures. All of my untapped stuff will die if I attack with it, so
| I clearly want to hold back.
Well, if he does stuff like this (which is legal), it backs you up to before
you declared an attack. So you can do other things or decide to never declare
an attack (if that is legal -- ie, you haven't been nettled or something).
It is legal to declare an attack with no creatures. This will force mana pools
to empty.
| 2) I have creatures with tap abilities, my opponent has a Nettling Imp out. I
| want to tap one of my creatures (Birds of Paradise, for example), so that I
| can use the special ability, but I don't want him nettling it afterwards.
Declare an empty attack, then use the creatures. Works fine.
| One other question, can you use Nettling Imp after your opponent declares his
| attack (but before attackers are chosen)? That's the way we play it around here
| but I'd like to hear other opinions. Actually, I'd really like to see a phase
| by phase breakdown of the attack phase--I think it needs to be addressed with
| some of the new cards out there (Flood, Twiddle, etc.--what were they thinking
| making these common?!?). Here's our "house rules."
| Declare Attack Phase
| Fast Effects 1
| Choose Attackers
| Fast Effects 2
This isn't quite right. When you declare an attack, it works like this:
"I'm going to attack now unless you want to do something." If they want
to do something, you are still in your MAIN PHASE, not in the attack phase.
If they don't want to do anything, you procede immediately to choosing
attackers. The 'fast effects 1' phast listed above doesn't happen.
Yes, they can 'back you up' so they can nettle your creatures when you announce
that you are trying to attack.
--
+------------------------+----------------------------+
| Mike Marcelais | m...@alphatronix.com |
| Moonstone Dragon | Magic: The Gathering Judge |
| -==(UDIC)==- | Author of ChrHack 2.3 |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Yes. [Unless one or more of your creatures has been "forced to" attack and
is able to attack when you declare your attack; then you *must* declare them
as attackers.]
>1) My opponent has a Flood in play. I declare my attack phase, he then taps all
>of my big creatures. All of my untapped stuff will die if I attack with it, so
>I clearly want to hold back.
Sure. You can even say "Well, since we backed up to do fast effects, we're still
in my main phase" and never even try again to declare your attack that turn.
>2) I have creatures with tap abilities, my opponent has a Nettling Imp out. I
>want to tap one of my creatures (Birds of Paradise, for example), so that I
>can use the special ability, but I don't want him nettling it afterwards.
Yes, you can do this. However, opponent can say "Wait - before you declare
your attack, I want to use fast effects. Hmm. I Nettle your Birds..."
>One other question, can you use Nettling Imp after your opponent declares his
>attack (but before attackers are chosen)?
There is no "space" there. But you can say "Wait - *before you attack*, I want
to use this here fast effect". If you do so, this actually backs play up to
before the attack is declared, during player-whose-turn-it-is's main phase.
>Declare Attack Phase
>Fast Effects 1
>Choose Attackers
Almost. It's actually
i) Declare you want to attack
Anyone can use fast effects first [this leaves you still in main phase]
If someone uses fast effects, you can return to i) when they're done, or
go on with your main phase; if no-one wants to use fast effects, go to ii).
ii) Declare actual attack; declare-attackers step, tap attackers.
[etc.]