Rules Team Rulings: 1/24/96

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Thomas R Wylie

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Jan 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/24/96
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GENERAL RULINGS

1) Effects that apply "before combat begins" can only be played as combat
is entered. Thus, Obedience would be used (and cancel a combat) before
Thoughts Betrayed could be played, Donal O'Connor could force the burning
of one blood, and so on.

2) An action that is directed will either say it is directed or have the
(D) symbol. If an action doesn't say either of these, then it's not
directed, regardless of what the action affects. The "definition" of
directed actions in the rulebook ("...actions that directly affect another
Methuselah, one of her minions, or a card a Methuselah controls") is
really just our design notes as to when we normally describe (or don't
describe) an action as directed. Very, very few of the actions that fall
into those three categories will actually be undirected, but when burning
a card has more impact on the prey/predator relationship than it would on
the controller of the card, the action will be undirected. An example of
this is the action to burn The Treatment.


REVERSALS

1) Superior Sacrificial Lamb cannot be played on your own vampires; it
does not override the definition of a (D) action.

ERRATA TO CARDS AND RULES

1) Castle Heidelburg cannot transfer anything to or from a vampire in
combat. (Side Note: Yes, it's supposed to be Heidelburg with a 'u'.)

2) Fata Morgana's restriction against playing modifiers to further
increase bleed only applies if you use its superior ability.

3) Taste of Vitae only gives blood equal to the amount of damage
successfully inflicted on the opposing vampire. It will not, for example,
give blood for blood spent playing combat cards or stolen blood.

4) Non-Camarilla vampires cannot play Masquerade Enforcement, nor can they
call the vote to burn it.

5) Employing Charnas the Imp is a directed action.

6) The Blood Hunt card cannot be played on Inner Circle members.

7) Soul Stealing left off the fact that it can be played as a combat card.
However, to make things more interesting, we are making this the superior
version of the ability, which would read "As above, and this card can also
be played as a combat card."

ACTIVE REGION
There has been some confusion, both in the rulebook and on the cards,
as to whether vampires in torpor are considered to be in the "active
region". This set of rulings clears up the definitions of the various regions.
Vampires from your crypt are placed in the inactive (uncontrolled)
region. The active (controlled) region contains all of the minions
(vampires and allies) and other cards you have available. The active
region is divided into two areas: "torpor", for vampires in torpor, and
the "ready region", for everything else.

Various corrections to the rulebook:
Section 4.1: There are three regions in front of each player: the
inactive region, the torpor region, and the ready region. The last two
regions are collectively called the active region. [diagram] All cards in
the active region are considered controlled. Vampires in the inactive
region are considered uncontrolled.
Section 5.3, Minion phase: Each untapped minion you control may take
a minion phase action.
Section 6.4, Hunting: An untapped ready vampire with no blood must
hunt as her next action
Section 7, Tallying the Vote: You receive extra votes for each ready
Primogen, Prince, and Justicar you control.
Section 15: If a previously contested card ceases to be contested, it
is returned to play face up and untapped (if appropriate).
Section 19, Rescuing a Vampire: If the rescuing action is successful,
the rescued vampire leaves torpor and is placed in the ready region.

Various corrections to the cards:

Chantry: Moves the Tremere from torpor to his or her controller's
ready region.
Minor Boon: Second sentence should just be: "Put this card on the
vampire."
Legendary Vampire: Only usable if the vampire was moved into your
active region during your last influence phase.
Possession: Moves a vampire from your ash heap to your ready region.
Banishment: delete "from the controlling Methuselah's active region"

CARD RULINGS

1) The action to use Vast Wealth is considered an equipping action. The
action equips the minion with a card in your library instead of one in
your hand. So Joaquina Amaya gets her +1 stealth during the action, and so on.

2) Once Fear of Mekhet is in play, it may only be moved to Inner Circle
members. This is deliberate.

3) Force of Will really represents two actions. If the first action
(untapping the vampire) is successful, then the vampire takes the bleed
action as described on Force of Will.

4) If a vampire in torpor possesses a contested Secure Haven, and the Haven
stops being contested while the vampire is in torpor, the Haven is not burned.

5) Troile's Revenge just breaks the rule against hunting while at full
capacity. It does not allow the vampire to hunt in spite of other
restrictions, such as possessing Talbot's Chainsaw.

6) Acquired Ventrue Assets can be used during anyone's master phase, not
just yours.

7) Soul Stealing cannot be used if a vampire is burned as a result of a
political action, such as Tradition Upheld.

8) If a vampire is sent to the uncontrolled region, all "remainder of
game" effects it applied to other cards end. However, all "remainder of
game" effects that applied to it will still be in effect if the vampire
returns to play. For example, if a Banished vampire had played Blood Bond
on another vampire, the effect would end. But if the vampire has been the
victim of the bond, or had been chosen for The Rack, the effect would
start applying again when the vampire came back into play.

Any minion or master cards on the vampire written with a "remainder of
game" effect still remain in effect, as such cards are retained by the vampire.


Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.


up and crumbling

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Jan 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/24/96
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In article <4e6902$t...@darkstar.ucsc.edu>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:

>CARD RULINGS

>7) Soul Stealing cannot be used if a vampire is burned as a result of a
>political action, such as Tradition Upheld.

How does Anathema work with this ruling? I mean, the vampire is kinda
being burned because of Anathema, but also because of the combat -- which
would take precedence? Could Soul Stealing be used in combat (at superior,
with the appropriate erratum) if an Anathemized vampire is being burned?

gomi
they fixed Taste of Vitae! yay!

--
"You go too far, sir! Who spoke of rebellion?"
"If one insults one's sovereign, one may be a fool who expects no response,
or a martyr who expects to be arrested, or a rebel who expects to resist.
I know Your Highness is not a fool; I doubt Your Highness is a martyr."

L. Scott Johnson

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Jan 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/25/96
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aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>3) Taste of Vitae only gives blood equal to the amount of damage
>successfully inflicted on the opposing vampire. It will not, for example,
>give blood for blood spent playing combat cards or stolen blood.

Only gives blood equal to the amount /of blood burned to heal/ damage
successfull inflicted, right? It won't give me three blood for hitting
an empty vampire with Undead Strength, right?
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Alan Eisinger

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Jan 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/25/96
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In article <4e6902$t...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,

Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>2) An action that is directed will either say it is directed or have the
>(D) symbol. If an action doesn't say either of these, then it's not
>directed, regardless of what the action affects. The "definition" of
>directed actions in the rulebook ("...actions that directly affect another
>Methuselah, one of her minions, or a card a Methuselah controls") is
>really just our design notes as to when we normally describe (or don't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ -- Is it a rulebook or a collection of
designers notes?

>ERRATA TO CARDS AND RULES
>
>1) Castle Heidelburg cannot transfer anything to or from a vampire in
>combat. (Side Note: Yes, it's supposed to be Heidelburg with a 'u'.)
o

>2) Fata Morgana's restriction against playing modifiers to further
>increase bleed only applies if you use its superior ability.
>
>3) Taste of Vitae only gives blood equal to the amount of damage
>successfully inflicted on the opposing vampire. It will not, for example,
>give blood for blood spent playing combat cards or stolen blood.
>
>5) Employing Charnas the Imp is a directed action.
]
WOW! Four good errata in one batch! I don't suppose you would consider
thinking about Concealed Weapon or Hidden Lurker while the RT is in such
a reasonable mood, would you?>

>
>2) Once Fear of Mekhet is in play, it may only be moved to Inner Circle
>members. This is deliberate.
Deliberate, or diabelerie? (This is both a clever joke and a serious
question.)>
>
gnfnrf

TONY RICARDI

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Jan 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/26/96
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-> >1) Castle Heidelburg cannot transfer anything to or from a vampire
-> in >combat. (Side Note: Yes, it's supposed to be Heidelburg with a
-> 'u'.)

Can you xfer equipment after block/no block has been declared, but
before the action resolves?

L. Scott Johnson

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:

>CARD RULINGS

>1) The action to use Vast Wealth is considered an equipping action. The
>action equips the minion with a card in your library instead of one in
>your hand. So Joaquina Amaya gets her +1 stealth during the action, and so on.

And the action Magic of the Smith? is this also equipping?

---

And (to re-iterate), the action Restoration is *not* hunting?

Chick Lewis

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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Tony, based on your question about Heidelburg Castle, by the power
vested in me by the Elder Gods, I hereby annoint you, from this day
forward, as a true RULES PARALEGAL with all the rights and benefits
pertaining thereunto.

Chick...@msn.com

Alan Eisinger

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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More on this idea, to which I think the answer would be yes, consider the
following scenario.
Vamp A has V:tES Laptop
Vamp B (same meth) also has V:tES Laptop
that mesuthelah has Heidelburg untapped.

Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.

Duzzit werk?

gnfnrf


TLMadden

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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Rulings question on Master out-of-turns in general and Sudden reversal!

When Can Master-out-of-turn cards be played?
Anytime that it is not YOUR master phase
Or Anytime when it is not your turn?

If only out of your turn I think it makes certain cards (Rotscheck and
Sudden Reversal) not as useful.

As for Sudden Reversal. What does it do EXACTLY? Kill any master card (in
play or being played) or just being played ones?

Thanks

Terry Madden

refp...@best.com

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Out of turn are like reaction cards in that it must be anothers
turn to plat them.
Sudden reversal is as the card is being played.
REF


TONY RICARDI

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Jan 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/28/96
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-> >Can you xfer equipment after block/no block has been declared, but
-> >before the action resolves?
->
-> More on this idea, to which I think the answer would be yes, consider
-> the following scenario.
-> Vamp A has V:tES Laptop
-> Vamp B (same meth) also has V:tES Laptop
-> that mesuthelah has Heidelburg untapped.
->
-> Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
-> Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
-> Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.

Ick... I would say you count the bleed mods after all cards/effects are
done, but I await the official ruling.

What I had in mind was something more mundane...

Me: Koko bleeds. (Koko has nothing on him)

Prey: Anvil blocks.

Me: OK, I tap Heidulberg Castle to give Koko the flamethrower...

Anvil: Auuuurgh!

CurtAdams

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Jan 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/30/96
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In article <4e6902$t...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R
Wylie) writes:

>
>6) The Blood Hunt card cannot be played on Inner Circle members.
>

Is this errata, or is there a general rule that IC members get all
privileges accorded to prince/justicars?


Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Thomas R Wylie

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Jan 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/30/96
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Alan Eisinger <eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>Can you xfer equipment after block/no block has been declared, but
>>before the action resolves?
>
>More on this idea, to which I think the answer would be yes, consider the
>following scenario.

>Vamp A has V:tES Laptop
>Vamp B (same meth) also has V:tES Laptop
>that mesuthelah has Heidelburg untapped.
>
>Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
>Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
>Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.

Yes, this works. The errata only prohibits the Castle from being
used during combat, not at other times.

Thomas R Wylie

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Jan 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/30/96
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L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>>1) The action to use Vast Wealth is considered an equipping action. The
>>action equips the minion with a card in your library instead of one in
>>your hand. So Joaquina Amaya gets her +1 stealth during the action, and so on
>And the action Magic of the Smith? is this also equipping?

Yes. I probably should have actually moved this question up to the general
rulings as "any action that says to go through your library,
or anywhere else, and equip the acting minion with a piece of
equipment found there is an 'equip action'."

>And (to re-iterate), the action Restoration is *not* hunting?

Correct.

L. Scott Johnson

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>Alan Eisinger <eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>>Can you xfer equipment after block/no block has been declared, but
>>>before the action resolves?
>>
>>More on this idea, to which I think the answer would be yes, consider the
>>following scenario.
>>Vamp A has V:tES Laptop
>>Vamp B (same meth) also has V:tES Laptop
>>that mesuthelah has Heidelburg untapped.
>>
>>Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
>>Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
>>Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.

>Yes, this works. The errata only prohibits the Castle from being
>used during combat, not at other times.

No, this does not work. Sure, you can swap - but the equipment
only gives the equipped minion a +1 bleed - it does not modify the
acting but the actor (as with Ozmo's +1 bleed).

If someone Mask1K's a bleed Ozmo starts do they still get the +1?
No. The total bleed comes from adding action modifiers in effect
together with the bleeding minion's bleed. Laptops modify the
bleeding minion's bleed (optionally, of course, since they are
equipment).
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Any sufficiently advanced bug is
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | indistinguishable from a feature.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- Kulawiec

L. Scott Johnson

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu (Alan Eisinger) writes:
>L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>>>Alan Eisinger <eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>>>Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
>>>>Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
>>>>Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.
>>>Yes, this works. The errata only prohibits the Castle from being
>>>used during combat, not at other times.
>>No, this does not work. Sure, you can swap - but the equipment
>>only gives the equipped minion a +1 bleed - it does not modify the
>>acting but the actor (as with Ozmo's +1 bleed).
>>
>>If someone Mask1K's a bleed Ozmo starts do they still get the +1?
>>No. The total bleed comes from adding action modifiers in effect
>>together with the bleeding minion's bleed. Laptops modify the
>>bleeding minion's bleed (optionally, of course, since they are
>>equipment).

>My point was not can H-burg be used in the middle of an action, but does
>the bleed from the first laptop carry over. I said V:tES laptop, because
>it reads:
>minion w/ this eq. gets +1 Bleed on each bleed action.
>as opposed to the Jyhad version:
>+1 Bleed.

>My thought was the "on each bleed action" meant it was reckoned once, and
>lasted the whole action. Thus the first laptop would contribute it's +1,
>which would linger, then the second would add another 1. I don't know.

I understand, but this is clearly the same as Ozmo's built-in bleed.
If Ozmo ceases to be the acting minion, his bonus bleed goes away with
him. If a laptop ceases to be owned by the acting minion, its bleed
bonus goes away with it.

Card text (as you say - I don't own the card) is:

The /minion/ with this equipment gets +1 bleed on each bleed action.

not

Any /bleed action/ taken by the minion with this equipment is at +1 bleed.

It modifies its owner's bleed, not the bleed action itself. Cease to
be the owner = cease to get the bonus to bleed.


>If you want to get really evil and twisted, how about this.
>Vamp A has laptop (vtes)
>Bleeds
>Vamp B blocks
>Vamp B steals Laptop
>Vamp A continues action w/ FoM

>does it still have the +1 bleed?

By Tom's answer, yes.

James Puzzo

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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CurtAdams (curt...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <4e6902$t...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R
: Wylie) writes:

: >
: >6) The Blood Hunt card cannot be played on Inner Circle members.
: >
: Is this errata, or is there a general rule that IC members get all
: privileges accorded to prince/justicars?

It _better_ just be errata to Blood Hunt, because we've already had the
clarification that IC members CAN'T call Prince/Justicar votes unless it
also states IC members can call it in the text.

-James

Alan Eisinger

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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In article <4emka8$o...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>,

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>>Alan Eisinger <eisi...@galaxy.ee.rochester.edu> wrote:
>>>>Can you xfer equipment after block/no block has been declared, but
>>>>before the action resolves?
>>>
>>>More on this idea, to which I think the answer would be yes, consider the
>>>following scenario.
>>>Vamp A has V:tES Laptop
>>>Vamp B (same meth) also has V:tES Laptop
>>>that mesuthelah has Heidelburg untapped.
>>>
>>>Vamp A Bleeds. Gets +1 Bleed for the current bleed action.
>>>Heidelburg swaps Laptops (neither has more than one at a time)
>>>Vamp A gets another +1 bleed for the action from the other laptop.
>
>>Yes, this works. The errata only prohibits the Castle from being
>>used during combat, not at other times.
>
>No, this does not work. Sure, you can swap - but the equipment
>only gives the equipped minion a +1 bleed - it does not modify the
>acting but the actor (as with Ozmo's +1 bleed).
>
>If someone Mask1K's a bleed Ozmo starts do they still get the +1?
>No. The total bleed comes from adding action modifiers in effect
>together with the bleeding minion's bleed. Laptops modify the
>bleeding minion's bleed (optionally, of course, since they are
>equipment).

My point was not can H-burg be used in the middle of an action, but does
the bleed from the first laptop carry over. I said V:tES laptop, because
it reads:
minion w/ this eq. gets +1 Bleed on each bleed action.
as opposed to the Jyhad version:
+1 Bleed.

My thought was the "on each bleed action" meant it was reckoned once, and
lasted the whole action. Thus the first laptop would contribute it's +1,
which would linger, then the second would add another 1. I don't know.

If you want to get really evil and twisted, how about this.


Vamp A has laptop (vtes)
Bleeds
Vamp B blocks
Vamp B steals Laptop
Vamp A continues action w/ FoM

does it still have the +1 bleed?

gnfnrf

Thomas R Wylie

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Feb 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/3/96
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CurtAdams <curt...@aol.com> wrote:
>>6) The Blood Hunt card cannot be played on Inner Circle members.
>Is this errata, or is there a general rule that IC members get all
>privileges accorded to prince/justicars?

It's errata specific to Blood Hunt.

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