5:15 EDT National report -- FINALS ARE SET
Michael John Falkner
George Baxter (G/W Titania's Song, etc.) over Long (Stasis/Kismet lock)
3 games to 2.
He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
So both Stasis decks fall in the semis...
==========================================================================
Mike Falkner, mfal...@csd.uwm.edu Milwaukee, Wisconsin
"The Electric Youth Renegade" D.G.I.F. #10769
WWW: http://www.uwm.edu/~mfalkner No quotes. (No room!! =))
==========================================================================
Canticle
: mfal...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Michael John Falkner) wrote in article
<4rp9g1$2...@uwm.edu>...
: George Baxter (G/W Titania's Song, etc.) over Long (Stasis/Kismet lock)
: 3 games to 2.
I thought Stasis might see a resurgence w/ Alliances. In the hands of a
competent player, a Blue/White deck is a deadly, effective tool, capable
of blocking, stopping, or defending against anything an opponent might do.
The drawback has always been lack of sufficient offense/lock potential.
The Stasis/Kismet lock w/ Storm Cauldron and other Alliances cards (Exile,
Reinforcements, etc.) and Blue cards (False Demise has great potential) is
an example of this.
As for Green/White Titania's Song? Deadly as well...a friend of mine in
Winipeg has one he uses a lot and it's damn effective...he hasn't be able
to make it out to many tournaments, unfortunately.
: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept that
is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player. Hopefully, this means that
Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2 White/Blue
and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles. I'd
like to see the top 8 though).
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Jeff Franzmann ~ All the white horses have gone ahead
~ Campaign Outfitters Netrep ~ I tell you that I'll always
~ Editor in Chief, CPI ~ Want you near
~Winnipeg, Manitona ~ You say that things change
~ CANADA ~ My dear...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Campaign Outfitters Homepage: http://www.aratar.mb.ca/~campaign
Canticle Publishing Homepage : http://www.aratar.mb.ca/~canticle
A Place to Play
In <01bb6c87.15c90160$2db270cc@jefffran> "Canticle" <cant...@aratar.mb.ca>
writes:
>: mfal...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Michael John Falkner) wrote in article
><4rp9g1$2...@uwm.edu>...
>
>: George Baxter (G/W Titania's Song, etc.) over Long (Stasis/Kismet lock)
>: 3 games to 2.
>
>I thought Stasis might see a resurgence w/ Alliances. In the hands of a
>competent player, a Blue/White deck is a deadly, effective tool, capable
>of blocking, stopping, or defending against anything an opponent might do.
>The drawback has always been lack of sufficient offense/lock potential.
>The Stasis/Kismet lock w/ Storm Cauldron and other Alliances cards (Exile,
>Reinforcements, etc.) and Blue cards (False Demise has great potential) is
>an example of this.
>
>As for Green/White Titania's Song? Deadly as well...a friend of mine in
>Winipeg has one he uses a lot and it's damn effective...he hasn't be able
>to make it out to many tournaments, unfortunately.
I'll be hitting him up for a listing of his deck contents. So far, it
sounds identical to my G/W Creatureless Song deck that has performed so well
around here. It's performance level soared as more and more opponents
started playing Necrodecks (28-1 vs Necro to date), and now there is
National proof that it can hold it's own against other decks as well. I
also hope I can get a run down on exactly how that B/R Necro did so well
against it. If I were in his shoes, I'd have been overjoyed at having to go
against Necro in the finals. Needless to say, I'm surprised at the outcome.
>
>: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
>: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
>
>Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept
that
>is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good
player
>with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player. Hopefully, this means
that
>Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2
White/Blue
>and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles.
I'd
>like to see the top 8 though).
As would I. I'd also be very interested in what percentage of all the
starting decks were Necro-variants. If an inordinate percentage of the
competitors were using Necrodecks, as many predicted...and this is the
result...I'd venture to say Necro has been dethroned, and will continue
to fall.
-Uncle
James Grahame
Canticle <cant...@aratar.mb.ca> wrote:
>mfal...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Michael John Falkner) wrote:
>
>: George Baxter (G/W Titania's Song, etc.) over Long (Stasis/Kismet lock)
>: 3 games to 2.
>
>I thought Stasis might see a resurgence w/ Alliances. In the hands of a
>competent player, a Blue/White deck is a deadly, effective tool, capable
>of blocking, stopping, or defending against anything an opponent might do.
>The drawback has always been lack of sufficient offense/lock potential.
>The Stasis/Kismet lock w/ Storm Cauldron and other Alliances cards (Exile,
>Reinforcements, etc.) and Blue cards (False Demise has great potential) is
>an example of this.
Perhaps somebody who watched it could tell us: did the Stasis decks
use Storm Cauldron? Or Exile? Or any Alliances cards other than Ivory
Gargoyle? ;-)
>: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
>: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
>
>Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept that
>is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
>with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player.
Well, he won the finals 3-0, so he'll be called "good" now. Nice
to see Place, Long and Baxter up there, too.
>Hopefully, this means that
>Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2 White/Blue
>and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles. I'd
>like to see the top 8 though).
Ditto. But you should know that the Necro had some red in it.
Somebody had to be playing red, after all. ;-)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~ Jeff Franzmann ~ All the white horses have gone ahead
>~ Campaign Outfitters Netrep ~ I tell you that I'll always
>~ Editor in Chief, CPI ~ Want you near
>~Winnipeg, Manitona ~ You say that things change
>~ CANADA ~ My dear...
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is it just my terminal, or does that signature look badly tabdamaged
to you, too?
James
Morrie Mullins
ja3g...@barrow.uwaterloo.ca (James Grahame) wrote:
>Canticle <cant...@aratar.mb.ca> wrote:
>>mfal...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Michael John Falkner) wrote:
<snip>
>>: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
>>: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
>>
>>Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around..it's a neat concept that
>>is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
>>with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player.
>
> Well, he won the finals 3-0, so he'll be called "good" now. Nice
>to see Place, Long and Baxter up there, too.
Actually, I think Dennis was recognized as "good" when he took second in
the type 2 nationals last year vs. Chip Hogan. But given the MtG
community's propensity for only remembering the names of the winners of the
last 3 major tournaments, it doesn't surprise me that he had to work
his way back into the spotlight. It surprises me even less that he
managed to do it in such a huge tournament.:-)
After Dennis booted me out of the elimination round of the regionals in
Pitt. (shameless self-plug!), he described the Necro deck he sometimes ran
to me (in that tournament he was running g/w erniegeddon, I ran necro, and
he whomped me with Dervishes two games straight). I wonder if he's still
running the same land/hand thing he described then; also, I'm not surprised
that he was running it b/r, since one of the suggestions he had on how to
improve my deck was to add bolts to take care of dervishes.:-)
He's a damned good player, and the twenty minutes it took him to kick my
butt, along with the fifteen or so minutes he took afterwards to talk to me
about the game, sideboards, etc., taught me a helluva lot about Magic and
made me into a better player.
Dennis, congrats, man!
Morrie
morrie....@ssc.msu.edu
IQJeff
According to Bethmo, 36% of the starting field for Nationals (not
including the whole Open thingy) were using Necro decks. There were five
Necro decks in the final sixteen.
As for the Stasis deck...no Storm Cauldron, no Exile....no Disenchants!
Would you believe the only white card used in the main deck was Kismet?
These Stasis decks are like nothing you've ever seen. Let's just say that
Force of Will certainly didn't hurt. (My shameless plug is that the deck
contents for the final four decks will be in the August issue of InQuest,
but I'm sure netland will have that info long before then.)
Oh, and for those who are wondering, Dennis Bentley is NOT a fluke. He was
the runner-up for the Type I National championship last year, he's
finished in the top 32 at all three Pro Tours (and the top sixteen in two
of them), and he consistently wins the major tourneys in the Rochester
area.
Dennis won because a) his deck was strong, b) he got luck when he needed
it, and c) because he is an incredible player. He can adapt to playing
against any type of deck immediately, and simply put, he knows what he's
doing.
Anyone who competed at Nationals will tell you that Dennis deserves to be
the national champion. And besides...you gotta respect a guy who has the
guts to play Necro without the "necessary" Disks or Drain Life's...
Jeff Hannes
Games Editor, InQuest Magazine
IQJ...@aol.com
Chris Otwell
> >: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
> >: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
> >
> >is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
> >with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player.
>
> Well, he won the finals 3-0, so he'll be called "good" now. Nice
> to see Place, Long and Baxter up there, too.
>
> >Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2 White/Blue
> >and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles. I'd
> >like to see the top 8 though).
Necroshit decks are finally going to get the Axe. Baxter was CHEESED in
the finals. Necro's restriction must now be guarenteed.
Chris
---
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Christopher E. Otwell Home Phone#: 392-6782
Work Phone#s: 528-3606, 528-3609, 576-6957
Email Addresses: otw...@rmtc.central.sun.com otw...@elecdrms.com
cvan...@freenet.vcu.edu
>
> RE: 5:15 EDT NATIONAL REPORT -- FINALS ARE SET
>
> Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc
> Post a followup article to newsgroup(s)
> From: "Canticle" <cant...@aratar.mb.ca>
> Send e-mail reply to: "Canticle"
> Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 23:32:25 -0500
> Organization: Canticle Publishing Inc.
>
>
>
>: mfal...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (Michael John Falkner) wrote in article
><4rp9g1$2...@uwm.edu>...
<snip>
>with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player. Hopefully, this means that
>Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2 White/Blue
>and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles. I'd
>like to see the top 8 though).
Actually the Necro was a R/B necro w/o Disks or Drains...
>
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~ Jeff Franzmann ~ All the white horses have gone ahead
>~ Campaign Outfitters Netrep ~ I tell you that I'll always
>~ Editor in Chief, CPI ~ Want you near
>~Winnipeg, Manitona ~ You say that things change
>~ CANADA ~ My dear...
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Campaign Outfitters Homepage: http://www.aratar.mb.ca/~campaign
>Canticle Publishing Homepage : http://www.aratar.mb.ca/~canticle
--
*****************************************************************************
Colin Van Ostern | The best trick the Devil ever pulled
Richmond, VA USA | was when he convinced the World
vano...@gsgis.k12.va.us | that he did not exsist
*****************************************************************************
Jim Dougan
: Necroshit decks are finally going to get the Axe. Baxter was CHEESED in
: the finals. Necro's restriction must now be guarenteed.
: Chris
You know, this type of knee-jerk response is *erally* lame....
From another post, we have learned that:
36 percent of decks were Necro at the start of the tournament...
5 Necro decks made the top 16 (31 percent)
1 Necro deck made the top 4 (25 percent)
This hardly looks like "Necro Dominance" to me - the percentage of
Necro decks in the tournet dropped consistently over the course of play.
Add to this the fact that the winning Necro was NOT a standard necro
deck (in the absence of discs and drains and the presence of a second
color) this REALLY looks like necro FAILED to dominate.
On top of this, the three other decks in the final 4 sound like very
interesting, creative decks - and are *not* the type of deck one would
expect in a necro-dominated environment.
IMHO, the results tell us exactly why necro/hymn should *not* be restricted.
Necro did not dominate the tourney.
-- Jim
IQJeff
I think before anybody starts going off about how Baxter got cheesed or
how Necro decks must be curtailed, there's one minor detail you all should
know:
Dennis didn't cast a Necropotence in ANY of his three games against Baxter
and he only got it off successfully ONCE in six games against Place (in
the semi's). So you still want to tell me Baxter got cheesed by
Necropotence?
How about the fact that Dennis is a great player who had the guts to play
a deck that was very light on what most people would consider 'defense'.
One Shatter in the sideboard was his only method of killing artifacts, and
he had no way of dealing with enchantments (save Dystopia for Green and
White). Yet not only did he win, he won often and he won convincingly.
He used everyone's preconceptions of what a Necro deck SHOULD be to take
just about all of his opponent's off-guard. Example: twice Baxter didn't
Divine Offering because he was waiting for the Disk to come out. You
should have seen the look on his face when he found out Dennis wasn't
playing with any Disks.
If you feel the need to go off on a card, how about Hymn to Tourach? It's
probably the card that won Dennis the most games. (Gee...are you really
surprised?) But even so, there were plenty of other types of decks that
did well. The Hymn is a great card, but it hardly dominated the Nationals
like Land Tax had been doing in earlier tournaments (before its
restriction).
Canticle
: jdo...@titan.iwu.edu (Jim Dougan) wrote in article
<4rrlqg$9...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
: : Necroshit decks are finally going to get the Axe. Baxter was CHEESED
in
: : the finals. Necro's restriction must now be guarenteed.
: : Chris
Uh....yeah. Right.
: You know, this type of knee-jerk response is *erally* lame....
Its really lame too :) (sorry, couldn't resist). Seriously though, players
in Winnipeg LONG ago gave up on Necrodecks as the deck of choice. After
the Manitoba/N.Ontario Regionals, where the Type II portion of the tourney
was won by Green/White (I placed 2nd with Necropotence as did third place)
and the overall tournament was won by Red/Black, many people just swore
off Necropotence. I myself swore I'd never play a potence deck again...too
boring, too easy to crush in many ways.
The last few tournaments, Necropotence decks have been squashed flat in
numerous ways by numerous deck designs. My own Black/Blue Pox deck,
Green/White Erhnamgeddon decks, Red weenies, and several others. You see,
if %50 of the people in a tournament are playing Necropotence, it makes
sense that they will dominate.
: On top of this, the three other decks in the final 4 sound like very
: interesting, creative decks - and are *not* the type of deck one would
: expect in a necro-dominated environment.
That Black/Red Necro isn't the only variation which works...around these
parts, a White/Black Necropotence/Enduring Renewal deck isn't doing too
badly. Krovikan Horror makes it real ugly.
David Hyon
In article <4rrlqg$9...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdo...@titan.iwu.edu says...
>
>: Necroshit decks are finally going to get the Axe. Baxter was CHEESED in
>: the finals. Necro's restriction must now be guarenteed.
>
>: Chris
>
>
>
>36 percent of decks were Necro at the start of the tournament...
>
>5 Necro decks made the top 16 (31 percent)
>
>1 Necro deck made the top 4 (25 percent)
>
>This hardly looks like "Necro Dominance" to me - the percentage of
>Necro decks in the tournet dropped consistently over the course of play.
>Add to this the fact that the winning Necro was NOT a standard necro
>deck (in the absence of discs and drains and the presence of a second
>color) this REALLY looks like necro FAILED to dominate.
>
How can you say this? Only a 5% decrease from the beginning to the final 16 and
then still one in the final four.
>On top of this, the three other decks in the final 4 sound like very
>interesting, creative decks - and are *not* the type of deck one would
>expect in a necro-dominated environment.
Purely stated. The turbo stasis deck would not lose to Necro decks. Bentleys
version did not use Disks (very pathetic against Stasis) and had bolts which
were very effective. The extra land destruction forced an early end to the
stasis lock. That is why he won against the turbo-stasis. RAAAA
>
>IMHO, the results tell us exactly why necro/hymn should *not* be restricted.
>Necro did not dominate the tourney.
>
And the only reason for this. Turbo-stasis. I personally knocked out
three of the Necro's. Otherwise I believe they would have been all over the
finals. One still won didnt it? I think that the standard Necro deck beat
Bentley, its just that the standard Necro-deck could not handle striking a
pose. Gotta love the Nationals.
Finally, I think the Necro deck would have dominated the turb-stasis
deck with the proper side-boarding. It was purely the ambush value of the deck
that made it win. When Derek Rank (one of the four playing turbo-stasis) faced
a deck using 4 Yotian Soldiers it did not have a chance (pure amusement). See
you at worlds.
Michael W. Dove
Sun God
iqj...@aol.com (IQJeff) writes:
>I think before anybody starts going off about how Baxter got cheesed or
>how Necro decks must be curtailed, there's one minor detail you all should
>know:
>Dennis didn't cast a Necropotence in ANY of his three games against Baxter
>and he only got it off successfully ONCE in six games against Place (in
>the semi's). So you still want to tell me Baxter got cheesed by
>Necropotence?
Place lost to the Hymn. It's as simple as that. His combos got taken
out of his hand by a cheesy 2 mana card that is basically two
counterspells/two sinkholes and doesn't have to even wait for the spells
to be cast to counter them.
>How about the fact that Dennis is a great player who had the guts to play
>a deck that was very light on what most people would consider 'defense'.
>One Shatter in the sideboard was his only method of killing artifacts, and
>he had no way of dealing with enchantments (save Dystopia for Green and
>White). Yet not only did he win, he won often and he won convincingly.
I agree that he was more creative than the other necrodorks.
>He used everyone's preconceptions of what a Necro deck SHOULD be to take
>just about all of his opponent's off-guard. Example: twice Baxter didn't
>Divine Offering because he was waiting for the Disk to come out. You
>should have seen the look on his face when he found out Dennis wasn't
>playing with any Disks.
Surprise is a very important element in tournament play, which is the
big reason that the stasis decks did so well: few people expected them and
few people sideboarded for them. A single zephyr falcon or yotian soldier
early on has a good chance of beating them. Or an instill energy. If they
take the time and mana to boomerang them it slows down their lock by a
turn or two which lets more damage slip through, and they live on the edge
already.
>If you feel the need to go off on a card, how about Hymn to Tourach? It's
>probably the card that won Dennis the most games. (Gee...are you really
>surprised?) But even so, there were plenty of other types of decks that
>did well. The Hymn is a great card, but it hardly dominated the Nationals
>like Land Tax had been doing in earlier tournaments (before its
>restriction).
The necrodecks didn't dominate simply because everyone was prepared for
them and could win the two out of three games they weren't hymned on turn
two and three. i.e. the stasis and winter orb decks won when the
stasis/orb wasn't hymned out of their hand and they were allowed to play
their strategy.
Let's look at how I did at nationals: (I played a black/red
Vampires/Shivans deck) All of this is from memory so I'm sure it's
innacurate in some details like game order and which of my creatures
killed them.
Round 1: (Kyle, standard necro)
Game 1: I hymn my opponent once and get out a big creature. He consults
all but 6 cards in his library looking for a contagion and concedes.
Game 2: I am hymned 3 times and die easily.
Game 3: I am hymned once for a land and strip mined and he consults for
another strip mine and he goes necro and icequakes me. I lose really bad.
Round 2: (Georgia, black/red non-necro)
Game 1: My opponent hymns me twice and casts dance of the dead on a
vampire I discarded. I die.
Game 2: I hymn my opponent twice and win easily.
Game 3: We each hymn each other once and I win with a vampire and a
serrated arrows.
Round 3: (Preston Poulter, White/green armageddon)
Game 1: I hymn him once, he hurricanes my spectre, plowshares my
vampire, and my shivan is too much for him.
Game 2: I hymn him twice. I bolt his dervish and earthquake two
spectral bears and a mana elf, he drew about 8 land besides those 4
creatures. No contest.
Game 3: I hymn him three times and dystopia kills 2 elves and an
ernham. A really sick demonstration of the extreme imbalance of some cards
as he dies with something like 4 lands in play and one card in hand next
to my 5 lands, 3 creatures, and 3 cards in hand, all in about 7 turns.
Round 4: (Some big native american dude playing standard black necro)
Game 1: first turn spectre and second turn hymn, I draw no red mana for
a bolt and lose 4 cards to the spectre before I kill it. No chance.
Game 2: hymn him once, get out some little stuff that gets contagioned,
get out some big stuff, I win.
Game 3: hymned twice, I lose, my creatures get contagioned like mad.
Round 5: (A polite guy from Virginia playing W/G/R)
Game 1: I hymn him a couple times and win with a rampaging vampire
Game 2: I get no land but a swamp and 3 mishra's factories and lose
after an armageddon.
Game 3: I hymn him a couple times and get out dystopia. Whee, an easy
win.
Round 6: (A cool guy playing a black deck)
I was really tired by this point and don't remember much.
Game 1: hymn, hymn, win.
Game 2: hymned, hymned, lose.
Game 3: Spectre keeps taking his cards, I win.
27th place: 4-2, 11-7 with 5 losses being to 2+ hymns, 1 loss being to a
hymned land followed by two strip mines, and 1 loss being to a mana screw
followed by an armageddon. THE HYMN IS A VERY BROKEN CARD. I'd say that
who cast how many hymns was the deciding factor in about 14 of my games.
In retrospect I should have played with 4 dance of the deads as a foil to
the hymn and a couple of pyrokinesis as a foil to land destruction and
ritualed spectres. Ah well, my mistake was assuming that people would draw
only one early hymn and not an average of nearly two in each ~8 turn game.
The games weren't about who had the better deck design or about
necropotence or about sideboarding. I went 5-1 in games in which my
opponent didn't play with the hymn and went 6-6 in the games in which they
did because they were all luck of the early hymn. Wheeeeee. Isn't type II
fun? Necropotence is only good because it allows the player to draw more
of the two broken cards, hymn and strip mine. With those two cards banned
or restricted, (although I really don't understand the reasoning behind
restriction, if the card is so good that four is abusive why allow even
one?) I doubt people would win tournaments with necrodecks any more
because the power of necropotence/drain life would be countered by the
vulnerability of straight black which is VERY LARGELY compensated for now
by the hymn which often can take the color hoser (karma/kormus
bell/CoP:Black/Thelon's chant/reclamation) out of the hand before it can
be cast and by the strip mine which lets the black player draw more hymns
while his opponent waits for the mana to cast his hoser. Would winter
orb/icy decks then dominate? I doubt it, considering the devastation of a
shattered/crumbled/scavenger folked winter orb followed by a big primitive
justice...and there would be more red/green decks if the black ones
weren't so abusive.
It is promising to see that Ice Age and Alliances contain a FAR higher
ratio of balanced to unbalanced cards (both too powerful and too weak)
than earlier sets with the glaring exception of zuran orb which should go
the way of channel and mind twist (and take balance with it). Homelands
was weak though, so maybe it's just a coincidence. Root spider, anyone?
Ghost hounds? Sea Troll? Aliban's tower? Ambush Party?
>Jeff Hannes
>Games Editor, InQuest Magazine
>IQJ...@aol.com
Dave Lyon
PS: I'm still tired from Origins; maybe fatigue is why there haven't been
very many PT3 and Nationals reports yet.
Yap Yap Yap
iqj...@aol.com (IQJeff) writes:
>As for the Stasis deck...no Storm Cauldron, no Exile....no Disenchants!
>Would you believe the only white card used in the main deck was Kismet?
>These Stasis decks are like nothing you've ever seen. Let's just say that
>Force of Will certainly didn't hurt. (My shameless plug is that the deck
>contents for the final four decks will be in the August issue of InQuest,
>but I'm sure netland will have that info long before then.)
Land tax is white and also in the deck.
Jim Dougan
: >From another post, we have learned that:
: >
: >36 percent of decks were Necro at the start of the tournament...
: >
: >5 Necro decks made the top 16 (31 percent)
: >
: >1 Necro deck made the top 4 (25 percent)
: >
: >This hardly looks like "Necro Dominance" to me - the percentage of
: >Necro decks in the tournet dropped consistently over the course of play.
: >Add to this the fact that the winning Necro was NOT a standard necro
: >deck (in the absence of discs and drains and the presence of a second
: >color) this REALLY looks like necro FAILED to dominate.
: >
: How can you say this? Only a 5% decrease from the beginning to the final 16 and
: then still one in the final four.
True, this may not be a statistically significant drop (I think it probably is,
given the number of players in the tourney, but I haven't run the analysis).
Still, it is hardly the pattern one would expect if necro DOMINATED.
Some people seem to be taking the fact that a necro deck won as evidence
that necro dominated - this is simply a failure to look at the facts.
: >IMHO, the results tell us exactly why necro/hymn should *not* be restricted.
: >Necro did not dominate the tourney.
: >
: And the only reason for this. Turbo-stasis. I personally knocked out
: three of the Necro's. Otherwise I believe they would have been all over the
: finals. One still won didnt it? I think that the standard Necro deck beat
: Bentley, its just that the standard Necro-deck could not handle striking a
: pose. Gotta love the Nationals.
Hmmm...I doubt that 4 turbo stasis decks could be completely responsible
for holding necro in its place - there must have been some other type of
decks beating necro as well - otherwise we would have seen many more necro
decks in the final 16.
-- Jim
Karl Allen
In article <4rstna$i...@insosf1.netins.net> sun...@worf.netins.net
> Place lost to the Hymn. It's as simple as that. His combos got taken
>out of his hand by a cheesy 2 mana card that is basically two
>counterspells/two sinkholes and doesn't have to even wait for the spells
>to be cast to counter them.
Oh, no, Mr. Bill, it's *that* argument again! I'd be interested in
seeing the details of how these Hymns worked - did the Hymns have
Cade-esque luck, always sucking up the two best cards in Place's
hand? My suspicion is that the Hymns hurt (they almost always do), but
that they were part of a broader strategy that led to victory.
> Let's look at how I did at nationals: (I played a black/red
>Vampires/Shivans deck) All of this is from memory so I'm sure it's
>innacurate in some details like game order and which of my creatures
>killed them.
* Very good run-down of tourney action deleted *
>27th place: 4-2, 11-7 with 5 losses being to 2+ hymns, 1 loss being to a
>hymned land followed by two strip mines, and 1 loss being to a mana screw
>followed by an armageddon. THE HYMN IS A VERY BROKEN CARD.
I disagree. Just ask Chris. :-) Hymn to Tourach is a *one* card
advantage. It's powerful, it's nasty, and lots of folks hate it, but
it's not broken. Just ask the DC - they haven't restricted it, and
they never make a mistake.
>I'd say that who cast how many hymns was the deciding factor in about 14
>of my games.
Considering that you were playing with Hymns, this isn't very surprising.
If you were playing a blast deck, you might have found that who
cast how many Bolts was a deciding factor. In a white weenie deck,
Crusades might be key.
>In retrospect I should have played with 4 dance of the deads as a foil to
>the hymn and a couple of pyrokinesis as a foil to land destruction and
>ritualed spectres. Ah well, my mistake was assuming that people would draw
>only one early hymn and not an average of nearly two in each ~8 turn game.
60 card decks. 4 Hymns. In the opening draw + 1 there's over a 50%
chance of have one Hymn. In 7 turns, assuming there's three Hymns
left in the deck, there's something like a 40% chance of getting another
Hymn. Instead of Pyrokinesis, Guerilla Tactics might have been a
better choice.
>The games weren't about who had the better deck design or about
>necropotence or about sideboarding. I went 5-1 in games in which my
>opponent didn't play with the hymn and went 6-6 in the games in which they
>did because they were all luck of the early hymn.
Are you sure you're remembering this correctly? Goodness knows I can't
remember most of the details of any tourney I play in. I have found
that many people remember things that support their arguments (like
early Hymns) vividly, but tend to forget games that don't help
their arguments out.
It is possible, though, that your deck is vulnerable to Hymning and
Strip Mines. Does this mean that they're broken? Or does it mean
that your deck has an achilles heel? Since you're playing with Shivans
and Vampires, one might argue that your deck is slow, and therefore
vulnerable to being Hymned. Consider the fact that only
one Necropotence deck, and an atypical one at that, made it to the
final four, despite the dire predictions that Necropotence (and Hymns)
would rule the world. Either Necro decks aren't all they're cracked
up to be, or nobody brought Necro. So far the evidence I've seen points to
the former.
>Necropotence is only good because it allows the player to draw more
>of the two broken cards, hymn and strip mine. With those two cards banned
>or restricted, (although I really don't understand the reasoning behind
>restriction, if the card is so good that four is abusive why allow even
>one?) I doubt people would win tournaments with necrodecks any more
>because the power of necropotence/drain life would be countered by the
>vulnerability of straight black which is VERY LARGELY compensated for now
>by the hymn which often can take the color hoser (karma/kormus
>bell/CoP:Black/Thelon's chant/reclamation) out of the hand before it can
>be cast and by the strip mine which lets the black player draw more hymns
>while his opponent waits for the mana to cast his hoser. Would winter
>orb/icy decks then dominate? I doubt it, considering the devastation of a
>shattered/crumbled/scavenger folked winter orb followed by a big primitive
>justice...and there would be more red/green decks if the black ones
>weren't so abusive.
This is the mirage that the Ban/Restrict mob has always been chasing -
that if we make just *one* more restriction, if we just ban *one*
more card, we can have a better world where everything is equal and
no deck will dominate. So we see Mind Twist banned. Then Vice gets
restricted. Well, shucks, now Necropotence and Land Tax are a problem.
The problem is that every action the DC takes ripples outward, causing
unforseen consequences. And with the lemming mentality of tourney players,
any hot new craze quickly becomes the "dominant" deck archetype,
causing folks to call for DC action on key cards in the strategy. It
is much better, in my opinion, to let the tourney scene sort itself
out. Let people find answers to the Necropotence deck on their own,
rather than relying on restrictions to enfore some ill-defined ideal
of deck variability. That's what the DC did when they didn't
restrict Hymn to Tourach - looks like maybe they did the right thing,
based on the reports I've seen.
I remain,
K
Jonathan W Newton
Sun God wrote:
> Place lost to the Hymn. It's as simple as that. His combos got taken
> out of his hand by a cheesy 2 mana card that is basically two
> counterspells/two sinkholes and doesn't have to even wait for the spells
> to be cast to counter them.
>
Since when have combos been safe in tournament play?
If you're relying on combos, you will have them broken
up.
> >How about the fact that Dennis is a great player who had the guts to play
> >a deck that was very light on what most people would consider 'defense'.
> >One Shatter in the sideboard was his only method of killing artifacts, and
> >he had no way of dealing with enchantments (save Dystopia for Green and
> >White). Yet not only did he win, he won often and he won convincingly.
>
> I agree that he was more creative than the other necrodorks.
>
I can tell that this won't be a biased post.
> >If you feel the need to go off on a card, how about Hymn to Tourach? It's
> >probably the card that won Dennis the most games. (Gee...are you really
> >surprised?) But even so, there were plenty of other types of decks that
> >did well. The Hymn is a great card, but it hardly dominated the Nationals
> >like Land Tax had been doing in earlier tournaments (before its
> >restriction).
>
> The necrodecks didn't dominate simply because everyone was prepared for
> them and could win the two out of three games they weren't hymned on turn
> two and three. i.e. the stasis and winter orb decks won when the
> stasis/orb wasn't hymned out of their hand and they were allowed to play
> their strategy.
>
So what's the problem, then?
[Rounds with a lot o' hymns - snipped]
> 27th place: 4-2, 11-7 with 5 losses being to 2+ hymns, 1 loss being to a
> hymned land followed by two strip mines, and 1 loss being to a mana screw
> followed by an armageddon. THE HYMN IS A VERY BROKEN CARD. I'd say that
> who cast how many hymns was the deciding factor in about 14 of my games.
> In retrospect I should have played with 4 dance of the deads as a foil to
> the hymn and a couple of pyrokinesis as a foil to land destruction and
> ritualed spectres. Ah well, my mistake was assuming that people would draw
> only one early hymn and not an average of nearly two in each ~8 turn game.
Sounds strange to me.
> The games weren't about who had the better deck design or about
> necropotence or about sideboarding. I went 5-1 in games in which my
> opponent didn't play with the hymn and went 6-6 in the games in which they
> did because they were all luck of the early hymn. Wheeeeee. Isn't type II
> fun? Necropotence is only good because it allows the player to draw more
> of the two broken cards, hymn and strip mine. With those two cards banned
Strip mine is certainly not broken.
> or restricted, (although I really don't understand the reasoning behind
> restriction, if the card is so good that four is abusive why allow even
I'm beginning to agree, especially in the
case of zuran orb. In the case of black
vise, however, leaving one in the game is
no big deal. You have to totally base your
deck on the vise to make it nasty. Basing
your deck on one card is not feasible.
> one?) I doubt people would win tournaments with necrodecks any more
> because the power of necropotence/drain life would be countered by the
> vulnerability of straight black which is VERY LARGELY compensated for now
> by the hymn which often can take the color hoser (karma/kormus
> bell/CoP:Black/Thelon's chant/reclamation) out of the hand before it can
> be cast and by the strip mine which lets the black player draw more hymns
> while his opponent waits for the mana to cast his hoser. Would winter
> orb/icy decks then dominate? I doubt it, considering the devastation of a
> shattered/crumbled/scavenger folked winter orb followed by a big primitive
> justice...and there would be more red/green decks if the black ones
> weren't so abusive.
Eh, I'm still not convinced. I think that
control decks would get a huge boost if
hymn disappeared. I do not think that your
hand should be a safe place for cards. Hand
disruption is an important aspect of the
game.
> It is promising to see that Ice Age and Alliances contain a FAR higher
> ratio of balanced to unbalanced cards (both too powerful and too weak)
> than earlier sets with the glaring exception of zuran orb which should go
> the way of channel and mind twist (and take balance with it). Homelands
Yup.
> was weak though, so maybe it's just a coincidence. Root spider, anyone?
> Ghost hounds? Sea Troll? Aliban's tower? Ambush Party?
>
Well, I heard that the IA/Alliances designers
were the same people, while homelands was a
different group. If this is true, then it
isn't a coincidence. This could be B.S., though.
-Jon Newton
Frederick Scott
iqj...@aol.com (IQJeff) writes:
>How about the fact that Dennis is a great player who had the guts to play
>a deck that was very light on what most people would consider 'defense'.
>One Shatter in the sideboard was his only method of killing artifacts,
Interesting you should mention that. When Henry Stern's National Tournament
runner-up deck got posted last year (or was it his World semi-finalist deck?)
I noticed there was only 1 Shatter in the main deck and no other defense
against artifacts that I could see. I think there may have been a couple more
anti-artifact cards in the sideboard if I remember right but I still found
that to be really curious. Maybe the makings of a truly great deck involve
not being very vulnerable to certain popular classes of cards _without_ needing
any specific defensive cards to kill them. Very interesting stuff...
Fred
Thom Hogan
In article <4rts1l$8...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdo...@titan.iwu.edu (Jim
Dougan) wrote:
> : >From another post, we have learned that:
> : >
> : >36 percent of decks were Necro at the start of the tournament...
> : >
> : >5 Necro decks made the top 16 (31 percent)
> : >
> : >1 Necro deck made the top 4 (25 percent)
> : >
> : >This hardly looks like "Necro Dominance" to me - the percentage of
> : >Necro decks in the tournet dropped consistently over the course of play.
> : >Add to this the fact that the winning Necro was NOT a standard necro
> : >deck (in the absence of discs and drains and the presence of a second
> : >color) this REALLY looks like necro FAILED to dominate.
> : >
>
> : How can you say this? Only a 5% decrease from the beginning to the
final 16 and
> : then still one in the final four.
>
>
> True, this may not be a statistically significant drop (I think it
probably is,
> given the number of players in the tourney, but I haven't run the analysis).
>
> Still, it is hardly the pattern one would expect if necro DOMINATED.
Actually, I beg to differ. Do the math. The sheer number of necro decks
means that they ended up playing each other. A typical Necro entry would,
on average, run into two other Necros in a six-round swiss. That would
mean that a Necro that loses to the other two necros it faced would have
to sweep its other opponents to just go 4-2. More likely, Necros averaged
losing to one necro and beating the other, as the first hymner would have
an advantage. I think that the numbers show that Necro held up especially
well.
What WAS interesting was the dominance of a deck nobody expected, Stasis.
Just goes to show that the mind game works--if you think like your
opponent, you can figure out what they AREN'T expecting and do well.
--
-teh "succumbed to playing Willogeddon, but with a twist"
Alan D Kohler
In article <4rstna$i...@insosf1.netins.net>, sun...@worf.netins.net says...
>
>iqj...@aol.com (IQJeff) writes:
>>Dennis didn't cast a Necropotence in ANY of his three games against Baxter
>>and he only got it off successfully ONCE in six games against Place (in
>>the semi's). So you still want to tell me Baxter got cheesed by
>>Necropotence?
>
> Place lost to the Hymn. It's as simple as that. His combos got taken
>out of his hand by a cheesy 2 mana card that is basically two
>counterspells/two sinkholes and doesn't have to even wait for the spells
>to be cast to counter them.
That's bullshit. A hymn takes away your draws. Counters take away the mana
and time you used to cast the spell, too, and you can choose what you
counter. While both are preventative measures, one hymn does not equal 2
counters.
> The necrodecks didn't dominate simply because everyone was prepared for
>them and could win the two out of three games they weren't hymned on turn
>two and three. i.e. the stasis and winter orb decks won when the
>stasis/orb wasn't hymned out of their hand and they were allowed to play
>their strategy.
I don't know exactly how the games went, but it seems to me there's 3 other
reasons why the turbo-stasis should do good agasint classic necro-disk:
1) Howling mine is an inherently good card agaisnt necro. It never lets
your opponent get a card advantage (Not that turbo-stasis WANTS a card
advantage).
2) Stasis is inherently useful agaisnt the one card in a standard necro-deck
that can get rid of it: the disk.
3) Lim duls vault is the combo-card, and its nature makes it useful to
protect combos from the hymn. You get the 5 cards you want on top, but with
vault you don't draw them until your next draw. So you put cards on top
that you can cast the same turn you draw them. Thus, the combo cards never
stay in your hand more than a turn.
--
Alan D Kohler
hwk...@poky.srv.net
"Slow day, eh, God?" - Al Bundy
Michael John Falkner
Canticle (cant...@aratar.mb.ca) wrote:
: The drawback has always been lack of sufficient offense/lock potential.
Offense doesn't matter. If you're not playing against a DD deck that has
mana untapped, you can basically run the cards out.
: As for Green/White Titania's Song? Deadly as well...a friend of mine in
: Winipeg has one he uses a lot and it's damn effective...he hasn't be able
: to make it out to many tournaments, unfortunately.
He may need some mana denial (Icy/Winter Orb??)
: Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept that
: is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
: with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player. Hopefully, this means that
Good AND lucky -- game one of the final, he has all four dark rituals in his
hand. 13 point fireball turns 16-16 into 16-3.
Michael John Falkner
James Grahame (ja3g...@barrow.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: Perhaps somebody who watched it could tell us: did the Stasis decks
: use Storm Cauldron? Or Exile? Or any Alliances cards other than Ivory
: Gargoyle? ;-)
No, no, and I believe only the counterspell variants.
: Well, he won the finals 3-0, so he'll be called "good" now. Nice
: to see Place, Long and Baxter up there, too.
As I said before, good and lucky.
: Ditto. But you should know that the Necro had some red in it.
: Somebody had to be playing red, after all. ;-)
Necrofire...
Michael John Falkner
IQJeff (iqj...@aol.com) wrote:
: Dennis didn't cast a Necropotence in ANY of his three games against Baxter
: and he only got it off successfully ONCE in six games against Place (in
: the semi's). So you still want to tell me Baxter got cheesed by
: Necropotence?
HE didn't, but there's several other opponents who could've...
Problem was that the one game he got the Necro off ended up the one draw of
the six.
J.H.
This is something that many deck creators don't pay attention to.
To get your decktech on the cutting edge, it's a must to understand
this concept.
Take it easy,
Vince
Paul van Gool
otw...@Eng.Sun.COM (Chris Otwell) wrote:
>> >: He will face Dennis Bentley (NEcro) who beat Matt Place (S/K Lock)
>> >: 3 1/2 - 2 1/2.
>> >
>> >Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept that
>> >is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
>> >with a Necrodeck rather than a lucky player.
>>
>> Well, he won the finals 3-0, so he'll be called "good" now. Nice
>> to see Place, Long and Baxter up there, too.
>>
>> >Hopefully, this means that
>> >Necrodecks are losing their dominance (lesse...Green/White, 2 White/Blue
>> >and one mono Black in the finals. Nice range of colours and styles. I'd
>> >like to see the top 8 though).
>Necroshit decks are finally going to get the Axe. Baxter was CHEESED in
>the finals. Necro's restriction must now be guarenteed.
What a b**ls**t.
Just because he had necro's in his deck and won the Necro must be
restricted. Before you post such crap you should first inform yourself
better.
It wasn't a standard Necro. And as far as I have heard he never got a
Necro out in the finals.
From all reports I have seen about the US nationals I only can get to
the conclusion that restriction of Necro is in no way necessary.
>Chris
Jonathan W Newton
Thom Hogan wrote:
>
> > Still, it is hardly the pattern one would expect if necro DOMINATED.
>
> Actually, I beg to differ. Do the math. The sheer number of necro decks
> means that they ended up playing each other. A typical Necro entry would,
> on average, run into two other Necros in a six-round swiss. That would
This reasoning is flawed. The same silly argument
applies to NON-necro decks. In fact, there were
about twice as many non-becro decks. By you're
logic, they must have been at an even bigger
disadvantage because they were knocking each other
out more than necro was knocking itself out.
> mean that a Necro that loses to the other two necros it faced would have
> to sweep its other opponents to just go 4-2. More likely, Necros averaged
> losing to one necro and beating the other, as the first hymner would have
> an advantage. I think that the numbers show that Necro held up especially
> well.
>
The numbers show that necro is a tournament
competitive necro. It does not show that it
dominates type 2. If this was true, you
would have seen 50+% of the decks being necro
in the later matches.
> What WAS interesting was the dominance of a deck nobody expected, Stasis.
Well, I'm not sure I'd base a study on stasis
simply on 4 entries.
> Just goes to show that the mind game works--if you think like your
> opponent, you can figure out what they AREN'T expecting and do well.
Suprise certainly helps.
-Jon Newton
Jonathan W Newton
Michael John Falkner wrote:
>
> : Actually, I'm glad Necropotence is still around...it's a neat concept that
> : is just TOO good...although hopefully this is an example of a good player
>
> Good AND lucky -- game one of the final, he has all four dark rituals in his
> hand. 13 point fireball turns 16-16 into 16-3.
Is it really possible to win a magic tournament
without being lucky? Usually a good player wins
the tournament, however that player is rarely
complaining about bad luck.
-Jon Newton
Michael Bahr
In article <31E305...@best.com>, J.H. <jam...@best.com> wrote:
>Frederick Scott wrote:
>> iqj...@aol.com (IQJeff) writes:
>>
>> >How about the fact that Dennis is a great player who had the guts to play
>> >a deck that was very light on what most people would consider 'defense'.
>> that to be really curious. Maybe the makings of a truly great deck involve
>> not being very vulnerable to certain popular classes of cards _without_ needing
>> any specific defensive cards to kill them. Very interesting stuff...
>This is something that many deck creators don't pay attention to.
>To get your decktech on the cutting edge, it's a must to understand
>this concept.
I agree completely. This ties in to something I read about the
Weissman deck, and I think if we all take the time to learn and
understand this, our decks will get a LOT better as a result.
The "complete lock" in the Weissman deck is Moat, Blood Moon, and
Circle of Protection: Red. That brings most Type I decks to their knees.
About the only sort of decks that wouldn't be affected by that are
Necrodecks and White Weenie Flyer decks. Once the lock is in place, Brian
will use his disrupting Scepters to keep stripping the opponent's hand
clean, and use his own Jayemdae Tome to continually fuel up on
countermagic to protect those three permanents. But why??
Well, card advantage is everything. If you can include enough
different types of cards that hose many different categories of attack
or defense, while nullifying as many cards of theirs as possible with as
few of yours as possible, you'll inevitably win. The Circles of
Protection are an interesting starting point, one of many possible.
One COP: Red will nullify anything red that the opponent can
throw at you for the rest of the _game_. It acts as a huge Mind Twist
that even reaches deep into the opponent's deck. It acts alone simply as
basic DD defense, and it acts in tandem with, oh, about ten zillion other
cards, not the least among them Earthquake, Blood Moon, or Power Surge.
But what if they're not playing Red? That's not the question you
should be asing. The real question is what if they're not playing DIRECT
DAMAGE. We now need to shut down weenie hordes, Juzam decks, reanimator
decks, and the like, and Moat is all it takes. Moat, just like COP red,
reaches deep into the opponent's deck to Mind Twist away any and all
ground offense, and ALL support spells (not that any of us use Unholy
Strength, but let's face it, we DO use Animate Dead). Every such draw
becomes a wasted draw, and the card advantage landslide continues.
Now what deck types remain? More importantly, how could the
opponent still damage you? Flyers, right? STP. There are no flyers in the
game with Protection From White. That about covers things. (I _really_
_really_ hope Mirage addresses these problems). Blood Moon will prevent
most Type I decks from casting any enchantment removal, which about takes
care of protecting those permanents... and since The Deck features
several Islands and a Sapphire, blue mana on the other side is of little
concern.
Unless the Type I opponent is playing Vercursion, heavy
permission, Millstone, or Speed Serendib + Such, that three way lock
eliminates their _entire deck_ from usefulness, while your defense gets
more and more impenetrable with each counterspell you draw. The two Serra
Angels in The Deck are indeed enough to bring about the win. If you're
too lazy to wait, kill yourself with City of Brass and switch life with
the Mirror Universe. It just works. I wonder how Alliances will figure in.
If the opponent IS playing permission, the Disrupting Scepters in
The Deck tear apart their hand. If they're playing Vercursion, well, you
have countermagic. If they're playing Speed Serendib, you have
Pyroblasts and STPs. It's the little touches that make the deck complete.
Now why do I even mention all this? Because we need to understand
this and take these deck construction principles to heart when we try to
make "the next great Deck" or it simply will not happen. A deck must be
able to shut down the opponent completely or otherwise, win so fast that
it doesn't matter. (i.e. Juzam, strip, Juzam, Berserk, 2nd/3rd turn win.)
I hope this article has proven interesting for some of you out
there, maybe even help you make a really great deck type.
- voluntas vincit omnia - Mike Bahr - dur...@indirect.com -
Michael John Falkner
Alan D Kohler (hwk...@poky.srv.net) wrote:
: That's bullshit. A hymn takes away your draws. Counters take away the mana
: and time you used to cast the spell, too, and you can choose what you
: counter. While both are preventative measures, one hymn does not equal 2
: counters.
Depends. If you can cast them, yes -- or if you can cast them soon. heck,
they may be PRE-EMPTIVE counterspells...
Or they may be pre-emptive LD.
: I don't know exactly how the games went, but it seems to me there's 3 other
: reasons why the turbo-stasis should do good agasint classic necro-disk:
:
: 1) Howling mine is an inherently good card agaisnt necro. It never lets
: your opponent get a card advantage (Not that turbo-stasis WANTS a card
: advantage).
That's not it -- it neutralizes the Necro advantage.
: 2) Stasis is inherently useful agaisnt the one card in a standard necro-deck
: that can get rid of it: the disk.
It's the old question of which drops first.
: 3) Lim duls vault is the combo-card, and its nature makes it useful to
: protect combos from the hymn. You get the 5 cards you want on top, but with
: vault you don't draw them until your next draw. So you put cards on top
: that you can cast the same turn you draw them. Thus, the combo cards never
: stay in your hand more than a turn.
It's a wonder, given that statement, that both Stasis decks lost in the
semis at all, at that point...