Updated Reprints from the Camarilla Edition
The Lasombra
Updated Reprints
Some of the reprints in The Camarilla Edition (some in boosters and
some only found in the pre-con starters) function differently than
they did in previous printings. Naturally, any card that had errata is
reprinted with the errata incorporated in card text. The list below
doesn't include those changes.
Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase.
Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior
only once each combat.
Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool.
Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's
strength (and are therefore hand strikes)
Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions
Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood.
Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal
agg damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a
standard strike).
Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking.
Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood.
Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger
vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect).
Drain Essence: costs 1 blood.
Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with
yourself).
Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution.
Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar
Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is
limited to 4 blood.
Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool.
Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1
strength.
Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire
Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7.
Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any
amount of agg damage.
Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option.
Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during
the master phase, not the minion phase.
Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be
repaid.
Louvre, Paris: no cost
Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior).
Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood.
Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding
Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn
option.
Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain
flight.
Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no
Ventrue.
Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1)
during your untap phase.
Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters
Psychic Projection: is put in play.
Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a
strike.
Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped
vampire.
Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade.
Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1.
Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game.
Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique.
Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost.
Weather Control: only one each combat.
Halcyan 2
>amount of agg damage.
>
I'm curious whether Cold Iron weapons (which does agg to Kiasyd) would be a
legal target for ISS.
Halcyan 2
LSJ
No. It is worded with the "normal strike" verbage, like Concealed Weapon.
It doesn't consider special cases for the striker nor the strikee (nor the
combat - e.g, Dawn Operation).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
tetragrammaton
"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:132cdedd.02072...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Preview_CEReprints.html
>
Let's see :
> Updated Reprints
<snip>
> Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase.
>
fine
> Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior
> only once each combat.
fine
>
> Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool.
>
mmh, never used, should be just fine
> Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's
> strength (and are therefore hand strikes)
?? can't see the reason for this. it seems a big change
in thaumathurgy matters....
>
> Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions
>
fine
> Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood.
>
both inferior and superior ?
if so, presence is now pretty de-powered by the CE
> Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal
> agg damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a
> standard strike).
Fine, althought i hope that the definition for "Standard strike" has been
implemented in the rule booklet
>
> Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking.
>
Fine and logic
> Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood.
>
fine
> Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger
> vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect).
>
Some controversials arised from what "play"/"place"
terms should mean here. fine anyway.
> Drain Essence: costs 1 blood.
>
mm, another big change in tha matters.
maybe this way is less wallpaper
> Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with
> yourself).
logic and fine.
>
> Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution.
>
??can't see the reason why here too.
anyway maybe it's a (osuvre) balance matter
> Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar
guess it's ok
>
> Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is
> limited to 4 blood.
fine, maybe the blood gain could be raised to 5.
>
> Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool.
>
fine
> Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1
> strength.
logic and fine.
>
> Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire
>
fine
> Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7.
>
fine
> Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any
> amount of agg damage.
far more useful right now :-)
.>
> Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option.
>
> Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during
> the master phase, not the minion phase.
imho, this seems a little mistake: in order to re-balance the card, the
burning should have
been assigned to the untap phase (much like antedeluvian awakening does).
this way, it can be still too much a game winner.
>
> Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be
> repaid.
fine
>
> Louvre, Paris: no cost
fine
>
> Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior).
this is the most debated, i think.
i'm still on the side of those who think that the inferior
version didn't need a cost at all.
>
> Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood.
>
guess it's fine
> Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding
>
why reprinting a card that is banned from tournament play?
> Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn
> option.
wow. sounds good now.
>
> Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain
> flight.
fine.
>
> Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no
> Ventrue.
fine and much better
>
> Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1)
> during your untap phase.
mm, pretty good right now.
>
> Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters
>
otherwise it was too much similar to secret horde ?
> Psychic Projection: is put in play.
>
just fine
> Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a
> strike.
and it is not targetted y the "new" illegal search and seizure :-)
>
> Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped
> vampire.
uncertain about this
>
> Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade.
>
fine
> Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1.
>
can't see too well the difference....
> Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game.
>
yup..along with the new hostile takeover,
it seems very hard to steal away other's vampires right now
> Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique.
contesting a tremere convocation ?...why ?
>
> Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost.
>
just fine
> Weather Control: only one each combat.
fine and balanced.
Imho, the majority of the "changes" (actually, some just re-writing cards
with
clarifications) are good. The only point i'm still missing is about presence
and
the inferior majesty/catatonic fear costs.
anyway, thanks for posting the update
ciao
Emiliano, v.ekn prince of Rome
XZealot
1)Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase.
This doesn't really affect this card so much as it reduces its ability as a
cycling mechanism.
2)Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior only
once each combat.
I never really saw mutiples of these being thrown down.
3)Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool.
This definantly lowers the cost of this wallpaper to the point that it might
be playable.
4)Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's
strength (and are therefore hand strikes)
Sweet! Now IG doesn't hose the Tremere (of course that assumes that the
Tremere are actually playing with these cards)
5)Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions
Yeah! Now a political counter that doesn't actually require a Malkavian.
6)Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood.
Yeah! S:CE at inferior is no longer free.
7)Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal agg
damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a standard
strike).
Yeah! Unwallpapers a card.
8)Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking.
Yeah! Makes allies more useful.
9)Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood.
Yeah! no more opponents packing 8 free DT's in their weenie Anarch Revolt
deck.
10)Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger
vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect).
I hate this card, but at least it is more useable and less corner-case.
11)Drain Essence: costs 1 blood.
Yeah, They finally balanced this card.
12)Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with
yourself).
No real effect here.
13)Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution.
Yeah! Mono-discipline weenie embrace decks get hosed.
14)Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar
Seems reasonable.
15)Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is limited
to 4 blood.
This is probably the biggest change in the set. I for one do not miss its
passing.
16)Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool.
Fine, Stealth for Malkavians
17)Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1
strength.
This is intuitive and good
18 )Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire
This makes sense.
19)Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7.
Good, no more Gideon Fontain hostile takeovers your Etrius or Democritus or
Wynn.
20)Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any amount
of agg damage.
That makes sense. "Oh no officers you can't take my improvised flamethrower,
I have rights."
21)Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option.
Good, arsons are still fairly common.
22)Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during the
master phase, not the minion phase.
Keeps diablerists from being burned to get rid of this card before a
bloodhunt passes.
23)Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be repaid.
This is an interesting twist which increases the power of Shambling Hordes
decks, but also reduces some confusion about who should pay the blood costs.
24)Louvre, Paris: no cost
I still don't think that this unwallpapers this card.
25)Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior).
Yeah! S:CE at inferior is no longer free.
26)Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood.
Even better, now that costs them up front
27)Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding
Good, no more self contradicting 50 clause questions.
28)Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn option.
Good, but still not great.
29)Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain flight.
Cool, although I kind of liked my maneuver.
30)Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no
Ventrue.
Good, but still not great.
31)Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1) during
your untap phase.
Awesome!
32)Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters
This may improve its usage. It certainly increased its profitabilty %, but
still not to the point of Short Term Investment.
33)Psychic Projection: is put in play.
Good.
34)Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a strike.
Unbans the cards. Good.
35)Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped vampire.
Gives it parity with Eternal Vigilence.
36)Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade.
I still think this card should be banned.
37)Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1.
This really only affect Celerity vampires.
38)Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game.
That is a relief.
39)Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique.
Good.
40)Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost.
Sweet.
41)Weather Control: only one each combat.
Good, this prevents the Ben Peal 60 weather control "we both go to torpor"
weenie Thaumaturgy decks.
LSJ
> 29)Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain flight.
>
> Cool, although I kind of liked my maneuver.
The maneuver is still there.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/images/CardCE3pa.jpg
Martin Bruset Solberg
> limited to 4 blood.
> Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped
> vampire.
Whattaf***! Now I have waited 1 and a half year (all my time as a
V:tES-player) to play one of those prince-decks, and then they the cards
which make such decks good. Damn!
Martin Bruset Solberg
Martin Bruset Solberg <tha...@online.no> wrote in message
news:Lef19.3778$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no...
> > Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is
> > limited to 4 blood.
>
> > Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped
> > vampire.
>
>
> Whattaf***! Now I have waited 1 and a half year (all my time as a
> which make such decks good. Damn!
>
XZealot
"Martin Bruset Solberg" <tha...@online.no> wrote in message
news:Lef19.3778$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no...
Yep, time to get on the combat bandwagon. All Aboard!!
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Cameron
Yeah, the meaning was relativly clear in context. If I might make a
suggestion:
Parity Shift - tasty and nasty vote card
Judgement: Camarilla Segregation - even better with rules changes
Archon - Donal, how much do you dislike lady anne?
Anathema - Donal's reward for the above
Kindred Restructure hmmm... you can be there, then you there, then me
here. I'm done and the anarch revolts kill all of you.
Third Tradition: Progeny, The - with Embrace nerfed this suddenly
becomes more than a proxy for embraces.
Blood Hunt - see Donal above.
not to mention that 2nd tradition isn't all that messed up, only one
blood to untap if you need to. As I usually use it with a superior
obediance, I'm not going to sweat the one blood change.
5ths change seems a little overblown, but I'll cope somehow.
Cameron Domer
Halcyan 2
>It doesn't consider special cases for the striker nor the strikee (nor the
>combat - e.g, Dawn Operation).
So it seems that Machine Blitz is the only remaining card that relies on "the
amount the chosen weapon would inflict if it were chosen as a strike" [LSJ
19970224]. (Since Concealed Weapon and Illegal Search and Seizure have been
changed).
On the one hand, it does seem a bit odd since Machine Blitz is now the odd man
out. Though if MB was changed to "normal strike" you'd only further wallpaper
an already wallpapered card.
Just my two cents.
Halcyan 2
Hollowboy
I can sympathise, but I think the word destroy is a bit much.
2nd Tradition is still a very yummy card.
I have a EuroBruhaj deck (no rush) with:
INTERCEPT: 13 cards, all second traditions
COMBAT: 10 Imoortal Grapple, 12 Torn Signpost, 1 Fists of Death, +
various celerity
other cards include: 4 deflections, 8 tastes for blood gain, 6 Parity
shifts
With the new set, I will have the option of swapping Don (the only
type 1 in the deck) for the new Justicar with permanent intercept.
Compare that with a Tzimisce deck (no rush) with:
INTERCEPT: 13 cards: 3 Eternal Vigilance, 5 Precognition, 5 Enhanced
Senses
COMBAT: 10 Carrion Crows, tons of flesh-sculpting nasties
other cards include 4 Telepathic Misdirection, a pile of combat, and 8
Inner Essence for blood conservation / gain.
Which deck would you rather be bleeding with Malkavians? I would
prefer to bleed the Sabbat. They have only 19 intercept and no bounce,
or 15 intercept and 4 bounce, compared to the Bruhaj's 26 intercept
and four bounce from the same number of cards. The Sabbat untap costs
1 *and* requires setup, whereas the princes get theirs straight away.
So the Bruhaj beat the Tzimisce at one of their clan specialties.
(I would appreciate an Auspex +2/3 card to make up for this, like the
opposite of Forgotten Labarynth)
Also - either deck will torpor your bleeders if they catch them. But
the camarilla guys are slightly better able to send them there empty
(and, if needed, have the votes to diablerise them).
In summary, I think 2nd tradition is still better than the Sabbat
equivalent.
5th tradition is now a good card, rather than a brilliant one.
It's still decent blood gain for decks that can't use Restoration,
voter cap etc. It's still more easily played than the Sabbat
equivalent, Bloodbath - I think that requires *you* to have two big
Sabbat, whereas 5th requires you to have 1 Prince, and the blood can
go to any vampire on the table.
Eg - stuck with your only other vampire in torpor, and an intercept
predator? You can offer your prey a deal - You fill one of their
vampires, and won't bleed next turn, and in return they rescue your
guy.
It's now about balanced with it's Sabbat equivalent. Maybe it is even
a little weak, particularly considering the Sabbat have access to
Festivo and Hungry Coyote. Even the independants have some good
options - Patshiv and Acquired Ventrue assets spring to mind - that
the Camarilla don't.
In summary, 5th tradition had been axed, BUT it's still not a bad
card.
The changes have certainly hosed some specific decks, that is, decks
that combine several of these depowered cards.
Still, but that is probably less bad than the good balancing effect.
Martin Bruset Solberg
Hollowboy <icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:614f2a39.02072...@posting.google.com...
Well, I guess your right. The cards were owerpowered (which was the reason I
wanted to use them). It probably is the best thing they tuned them down a
bit. Think I'm going to use them anyway.
Curevei
Was writing a post in response to one of the ones that addressed this in
greater depth, then got disconnected.
Anyway, the card will still likely have some small number of uses. The
flexibility of the card being shot to hell. While this change will fix some
abuses, it throws out all sorts of nonabusive uses.
Wouldn't be so bad if not for two things. First, this brings it out of line
with other create vampire actions. Third Tradition and Create Gargoyle were
already better if you could meet the requirements. The balancing factor was
that The Embrace didn't need special requirements. Now, it falls far below
Third, Gargoyle, and Creation Rites. With Third being easy to play and
Gargoylelings having around two and a half disciplines, I don't see the balance
between these cards.
Second, there were other possible fixes. Two pool instead of two blood would
have been one. Limiting where the skill card could come from* would have been
another. Restricting the action to vampires of a certain capacity would have
stopped some of the weenie/weenie decks. Even better, use the no skill card
change but allow a skill card if the acting vampire is cap 5 or higher.
* Any limitation would have weakened the card somewhat, some more than others.
Limiting to hand would force a combo. Limiting to hand and ash heap would
have stopped deck thinning. Etc.