Chronicles: Open Letter to WOC
Gail Johnson
Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
where the value decreases?
Now I am sure that you can sit here for hours and tell me how great you
are for doing this because of the advantages it gives newer players. That
is a crock. As a "not so old player", I went out and traded heavily for
the older cards (as we are supposed to do) and bought a few too (might I
point out that this is the logic behind "collectability") and now you
have screwed me! By the way, since you are so high and mighty on
yourselves thinking that you did such a great thing, I would like to
remind you of the time your customer service rep told me that partial
shipments don't exist and that the price on a pack of Dark was never
raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you guys full of it! Don't
try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run
a business or what the words "customer service" mean.
As for your partial shipments: Fourth edition? I would think that would
mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
HCS...@uacsc2.albany.edu
want to make money, get a job. not once did you cite playing the game in your
'essay'. So what do you do? just sit around, trading for and buying cards, a
nd then buying the newest scrye to see how much the value of your set went up?
i really hope not.
Jason Aaron Fager
Gail Johnson <MJX...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
Yes, WotC has never made it a point to pay attention to whiners,
crybabies and speculators who don't have enough sense to dump their cards
BEFORE the bottom drops out of the hobby.
>Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
>Magic players.
Well, the long-time players and collectors already HAVE plenty of cards.
>For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
>with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
>up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions
Yes, we have been faithful (addicted is probably a better word), and despite
the recent screw-ups, I intend to stick with the hobby, because I enjoy it
so much. If that means that I can't afford to buy scads of new cards, then
so be it. Much like I am forced to do with Ice Age, I'll scrounge around
and trade for what I can.
>but now you take
>and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
>as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
>to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
>where the value decreases?
Here is the defining flaw in your argument. You obviously don't collect
cards because you enjoy collecting, or because you want a variety of cards
to play with. You collect sets, or expensive singles, and them sell them
off at a profit. I despise people like you. Scum like you suck all the
enjoyment out of this hobby, by driving prices through the roof, and taking
thousands of cards out of circulation while you greedily wait for prices to
go up.
I am making preparations to collect one of every Magic card ever printed...
not as a money-making scheme, or to hold over other peoples' heads, but
so that I might have a physical, written record of the game that changed
the hobby industry forever. (whoa, that sounded grand)
I love this game, you don't. Shut up or get out, 'cause we sure as hell
don't need you.
>is a crock. As a "not so old player", I went out and traded heavily for
>the older cards (as we are supposed to do) and bought a few too (might I
Whoa! Garfield and Co. weren't sure if they could sell 2.5 million Alpha
cards...they certainly didn't envision a singles market capable of supporting
$200+ cards. There were no "older cards" in the original vision; therefore,
the original vision (of an easily-tradable, "collectable" game) no longer
exists, except to bolster a fundamentally weak argument, such as yours.
>point out that this is the logic behind "collectability") and now you
>have screwed me! By the way, since you are so high and mighty on
>yourselves thinking that you did such a great thing, I would like to
I might point out that you are the one sounding "high and mighty". You
are like a child with a powerful toy...your toy has been taken away, so
you throw a temper tantrum.
>remind you of the time your customer service rep told me that partial
>shipments don't exist and that the price on a pack of Dark was never
>raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you guys full of it! Don't
WotC is trying to expand too much too fast...they have their own problems,
none of which have any bearing on your argument.
>try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
>are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run
>a business or what the words "customer service" mean.
They did right fine when it was a dozen people in a three-room office,
putting out fine works like the Talislanta series. You try growing that
kind of business into a multinational corporation essentially overnight, and
see if you don't make a few mistakes (this does not excuse WotC for some of
the boners they've pulled, but as long as they keep talking to us, we'll
continue to cut them some slack).
>As for your partial shipments: Fourth edition? I would think that would
>mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
>by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
Actually, I've seen 4E starters in a number of places...they go for 125%
of retail, but that's because they're not available through primary market
channels.
jafager
Tulse X. Luper
> To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
Probably true.
> Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
> Magic players.
Well slap me again and slap me hard!
[lotsa yagayagayaga deleted...]
> What is the point of collecting something
> where the value decreases?
Collectables are a hit and miss affair. Who knew that your Uncle Al's argyle
socks would be so valuable 50 years later, while Aunt Edna's sterling
toothpicks languish on the market? If there ever were a sure investment,
poverty would be eradicated.
[more self-serving yagayagayaga deleted...]
> And by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
I have it. Come and get it, that is, if you can make it past the guard
dogs and traps as you enter the vault. As for me, I'm pleased as punch WotC
is reissuing older cards. My own objective is to gather, play and
keep. Chronicles really shouldn't affect your collections of Alpha,
Beta, and original release, since the cards may be reprinted, but not
the editions.
ere...@digex.net -----------------------------------------------------------
Vegetable Rights Now!
----------------------------------- Tulse Luper: 92 clumsy cormorants in VUE.
Cory Johnson
: In article <41d449$v...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>,
: Gail Johnson <MJX...@prodigy.com> wrote:
: >To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
: Yes, WotC has never made it a point to pay attention to whiners,
: crybabies and speculators who don't have enough sense to dump their cards
: BEFORE the bottom drops out of the hobby.
: >Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
: >Magic players.
: Well, the long-time players and collectors already HAVE plenty of cards.
: I am making preparations to collect one of every Magic card ever printed...
: not as a money-making scheme, or to hold over other peoples' heads, but
: so that I might have a physical, written record of the game that changed
: the hobby industry forever. (whoa, that sounded grand)
as am I.
: I love this game, you don't. Shut up or get out, 'cause we sure as hell
: don't need you.
: >mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
: >by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
: Actually, I've seen 4E starters in a number of places...they go for 125%
: of retail, but that's because they're not available through primary market
: channels.
I have also seen these, as well as IA that the DEALERS had the GOOD SENSE
to order lots of, from past shortages...
*Applause* These whining temper-tantrum type shows of emmotion rarely
ever succeed, and it's very pleasing to see that not everyone feels this
way about magic. At least a few of us still are in it for the love of the
game, not the greed of green....
: jafager
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Should you a Rat to madness tease
Why ev'n a Rat may plague you..."
-Samuel T. Coleridge, "Recantation"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cedric Chin
Funny, smells like dead whale meat.
Cedric.
v119...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
>To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
>as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
>to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
>where the value decreases?
Now, I thought that the original versions of the cards had black borders,
and the Chron version has a white border. From a *collectors* point of view,
the new cards are just crap. From a players point of view they are great,
and pretty much as good as any of the older cards. Now player demand for
that ultra expensive old card is going to drop, since they can get it much
cheaper in a newer version.
Reprinting old cards helps players. There are plenty of cards that will
*NEVER* be reprinted (spoilers/too powerful cards mostly) for pure
collectors to drool over.
>Now I am sure that you can sit here for hours and tell me how great you
>are for doing this because of the advantages it gives newer players. That
Wrong. I started playing a few months ago, and I don't have the money to
shell out for OOP cards, nor do I have the money to buy in print cards to
trade for OOP's. (Trade you 2 Lhurgoyfs, an Enduring Renewal and Marton
for a Timevault? yeah right) You think that a person who has bags of money
to spend on cards, or has been buying cards since Alpha should have an
advantage in *playing* the game. I don't.
The guy who has been playing for a long time should have an experience adv.
He already has a trading/collecting advantage since he bought that $30 card
for pennies.
>is a crock. As a "not so old player", I went out and traded heavily for
>the older cards (as we are supposed to do) and bought a few too (might I
>point out that this is the logic behind "collectability") and now you
>have screwed me! By the way, since you are so high and mighty on
Look at the money you have put into getting Magic cards, then look at
the value of the cards you own. The ONLY way you could claim getting
screwed by WotC is if your cards are worth LESS than what you paid for
them. And even so, you ever play the stock market?
>yourselves thinking that you did such a great thing, I would like to
>remind you of the time your customer service rep told me that partial
>shipments don't exist and that the price on a pack of Dark was never
>raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you guys full of it! Don't
>try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
>are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run
>a business or what the words "customer service" mean.
WotC announced long before the markup happened that they were going to do
it. And of course the price on a pack of Dark wasn't raised one week after
the shipment, this is the first price markup!
I think it was very nice of them to WAIT until after Chron had been in
stores for a week before marking all cards up. I got my box of Chron (split
it with a friend due to $$$ limitations) for $81 plus tax. It gave people
a chance to save on cards if they bought right away.
>As for your partial shipments: Fourth edition? I would think that would
>mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
>by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
Hmmm...first you complain that this is supposed to be a *COLLECTIBLE* card
game, then you complain that you're having trouble getting the cards you
want. If everyone were getting enough cards, then IA cards would have no
value.
The shortage of starters is a valid point. Come on WotC, a bunch of IA
cards require SC-Land, and it's very tough to come by. (Not that I think
SC-Land should go into boosters, just get the starters out to stores!)
-Claus Schwinge
Droz
: In article <41d449$v...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>
: MJX...@prodigy.com (Gail Johnson) writes:
:
: >
: >To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
: >
: >Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
: >with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
: >and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
: >to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
: >where the value decreases?
: I just don't understand, I guess... what is the big problem? When you
: make an investment (as you have done by purchasing cards and looking at their
: market value), you have taken a risk. By definition, this means it may not
: work out in your favor.
Well, this is partly correct. Your theory of how this works, in particular.
It's not a guaranteed win/win scenario. However, your point falls far short
of the original poster's complaint, which is also somewhat flawed. The
reason why you might lose out on this kind of investment is because:
a) So many people collect and keep their cards in good shape that the
value never really increases. This is accounted for by WotC controlling
the print runs, so that a reasonable guarantee exists that there is a
limited number of the particularly valuable cards. This limited number
will naturally decrease over time, as people use their cards as coasters,
lose them, or otherwise intentionally or unintentionally destroy the
cards. This virtually guarantees that card values will continually
increase over a long period of time.
b) Lack of interest in a particular card/game. WotC makes no guarantee
that for all time, Magic: the Gathering will at the very least hold a
certain value. That's because any card is only as valuable as what
someone will pay you for it. If there's only one Black Lotus left in all
of the universe, but no one wants it, you'll be lucky to get a nickel and
your choice of any one common land for it. On the other hand, if there
are millions of Mons' Goblin Raiders around, and everybody absolutely
HAS to have four of them, RIGHT NOW, they'll be worth a fortune.
I have noticed a large discrepancy between the net price lists, what
the traders on the net are willing to pay for certain cards at auction,
and what magazines like _Inquest_ or _Scrye_ list the card values at.
This is because, and ONLY because, what anyone is currently willing to
pay for a card is its *value*.
: WOtC has made decisions in your favor before, by lim-
: iting certain cards and banning others, thus making their value skyrocket. Now
: they have done something that hurts you. I hate to say it, but suck it up.
No, this is where you are wrong, at least in spirit, if I read you right.
WotC's decision to release these cards as a rotating set is what Gail
contends has affected the value of her cards. If this were true, then
she is correct in her complaint, because the point of issuing this as a
*collectable* card game is that not only is it important to get rare cards
with high gameplay value, it is equally important to get rare cards with
high collectable value, just as again it is equally important to get
common cards with gameplay value. Where Gail's complaint falls short,
in my eyes, is that that is what the distinctions between the different
editions (Alpha/Beta/Rev/4e/IA etc.) and releases is for. Of course
if you have an Alpha card, it's value should necessarily be higher than
a 4E card of the same name, simply because Alpha cards are no longer in
print, nor will they be printed again. If the complaint is that the
release of Chronicles has flooded the market with similar cards, then I
have to qualify that you aren't considering the edition the card is from
which is more important as a *collectability* issue. The value of cards
as they are being traded, as far as I can see, is primarily focused on 4E
cards, and I would venture to say that most people are not buying these
cards for collectability, but rather for game play: they need the cards
to put in their decks. The cards that are being traded for collections
are the Alphas, Betas, and the original expansions like Dark and Legends.
: This
: is life. It could be worse. I guess what I don't understand is the fact that
: some people don't want new players to get cards that are "older" or out of
: print. I want to see everyone have as many cards as possible. Then, we could
: really test the skill of a player. I know that a big part of the whole Magic
: experience is in the trading, but there's nothing wrong with WOtC helping the
: newer players by reprinting cards that no one is willing to part with, or that
: will cost them so much they could never afford it. I guess my point is, if you
: take Magic as an investement, learn to deal with the losses. If you take it as
: a game, enjoy the new releases.
Yes, this is sound advice, and I agree that Magic shouldn't be restricted
to a clique of people that got into the game when it was introduced, and
all others have to live with crappy cards. However, I think the issue
of the value of the different revisions has been totally glossed over,
and that if you intend to try to collect 4E, you'll be forced to suffer
the capricious whims of the traders that trade to play the game. If you
really want to collect, collect the OOP cards and the original set.
I think I need to add these disclaimers: I am in no way associated with
Wizards of the Coast, _Inquest_ or _Scrye_, and have no personal
knowledge of said organizations' business practices or strategies,
nor am I in any way an expert in business or economics (in fact I
slept through economics and settled for my 'D' in the class). I claim
no responsibility for anything any of the above organizations say or do, and
they should (and would) probably do the same to me. Do not taunt
Happy Fun Ball. Hail Eris! No man is an island unto himself. And
sometimes "Y".
***************************************************************************
Tim Drozinski | Annoying Person #8319 | t...@db.erau.edu
>>>>>>>> The Great and Powerful Droz has Spoken! >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Pay no attention to the man behind the keyboard....) >>>>>>>>
Droz | | dr...@db.erau.edu
***************************************************************************
Nathan Engle
>I agree with it being a slap in the face not just to collectors but to anyone
>who has played magic since the begining
I've been in since AQ - not quite the beginning but close enough.
Personally when I saw the announcement of Chronicles nearly a year before its
release a little voice in my head told me instinctively what was going to
happen to the monetary value of those OOP expansions. IMO WotC did NOT need
to post anything saying explicitly "If monetary loss is an issue for you then
sell out while you still can".
IMO the people who feel slapped in the face right now are the ones who
spent that intervening year sitting on their hands in a state of denial. Sure,
there were surprises - I was a little disappointed that Preacher and Skull of
Orm didn't make it into CH, but I believe that I had more than enough warning
to prepare for the inevitable and therefore my losses were negligible.
>And to the peolple who think it is wrong to collect magic for money or
>reasons other than fun this-OPEN YOUR MIND
I would never say that it's morally wrong to collect Magic for money. I
myself am in the black as far as the money I've spent on Magic. Of course, I
was listening when WotC dropped the Big Hint, and I'm sure that anybody who
wasn't has now found out about their lousy investment strategy.
As far as I'm concerned Magic speculators might do well to read a little
bit of history about railroad and real estate speculation. Not everyone who
plunks down their savings for a speculative investment is going to turn into a
millionaire. You have to keep your ear to the ground and be prepared to shift
your strategy when it's clear that a down-turn is inevitable.
> Just because it is not what you believe in doesn't mean it isn't right
Just so. The thing that makes Magic a poor investment has nothing to do
with my druthers. The thing that makes it a poor long-term investment is
just what you have discovered. Sometimes the prices go down. There have
clearly been bubbles in which a profit could be made, but you needed to be
both attentive and flexible in order to take advantage of them.
--
Nathan Engle Electron Juggler
Indiana University Dept of Psychology
nen...@indiana.edu http://nickel.ucs.indiana.edu/~nengle/home.html
"Carpe Diem"
Stephen Frazza
wrong
to collect magic for money or reasons other than fun this-OPEN YOUR MIND-there
is more in life than just one way to do things.I play Magic to play and for the
fun of it but I am not so closed minded that I cannot respect the ways of
collectors and investors.Just because it is not what you believe in doesn't
Cory Johnson
: I agree with it being a slap in the face not just to collectors but to anyone
It's not that it isn't right to COLLECT the cards, or to do it for other
reasons than fun, the issue is that some ppl start believing that because
they collect the cards for money, WotC *OWES* them. This creates the same
problem as those wonderful xtian _fundamentalists_ (not lumping ALL
Christians in here, don't flame), WotC gets scared and dumps Magic
altogether, then *NO ONE* has anything....You see, if enough ppl wrote
letters like this one to WotC, they may decide the abuse just isn't worth
the minscule profit (after advertising, printing, salary, and other
expenses). I really don't care if you shred the cards and smoke them for
good luck before a tourney. (I've been told Hurloons are best for this,
but hey....;) ) Just please understand that no person is *OWED*
anything by WotC, me, you, etc. unless you borrow their bicycle. *grin*
SnowDog
][ I agree with it being a slap in the face not just to collectors but to
How the _hell_ is it a slap in the face to people who have been playing
magic "since the beginning?" When did Wizards promise not to reprint
cards? When did Wizards promise not to change rarities in subsequent
reprintings? Why is Chronicles more of a slap in the face than the
standard rotation into the "revised" mix?
][ And to the peolple who think it is wrong to collect magic for money
Two concepts here you're getting confused. "Collect" and "for money."
Big difference. I collect Rush albums. I would like to someday have
all the Rush albums on Vinyl, but for now I'm happy that I have them all
on tape. If they re-released "Fly by Night" would I get angry? No.
Money making is NOT a motivation to a COLLECTOR. The word collector comes
from the root word "collect", which as a verb means to go out, find things,
and keep them, basically. Not go out, find things, wait until other people
want them, and sell them at a huge profit. That's something else entirely.
][ I am not so closed minded that I cannot respect the ways of
][ collectors and investors.
Again, don't group "collectors" and "investors" (read speculators) in the
same group of people. There's a BIG difference.
Let's use your term. Investor. What is an investor? An investor puts
money into something, with the knowledge that he is taking a risk.
He acts on an idea that he might be able to make some money by spending
some. If he can, he's "won." If he can't, he's "lost." It happens
all the time. There is a touch of professionalism that comes with
being an investory--an ability to accept a loss incurred through a
bad investment. The people who are pissing and moaning about Chronicles
aren't investors. They're people who thought they could make an
easy buck and were denied that oppurtunity. But don't think they
_lost_ money--they just won't make as much as they had hoped. They
have NO right to complain to WotC for doing exactly what they said they
had the right to do.
--
"Across the River Styx, out of the lamplight, His nemesis is waiting at the
gate. The Snow Dog, ermine glowing in the damp night, Coal-black eyes
shimmering with hate." Rush, By-Tor and The Snow Dog, Fly by Night
Christopher A. Erwin
MJX...@prodigy.com (Gail Johnson) writes:
>
>To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
>
>
>Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
>Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
>with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
>up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
>and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
>as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
>to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
>where the value decreases?
>
>are for doing this because of the advantages it gives newer players. That
>the older cards (as we are supposed to do) and bought a few too (might I
>point out that this is the logic behind "collectability") and now you
>have screwed me! By the way, since you are so high and mighty on
>remind you of the time your customer service rep told me that partial
>shipments don't exist and that the price on a pack of Dark was never
>raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you guys full of it! Don't
>try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
>are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run
>a business or what the words "customer service" mean.
>
>mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
>by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
>
make an investment (as you have done by purchasing cards and looking at their
market value), you have taken a risk. By definition, this means it may not
iting certain cards and banning others, thus making their value skyrocket. Now,
they have done something that hurts you. I hate to say it, but suck it up. This
is life. It could be worse. I guess what I don't understand is the fact that
some people don't want new players to get cards that are "older" or out of
print. I want to see everyone have as many cards as possible. Then, we could
really test the skill of a player. I know that a big part of the whole Magic
experience is in the trading, but there's nothing wrong with WOtC helping the
newer players by reprinting cards that no one is willing to part with, or that
will cost them so much they could never afford it. I guess my point is, if you
take Magic as an investement, learn to deal with the losses. If you take it as
a game, enjoy the new releases.
Chris
ce7...@american.edu
Josh Freedman
> Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
> Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
> with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
> up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
> and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
> as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
> to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
> where the value decreases?
> mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
> by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
Chronicles does both add and take away somethings from the game of Magic.
Since I never really owned any legends, antiquities, or arabians, I am
happy to be able to get some. However, the price is the loss of innocence.
I, as most people I know, used to think these cards were cool. It meant
something to have one of these cards. A few of my friends had some rare
cards from these sets. Every time I see a tetravus I think of my friend
Dave. That was a card that defined him and his style of play. Now that
Tetravus is reprinted in the 4th edition, it has lost some of that luster.
How many carrion ants do you see now? It takes the fun out of the game a
bit when everyone has the same cards. Granted, I am extremely happy to be
able to play with them myself, but they no longer hold the mystic quality
that they used to. When my friends play with a card that only I had before,
It makes it less special. Now I know I will get flamed for saying this, but
I don't care. These type of rare cards are not game breakers. They were just
special because not everyone had one! Chronicles and rotation does this. It
is just a point I want to make. Overall I am pleased with chronicles and
4th edition.
The only fault that I can find with Wizards of the Coast is the amount of
products they are trying to produce. I think they are genuinely interested
in what their customers have to say. After all they have a few Netreps who
take the time to answer so many of our questions, and respond to so many
of our complaints! My problem with Wizards is why they continue to develop
new products when they can't even meet the demand for the ones currently in
production. Just think, in October when homelands is release, they will
have 4 sets currently in print!! That is way to many. The average player
can't keep up with this. Personally, I don't own to many ice age cards.
I don't want to pay more than retail. Sure I bought a few packs to see
what they are like, but I can't find more! Wizards IS responsible for
keeping the prices inflated. The product dries up to fast. They only ship
once a month I believe for each product. If Ice age and chronicles had not
been released yet and 4th edition was all that had been printed, then there
would be a good enough supply around to satisfy players. Most people I know
like to buy a box or two of each product. That isn't possible at most
places. The supply isn't there. You can buy 1/3 of a box of 4th edition,
Ice age, and chronicles. That's what is out there. I can sympathise with
WotC that they can't print the cards fast enough, but their decsion to
have multiple products printing at once is their own fault. Get a good
supply of ONE product out. That way demand will be satisfied and retail
prices will prevail. Instead of creating 1 market at a time, they created
3 or 4. They can't come close to meeting the demand for these markets.
They don't make any more money when a pack sells for more than retail, so
releasing only 1 set at a time won't cost them anything. I can't keep up
with all the new sets, neither can any of the players I know. Ask yourself
this, do you have all of the 4th edition cards that you would like? I bet
the majority will answer no!
Flame away please
Shawn Wallace
a few cards to put into their deck now that they can get a reprint of the
card for a few cents? You missed your point sure its a collectible card
game but thats it its just a game. It seems there are 2 types of magic
collectors 1 the collector player which should be easy to figure out or
the 2nd in the collector collector/leech who has to encase each black
bordered card in 3 layers of plastic to make certain it can get near mint
price once the print run is stopped and those are the ones who kill off a
hobby and not the company that produces it. Companies only produce what
they can sell due to the demand of many not just for a few individuals.
I saw what speculators, as you seem to be, do to the comic industry 2
years ago and its a good thing idiots who subscribe to that are out of it
and the real readers/fan/collectors are sticking with it. If your so
enraged just burn your cards and walk away from it then. Since they are
only pieces of cardboard with some pretty pictures on them now with all
the reprints out, otherwise just shut up.
Steve
;>
;>> Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long
Crack!
"Get up Silver!"
Crack! Crack!
"Get up Horse!"
"Crack! Crack!
"Tarnation what's wrong with this horse?!? Whupn' it always worked
before!"
"That's because it didn't have an "Alpo" lable on it before Kemosave."
;>The only fault that I can find with Wizards of the Coast is the amount
No flame necessary. Its a valid point. I know store owners in my area
that are so put out with the distribution of Magic as of late that they
are thinking of offering a starter deck of any other game for any 60
Magic cards; limit one per person. Maybe I'll try Mortal Kombat or
Echlons of Fury. Their only Benaldish Heros and Scathe Zombies.
stev
--
The Monkey Boy laughs while he can!
Bill Stripp
>> up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
>> and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
>> as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
>> to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
>> where the value decreases?
Most people I know who truely collect, do so for the joy of getting the
collection. It has *nothing* to do with the $$$$$$ value since they are
not going to sell anyway. The collector does so to have the product. Your
comments smack of speculation, which I believe will be the death of the
game. Magic cards are not like stock, although too often they are treated
that way.
If you speculate in a market you are taking a risk. It is not guaranteed
that you will make a profit. If you collect things for only their dollar
value, you also take a risk. The person who collects for the joy of having
a set has no risk or interest in the seconday market. I'm betting you have
10 boxes of Fallen that you bought as well at retail... ooops ;-)
>> As for your partial shipments: Fourth edition? I would think that would
>> mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
>> by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
You should be happy. The scarcity will drive the value of the cards up.
You are complaining out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand *you*
want access to an unlimited supply of cards, but want them to remain scarce
for everyone else so that there is value in them. Sorry, it doesn't work
both ways.
>My problem with Wizards is why they continue to develop
>new products when they can't even meet the demand for the ones currently in
>production. Just think, in October when homelands is release, they will
>have 4 sets currently in print!! That is way to many. The average player
>can't keep up with this.
Actually I like to see the products somewhat scarce. The game was a lot
more fun when every player didn't rush out and buy 2-3 boxes of cards. Why?
Well you could actually trade something other than a mox or lotus. Uncommon
cards could be traded for rares and people didn't place a $$$$$ amount on
every card and collection.
People had to work at making interesting decks and had a limited supply of
spoilers. It made for a better play environment.
>Most people I know like to buy a box or two of each product. That isn't
>possible at most places. The supply isn't there. You can buy 1/3 of a box
>of 4th edition, Ice age, and chronicles. That's what is out there.
Which is great! I got some Ice Age and have been having a ball trading with
them. People want them since they can't get an unlimited supply and actually
go through the motions of trading to get them. I figure that in a short time
everyone will have their 3-4 boxes of Ice Age and they will be as tradable as
Fallen with 2 or 3 cards being actively traded.
>I can't keep up
>with all the new sets, neither can any of the players I know. Ask yourself
>this, do you have all of the 4th edition cards that you would like? I bet
>the majority will answer no!
Once again this is great! Ask yourself if you *need* any more cards? I would
hope not. I have enough to last me and all of my children several years. I
am content to get my 1/2 box and trade for the cards I want. Don't keep up
with the sets. Get some of each and trade for what you need. It's a lot
more fun that way.
>Flame away please
No thanks, just a bit of disagreement.
Midwest Bill
Thomas Verschueren
As far as the so-called "collectors" (read card and money grabbing
mercenairies) go, CH is probably a kick in the vitals. No more evil
grins and happy thoughts of large amounts of easy money as a newbie
approaches them and asks if they have an Erhnam Djinn for sale, for
this newbie can now turn to his also newbie friend and ask what he
wants for his Erhnam Djinn he just got in his booster of CH.
The real collectors can hope to get the original versions of the cards
in CH a bit easier since demand for them will have dropped
dramatically. The people in this category probably don't care if WoTC
reprinted Cyclone, as long as they have the AN version, which as
already mentioned they can now get a lot cheaper because of CH.
Magic players don't have to go to their local Don "Collector", kiss
the soles of his shoes and then spray him with money anymore. You
want three Juxtaposes for that nasty swap deck you've always dreamed
about, but didn't have the money to get them, don't worry, just buy a
booster of CH. If there isn't a Juxtapose in it, there probably is
another card in it you can trade evenly for one.
What I'm trying to say with this far to long drivel, is that CH and 4E
seems like a good deal for the people who have Magic as a hobby,
either as player or honest collector. And as far as the "collectors"
are concerned, though luck. Who needs them anyway.
Thomas Verschueren | Ai...Ai...
Belgium, Antwerp | The elements obey me not!
bart...@glo.be | I sink... (Percy Shelly)
Thomas Verschueren
Addison Godel
Gail Johnson, once again demonstrating the severe lack of intelligence
Prodigy users have, wrote:
MJ>To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
MJ>Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
>Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
>with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
>up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
>and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
>as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
>to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
>where the value decreases?
Collecting does not mean getting something valuable and selling it.
Collecting means getting sets of something you like. A full set of
1995 Ronald McDonald toys may not be worth much money to you and me, but
to a collector of such things, it's unsellable. Collectability means
you can get a set of it. That's all. That's why McDonald ads can say,
"Collect all 5." You can COLLECT all five.
What is the point of collecting something where the value decreases?
Simple. The satisfaction of knowing you've gotten the set you wanted.
MJ>Now I am sure that you can sit here for hours and tell me how great
>you
>are for doing this because of the advantages it gives newer players. That
>is a crock. As a "not so old player", I went out and traded heavily for
>the older cards (as we are supposed to do) and bought a few too (might I
>point out that this is the logic behind "collectability") and now you
>have screwed me! By the way, since you are so high and mighty on
>yourselves thinking that you did such a great thing, I would like to
>remind you of the time your customer service rep told me that partial
>shipments don't exist and that the price on a pack of Dark was never
>raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you guys full of it! Don't
>try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
>are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run
>a business or what the words "customer service" mean.
Your "logic" is severly flawed. First, as I said, you have completely
messed up the definition of collectability. Second, you have mistaken
the price Wizards sells to distributors for the price the distributors
sell to stores and the price stores sell to you. If they said the price
of a Dark pack wasn't raised, they're telling the truth, because the
price for their distributors didn't change. Third, Wizards doesn't
control the distributors (who aren't screwing store owners, which would
put them out of business). Fourth, if you think Customer Service means
"telling Gail Johnson what she wants to hear and wording everything so
she can, even with her apparently microscopic brain, interpret it
perfectly," then fine. Go live your life that way...
Frankly, Gail, you would have a lot less anger if you actually become
informed about topics before deciding that your first assumption must be
right. You would be actually worth talking to on this issue if you knew
what you were talking about.
Sigh.
---===Volatios===---
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Read the Ultra Team on rec.arts.comics.creative!
David W. Brunberg
>
>Gail Johnson, once again demonstrating the severe lack of intelligence
>Prodigy users have, wrote:
>
>MJ>To Whoever May Care AT WOC (which is probably no one):
>
>
>MJ>Chronicles is nothing but a slap in the face to collectors and long time
> >Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
> >with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
> >up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
> >and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
> >as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
> >to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
> >where the value decreases?
>
>Collecting does not mean getting something valuable and selling it.
>Collecting means getting sets of something you like. A full set of
>1995 Ronald McDonald toys may not be worth much money to you and me, but
>to a collector of such things, it's unsellable. Collectability means
>you can get a set of it. That's all. That's why McDonald ads can say,
>"Collect all 5." You can COLLECT all five.
Come off it. I seriously doubt that at any point in the intermediate future
(like, less than a thousand years) that Ronald McDonald merchandise will have any
sort of monetary value. That's simply a poor example, although I mostly agree
with you. However, you seem to think that collecting entails nothing but gaining
the satisfaction of having a set of whatever you're collecting. If you really
believe that any of us who collect seriously aren't looking for some sort of
payback on our investments (some in the thousands of dollars) then you're missing
something.
Of course, I agree that Chronicles does not reduce the monetary value of, say, a
particular legend. Obviously, the Alpha cards haven't gone DOWN in price because
of the Beta, Unlimited, Revised and 4E printings, quite the contrary. I don't
think we have much to worry about in the way of devaluation of cards from the
original, black-bordered expansion sets.
Do we need to be so damn rude? Seriously, Volatios, we would all take you more
seriously if you wouldn't do that. Denegrating other people in this manner does
nothing for your credibility. Telling other people they're stupid reflects far
more badly on you than the target of your flame.
>
>---===Volatios===---
>---
> * OLXWin 1.00a * Read the Ultra Team on rec.arts.comics.creative!
Dave Brunberg
"It is better to have a gun and not need one than to
need a gun and not have one."
--I can't remember.
Steve
"Get up Silver! Get up horse!"
CRACK! CRACK!
"Get up you lazy horse!"
CRACK! CRACK! CRACK!
"TARNATION! Whuppin' this here horse always made it move before!"
"That's because it didn't have an 'ALPO' lable on it before Kemosave."
Translation for the sarcasm impaired:
This topic has been beaten into the ground, ergo the dead horse analogy
(which contains the word anal because in this case it is clearly
established that opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one and they
all stink), and will do no good because the only way that Wizards will
stop printing Chronicles is when people stop buying it. People who love
will not convince people who hate to change their minds and visa versa.
It doesn't matter how you feel other people should spend their money
unless you're the dictator of a communist country. We've heard it all
before. Can we move on please?
This has been my opinion and it stinks too.
Josh Freedman
>
> Actually I like to see the products somewhat scarce. The game was a lot
> more fun when every player didn't rush out and buy 2-3 boxes of cards. Why?
Not a questions of buying 2-3 boxes, hell I can't find any Ice age starter
decks, let alone boxes! Many places I know still have trouble keeping
4th edition in stock!
> Which is great! I got some Ice Age and have been having a ball trading with
> them. People want them since they can't get an unlimited supply and actually
> go through the motions of trading to get them. I figure that in a short time
> everyone will have their 3-4 boxes of Ice Age and they will be as tradable as
> Fallen with 2 or 3 cards being actively traded.
Not true. You came pretty close to a complete set with 1 box of Fallen empires
If distribution was perfect you would need 121 packs or just over 3.33 boxes
of Ice age to get a set! Even then cards will be actively traded. If you
want 2 or 3 of a certain rare to make a deck, odds are you won't have them!
> Once again this is great! Ask yourself if you *need* any more cards? I would
> hope not. I have enough to last me and all of my children several years. I
> am content to get my 1/2 box and trade for the cards I want. Don't keep up
> with the sets. Get some of each and trade for what you need. It's a lot
> more fun that way.
It's not that easy. How can you trade for something when no one has it!
Even so, most people I know won't trade a card if it is the only one they
have. That means you need duplicates to trade. As far as needing more cards
no one needs more cards! They simply wish to have more. Especially with
Ice age. So many of the cards are duplicates of the regular set. When you
buy a pack of Ice age you really don't get 15 new cards. So if you wish
to get 100 new cards you would probably need to buy more than 100 cards!
James Hanley
>
>
>Magic players.
Sorry, I am a long time magic player and collector and I do not feel that
Chronicles is a slap in the face, in fact I think the reprinting of these
cards is great. Now not only can I play decks with multiples of cards that
until recently owned one of, but now all those non-long standing players,
can also play with some good cards and magic is about having fun not about
making money.
>For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up with various amounts
>of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put up with this BS of partial
>shipments of new expansions but now you take and reissue the cards we spent so
>much time, effort and money collecting as we watch the value of our collection
>plumet.
Gee I suppose WotC should get down on bended knee and thank you for your loyal
support. You make it sound like the reissuing of cards is a crime, well it is
not. Listen real close to this WotC owe you nothing, they owe the secondry card
market nothing, in fact it is the other way round. WotC could decide that the
secondry markert was bad and slap some legal jargon on their product making it
illegal to resell M:TG or other trade marked items. Ypur cards are worth money
only because WotC has not taken action to close the secondry market, now say
thank you to the nice games company.
>Was this not supposed to be a collectable card game? What is the point of
>collecting something where the value decreases?
Hey you knew the risks when you bought the cards WotC have always been up
front about their intensions to republish and circulate old cards.
Whats the point in collecting, I don't know you tell me?
>Now I am sure that you can sit here for hours and tell me how great you
>are for doing this because of the advantages it gives newer players.
Not hours I do have better things to be doing.
>That is a crock.
I know lots of new players who are real happy about Chronicles, maybe
they are all wrong, perhaps it is you who is right, heres your chance to
impress, on you go sparky.
>As a "not so old player", I went out and traded heavily for the older cards
>(as we are supposed to do)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As we are supposed to do???????????
What ever gave you that idea, its not in the rules or anything WotC has ever
said, but if they had I'd say that was unfair 'what just started, screw you
pay through the nose for cards' I know I would not play if that was the way
things worked, the only place Ican think you got that idea is from the secondry
market, but then they are bound to promote that sort of thinking because its
suckers like you who pay them large amounts of cash.
>and bought a few too (might I point out that this is the logic behind
>"collectability") and now you have screwed me!
No good buddy, you screwed yourself (watch out you'll go blind :)WotC have
never encouraged anyone to buy cards on the secondry market, they are not
to blame.
>By the way, since you are so high and mighty on yourselves thinking that you
>did such a great thing, I would like to remind you of the time your customer
>service rep told me that partial shipments don't exist and that the price on
>a pack of Dark was never raised within one week after shipment. Boy are you
>guys full of it!
>Don't try to blame it on the stores either. I know how much your distributors
>are screwing the store owners. This is sick. You have no clue how to run a
>business or what the words "customer service" mean.
No clue on how to run a buisness, do you have any conception of how big magic
is and rich Mr. Garfield (bless his little cotton socks) must be.
No good at buisness, BWAH HA HA HA HA!
>As for your partial shipments: Fourth edition? I would think that would
>mean I could run down to the store and get a starter deck now, right? And
>by the way, Where the &#*$ is my Ice Age?!
If my editor has not lost the rest of this letter and this is how you are
sighing off, then words fail me.
On the Ice Age point, if you don't have any think on this I've got loads.
Night, night children, time for sleep.
This has been a public service message brought to you by the MENTEL COOPERATION
What does that have to do with anything, nothing really I've just alwats wanted
to say it.
Astragaal.
Peter Stuer
<jo...@mit.edu> wrote:
> Chronicles does both add and take away somethings from the game of Magic.
Good post. I feel this way too. Although I have none of the old OOP's,
they added some aura to the game. There seemed to be things a bit
mystical, some ancient and rare spells you'd heard about but never had
seen. Now I have the feeling that everything is more or less common (even
the cards that aren't yet rotated), and that it is now just a game where
you look at the complete cardlist and construct a deck.
And yes, I know that for some (many?) it was always like this (those
spending heaps on cards, or those who have been in the game from the
start), but for most (some?) players, who only buy a booster now and then,
there were the things you had, and then there were the things (still)
beyond your reach.
Well, maybe it is just a temporary feeling. Once's you've seen them all
hit the table a few times, the magic goes away ...
OTOH My chronicals boosters (2 so far :-) provided me on average with more
cards I'm going to use in decks than any of the other sets.
________________________________________________________________________________
Peter Stuer pet...@arti.vub.ac.be
Cedric Chin
|>
|> The only fault that I can find with Wizards of the Coast is the amount of
|> products they are trying to produce. I think they are genuinely interested
|> in what their customers have to say. After all they have a few Netreps who
|> take the time to answer so many of our questions, and respond to so many
|> new products when they can't even meet the demand for the ones currently in
|> production. Just think, in October when homelands is release, they will
|> have 4 sets currently in print!! That is way to many. The average player
|> can't keep up with this.
In a perverse way, the schizophrenic supply of Magic cards fulfills Richard
"Marbles" Garfield's vision that no person should have "all the cards".
BTW, pre-order. Gameaholics is 1-800-GAME-CLUB.
Cedric.
Cedric Chin
No, YOU come off it. As a collector, I have absolutely no intention of parting
with my collections, even if they do have worth. And I'm holding onto my Commons
in my collection, even if they **don't** have worth. Not all collectors are
speculators.
|> >Frankly, Gail, you would have a lot less anger if you actually become
|> >informed about topics before deciding that your first assumption must be
|> >right. You would be actually worth talking to on this issue if you knew
|> >what you were talking about.
|> >
|> >Sigh.
|>
|> Do we need to be so damn rude?
Well... sure! (:
|> Seriously, Volatios, we would all take you more
|> seriously if you wouldn't do that. Denegrating other people in this manner does
|> nothing for your credibility. Telling other people they're stupid reflects far
|> more badly on you than the target of your flame.
I'd take more people seriously if they didn't use "people" and "collectors" when
they mean "ME". I'm also peeved at people who think Magic is an "investment" when
it's really the subset of "asset speculation" (like gold and silver).
Cedric.
Tahelia C Powe
(though the original art is my all-time favorite art, and the new one
is, well...never mind; my mother said if you can't say something nice,
don't say it at all, and I know I've seen at least one artist posting
here, so...) was a big KICK in the pants for me. I should have been
more decisive, I guess, and sold those cards I wasn't using before
they were ruined by reprints. What really burns is that they didn't
even bother to make cards that were originally rare remain rare; no,
they had to insult us further by making them uncommon. Oh, yeah, so
I DO say some negative things, but I won't attack an artist--anymore.
At the same time that I suffer this indignation (and mostly because
my little stockpile of cards was supposed to help me out if cash ever
got low and I got desperate, and because trading away for moxes and a
lotus has nearly depleted my reserves of trade-worthies), I was pleased
to get a Chromium in the one pack I bought. I'd only managed to get
an Arcades Sabboth when Legends came and went in the space of a few
hours, so I was rather happy...which changed to just mildly pleased when
I found out there were NO RARES, which I supposed made my Arcades now no
better than an uncommon, black border or no. Basically, what I'm trying
to say is that my reaction is quite mixed.
Maybe I'm not fit to run a collectible card game, but I keep seeing
really silly decisions being made...you make something like Reverse
Polarity (ugh) a rare, then make Elder Dragons uncommon. I still like
MtG, but stuff like this, and the price hike, and keeping their grubby
little hands on Ice Ages until the hike is in effect, really irritate
me, and I'll bet I'm not the only one. Folks, ask anyone on the
Elfquest newsgroups, and they'll tell you I stopped buying comic books
when they got to be more than $1. Will WotC force me out of Magic, too?
Minimage, the disgruntled
Cedric Chin
In article <tcpowe00....@mik.uky.edu>, tcpo...@mik.uky.edu (Tahelia C Powe) writes:
>
> I must admit Chronicles (as well as 4ed reprint of Icy Manipulator
>(though the original art is my all-time favorite art, and the new one
>is, well...never mind; my mother said if you can't say something nice,
>don't say it at all, and I know I've seen at least one artist posting
>here, so...) was a big KICK in the pants for me. I should have been
>more decisive, I guess, and sold those cards I wasn't using before
>they were ruined by reprints. What really burns is that they didn't
>even bother to make cards that were originally rare remain rare; no,
>they had to insult us further by making them uncommon.
I think one of the big mistakes people make in "investing" in Magic,
is that it's even worse than investing in money! Magic is an asset-based
investment. It's like gold and silver in that it's only worth what
people will pay for it. It's also a collectable-based investment.
It has value to only a small amount of people It's worse than investing
in currency: most governments are loathe to print more of its currency
for fear of ruining their economy. WotC has an **incentive** to print
high-demand cards because otherwise someone else would be making the $$$.
> At the same time that I suffer this indignation (and mostly because
>my little stockpile of cards was supposed to help me out if cash ever
>got low and I got desperate, and because trading away for moxes and a
>lotus has nearly depleted my reserves of trade-worthies),
Investment is like gambling, only with different levels of risk.
>I was pleased
>to get a Chromium in the one pack I bought. I'd only managed to get
>an Arcades Sabboth when Legends came and went in the space of a few
>hours, so I was rather happy...which changed to just mildly pleased when
>I found out there were NO RARES, which I supposed made my Arcades now no
>better than an uncommon, black border or no. Basically, what I'm trying
>to say is that my reaction is quite mixed.
My two bits is that Magic cards will become valuable based on it's
playability, not it's rarity. Then it will be a game of the players,
not the speculators.
> Maybe I'm not fit to run a collectible card game, but I keep seeing
>really silly decisions being made...you make something like Reverse
>Polarity (ugh) a rare, then make Elder Dragons uncommon. I still like
>MtG, but stuff like this, and the price hike, and keeping their grubby
>little hands on Ice Ages until the hike is in effect, really irritate
>me, and I'll bet I'm not the only one. Folks, ask anyone on the
>Elfquest newsgroups, and they'll tell you I stopped buying comic books
>when they got to be more than $1. Will WotC force me out of Magic, too?
Sure. It's 20% price hike will prevent me from routinely buying cards.
It's slow policy of making the most powerful cards Commons and Uncommons
will prevent me from buying an excessive number of packs (but that's a good
thing).
Besides, you must have enough cards to play the darn game. Enjoy what you
have and don't look at Magic as an "investment".
Cedric.
HCS...@uacsc2.albany.edu
cc...@CS.Stanford.EDU (Cedric Chin) writes:
>No, YOU come off it. As a collector, I have absolutely no intention of parting
>with my collections, even if they do have worth. And I'm holding onto my Commons
>in my collection, even if they **don't** have worth. Not all collectors are
>speculators.
>
>they mean "ME". I'm also peeved at people who think Magic is an "investment" when
>it's really the subset of "asset speculation" (like gold and silver).
>
>Cedric.
Michael J. Gosselin
their decsion to have multiple products printing at once is their own fault.
Get a good supply of ONE product out. That way demand will be satisfied and
retail prices will prevail.
I can understand not wanting to have so many cards in print, but that does
not inflate prices. What brings up prices is the person who buys from a
distributor at $40, then sells to a card store at $75. The card store can't
sell at $2.45, because that will net about $0.40 per pack, or a markup of
25%. Retailers cannot cover their overhead on that small a margin, so they
sell a box at $150, or about $4 per pack (I'm using approximates here, and
booster packs).
--MJG
David Schwartz
>Come off it. I seriously doubt that at any point in the intermediate future
>(like, less than a thousand years) that Ronald McDonald merchandise will have any
>sort of monetary value. That's simply a poor example, although I mostly agree
>with you. However, you seem to think that collecting entails nothing but gaining
>the satisfaction of having a set of whatever you're collecting. If you really
>believe that any of us who collect seriously aren't looking for some sort of
>payback on our investments (some in the thousands of dollars) then you're missing
>something.
You come off it. True collectors aren't in it for the money. I'm
sure everybody knows at least half a dozen people who collect small
things for no particular reason. I know people who collect hippos,
rhinos, pigs, mice, smurfs... Nothing special just little plastic/
ceramic/glass knick-knacks. They're collectors, not investors. And
even if something does have value, it still may not be an 'invest-
ment'. Take the Franklin Mint. Sure their commeroritive plates aren't
guaranteed to go up in value, but all previous ones have. But who
buys commemoritive plates to resell? No, most people buy them cause
they like Elvis, or cute animals, or big eyed children. You're del-
uding yourself if you think that all collectors are out to make a
profit. But you're just as wrong to think that all of them are not.
The horse is dead, long live the horse...
--
Nate Smith
> > >Magic players. For many moons we have been faithful to you and put up
> > >with various amounts of your crap. It is bad enough that we have to put
> > >up with this BS of partial shipments of new expansions but now you take
> > >and reissue the cards we spent so much time, effort and money collecting
> > >as we watch the value of our collection plumet. Was this not supposed
> > >to be a collectable card game? What is the point of collecting something
> > >where the value decreases?
I have one question? Why don't people spend more time *playing* instead of
worrying about this. I like Chronicles, it gives newer people a chance to get
some good cards to *play* with, not throw in an album in hopes of selling them.
Magic: the Gathering *is* a great game, but no matter what, trading card games
are now a *trend*. Yes, people played them before now, and will be playing
them long after, but like the role-playing boom in the eighties, eventually it
will die down and your precious collections will slowly depreciate. In a
market as narrow as trading card games, prices are going to be ridiculous, and
then they will die down. I have cards, and I play with them. Are some of them
valuable? Probably, but that's not *why* I collect them, I do it because I
like to open up packages of stuff and then see what I get.
Second of all, yes it is *supposed* to be a collectable card game, and more
importantly, it *is* a collectable card game. Let's see, you can get more than
1 card, and there are many different ones. Collecting is based on gathering an
appreciating a number of items that *you like*, what you're referring to is
investment, and I don't think that WotC saw it as an investment to it's
players.
Nate
Nathan Smith - One of the many fine folks on alt.pinecone
E-mail: Smi...@Meena.CC.URegina.Ca
WWW: http://Meena.CC.URegina.Ca/~smithn/
Sparky!!
> I can sympathise with WotC that they can't print the cards fast enough, but
> their decsion to have multiple products printing at once is their own fault.
> Get a good supply of ONE product out. That way demand will be satisfied and
> retail prices will prevail.
Again, we plan 8 months in advance, and our contracts are less flexible than
we'd like right now.
You'll notice that you haven't heard what's coming after Homelands....
--
Marc Schmalz, aka Sparky!!
Wizards of the Coast Customer Service Team
spa...@castle.wizards.com