Leadership Vacuum question
Joscha Duell
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Unique.
Only usable when a ready titled vampire controlled by another
Methuselah is burned or sent to torpor. Usable during your turn. Put
this card in play and put X counters on this card where X is the
number of votes that vampire has. That Methuselah burns X pool during
each of his or her untap phases. During his or her untap phase, if he
or she controls a ready vampire with a capacity above 7 or with a
title, burn this card.
Question:
I'm in my untap. A LV with two counters on it was played against me
last turn. I do have a ready titled/ 8+cap vampire ready. Can I burn
the LV BEFORE I have to lose two pool or do I lose two pool regardless
of timing in the untap?
Reyda
"Joscha Duell" <joscha...@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de
news:8b87b6c9.04090...@posting.google.com...
you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you
decide.
if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things
would be different :)
Kenneth
> >
> > Question:
> > I'm in my untap. A LV with two counters on it was played against me
> > last turn. I do have a ready titled/ 8+cap vampire ready. Can I burn
> > the LV BEFORE I have to lose two pool or do I lose two pool regardless
> > of timing in the untap?
I do wish that losing pool regardless of timing was how LV was intended
to be played, but I doubt it.
>
> you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you
> decide.
You're probably right, but LV would be so much better if you were wrong.
>
> if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things
> would be different :)
Things would certainly be very different and would actually give the
combat clans some very needed ousting potenetial. If you are correct in
assuming that LV can be removed before losing pool I can't see that the
card is worth including in any decks, except maybe with Tariq and his
trusty ring. I'm not saying that LV should be difficult to remove, but
it would have been way better if it weren't so easy to avoid that first
condition of losing pool. Where's the harm in sending Arika to torpor
and making sure that her Methusalah pays 4 pool for using such a bitch
;) Most likely she'll be out of torpor on that same turn and throughing
a PTO in your non-camarilla face just for trying to mess with her.
-Kenneth
Joscha Duell
> >
> > if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things
> > would be different :)
>
> Things would certainly be very different and would actually give the
> combat clans some very needed ousting potenetial. If you are correct in
> assuming that LV can be removed before losing pool I can't see that the
> card is worth including in any decks, except maybe with Tariq and his
> trusty ring. I'm not saying that LV should be difficult to remove, but
> it would have been way better if it weren't so easy to avoid that first
> condition of losing pool. Where's the harm in sending Arika to torpor
> and making sure that her Methusalah pays 4 pool for using such a bitch
> ;) Most likely she'll be out of torpor on that same turn and throughing
> a PTO in your non-camarilla face just for trying to mess with her.
:o)Well, you have to make sure that nobody is ready anymore of Arika's
buddies. It seems this card only benefits multirushdecks of whatever
kind which are capable of torporizing many minions at once, leaving
only small ones ready which don't count for LV. A little too special
for my taste, but I think I give it a try.
Darky
My guess would be that the effect is pending as soon as you enter your
untap phase, so you'd still have to resolve the effect even though you
burn the card in the same untap phase. (you do get to choose the
order, naturally)
I think that the link with weather control isnt that far away :)
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2na8cqFv31n2U1%40uni-berlin.de
(effect has to be resolved because it is pending, even if combat is
ended)
I'm not sure though, but it does seem reasonable to me.
-Bram Vink
Kenneth
> > you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you
> > decide.
> >
> > if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things
> > would be different :)
>
> My guess would be that the effect is pending as soon as you enter your
> untap phase, so you'd still have to resolve the effect even though you
> burn the card in the same untap phase. (you do get to choose the
> order, naturally)
>
> I think that the link with weather control isnt that far away :)
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2na8cqFv31n2U1%40uni-berlin.de
> (effect has to be resolved because it is pending, even if combat is
> ended)
> I'm not sure though, but it does seem reasonable to me.
Hmm, that Weather Control vs Alpha Glint example is a good argument for
a pending effect in LV.
I was thinking that LV is more like Antediluvian Awakening, where you
choose to burn pool or a vampire. There is still quite a difference
though, since AW will deal some sort of damage no matter what you
choose, while with LV there is the possibilty of avoiding pool lose with
no penalties, making it unnecessarily limited in use.
-Kenneth
LSJ
Leadership Vacuum only has an effect while in play. If burned, it
has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending".
Weather Control is never in play.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Kenneth
> has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending".
>
> Weather Control is never in play.
...but as Darky suggested, if it is in play when you enter an untap
phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn)
regardless of whether it's burned or not?
-Kenneth
LSJ
But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card
is not in play.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
Daneel
> "Kenneth" <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message
> news:413EEE90...@ifm.uib.no...
>> > Leadership Vacuum only has an effect while in play. If burned, it
>> > has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending".
>> >
>> > Weather Control is never in play.
>>
>> ...but as Darky suggested, if it is in play when you enter an untap
>> phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn)
>> regardless of whether it's burned or not?
>
> But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card
> is not in play.
But then LSJ also stated that Weather Control is never in play. Of course,
he probably meant that a card that is normally put into play is incapable
of producing a pending effect that lingers after the card is burned from
play.
If you rush your prey LV should do damage at least once. Otherwise, it is
more like a way to make people spend actions or pool - I personally loved
it when it came out, but since then I tried to use it. Not every card can
(or should) be a Govern...
Bye,
Daneel
LSJ
news:opsd0i9z...@news.chello.hu...
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:20 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > "Kenneth" <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message
> >> phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn)
> >> regardless of whether it's burned or not?
> >
> > But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card
> > is not in play.
>
> But then LSJ also stated that Weather Control is never in play. Of
course,
He did. And it is true that WC is not put into play.
Not sure what your point is here, though.
> he probably meant that a card that is normally put into play is incapable
> of producing a pending effect that lingers after the card is burned from
> play.
LSJ does not mean that. That would be incorrect. See Camarilla Vitae
Slave for example. A card in play can set up a lingering effect with
appropriate card text. Leadership Vacuum lacks such text.