Questions on Shadow strike LSJ
Mikael Hallin
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obtenebration
Strike: strength ranged damage, with an optional
maneuver. (S) As above, with an optional press.
Is this considered a hand strike?
Can you combine this card with cards such as wolf
claws or equipment like meat cleaver?
Seems to be a good pitch card, especially if you can
combine it like in the above stated question(in
addition to the obvious TS or fists of death), but
pitch cards are usually of limited usefulness.
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Derek Ray
Hallin) wrote:
>Shadow Strike [SW]
>Cardtype: Combat
>Cost: 1 blood
>Discipline: Obtenebration
>Strike: strength ranged damage, with an optional
>maneuver. (S) As above, with an optional press.
>
>Is this considered a hand strike?
No ranged strike will ever be a hand strike.
>Can you combine this card with cards such as wolf
>claws or equipment like meat cleaver?
Nope. In the first instance, Wolf Claws only modifies a hand strike.
In the second instance, Meat Cleaver only provides a bonus when
striking with the Cleaver itself; a Shadow Strike is its own strike.
>Seems to be a good pitch card, especially if you can
>combine it like in the above stated question(in
>addition to the obvious TS or fists of death), but
>pitch cards are usually of limited usefulness.
Well. *cough* I wouldn't necessarily say THAT... imagine the
following scenario:
Start of combat, you pull out a Torn Signpost.
Your victim says "Oh, my. Potence", and plays a Fake Out to go to
long range, cackling with glee.
You play Shadow Strike, decline to use the maneuver, and hit him at
long range with your Torn Signpost, knocking his pointy little head
across the room.
If he doesn't maneuver, (relying on Dodge, for example), you just play
Immortal Grapple; same result.
And all this combo really needs is POT/obt, which 9 vampires have.
(only 3 of them are 8-cap or below, but one of those IS Sela.) It's
not implausible to grab the ones with pot/obt and start slapping POT
skill cards around, or to grab the ones with POT and start dropping
OBT skill cards to let them hit out at long range, too. Sure beats
hell out of trying to outmaneuver the Assamites and celerity-gun
decks.
Pitch is starting to make a real strong showing these days; there's a
lot of long-range combat floating around out there, and a lot of
maneuvers showing up instead of Dodge or S:CE, in response to the
potence-grabby-decks. I find that a good pitch or other long-range
deck will often catch many people by surprise and/or with their pants
down; or, in some cases, at least provide you with mutual assured
destruction against ANOTHER long-range deck, so you have somewhere to
start bargaining from. =)
...The problem is keeping people from Dramatic Upheavaling you all
over the place once you get in position for a VP. =)
-- Derek
Goon-of-the-Month club member
"In a MAN's game, you tap things that block." -- F. Scott, 2001
LSJ
> thermon...@rocketmail.com (Mikael Hallin) wrote:
> >Shadow Strike [SW]
> >maneuver. (S) As above, with an optional press.
> >Is this considered a hand strike?
>
> No ranged strike will ever be a hand strike.
Correct.
> >Can you combine this card with cards such as wolf
> >claws or equipment like meat cleaver?
>
> Nope. In the first instance, Wolf Claws only modifies a hand strike.
> In the second instance, Meat Cleaver only provides a bonus when
> striking with the Cleaver itself; a Shadow Strike is its own strike.
Correct.
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Mikael Hallin
>
>Well. *cough* I wouldn't necessarily say THAT...
>imagine the
>following scenario:
>
>Start of combat, you pull out a Torn Signpost.
>
>Your victim says "Oh, my. Potence", and plays a Fake
>Out to go to
>long range, cackling with glee.
Don't see that happening around here much
>You play Shadow Strike, decline to use the maneuver,
>and hit him at
>long range with your Torn Signpost, knocking his
>pointy little head
>across the room.
I'd face S:CE
>If he doesn't maneuver, (relying on Dodge, for
>example), you just play
>Immortal Grapple; same result.
and he'll either die or prevent with FOR(depending on
what player it is)
>too. Sure beats
>hell out of trying to outmaneuver the Assamites and
>celerity-gun
>decks.
I've played assamites, they did reasonably well, but
mostly tended to kill off other combat decks, with the
exception of when gangrel plays drawing out the beast
*mutter*
>Pitch is starting to make a real strong showing these
>days; there's a
>lot of long-range combat floating around out there,
>and a lot of
>maneuvers showing up instead of Dodge or S:CE, in
>response to the
>potence-grabby-decks. I find that a good pitch or
>other long-range
>deck will often catch many people by surprise and/or
>with their pants
>down; or, in some cases, at least provide you with
>mutual assured
>destruction against ANOTHER long-range deck, so you
>have somewhere to
>start bargaining from. =)
Usually the only pitch around here is the odd lasombra
deck throwing a gate to go to long range or the one
assamite deck that I rarely see.
>...The problem is keeping people from Dramatic
>Upheavaling you all
>over the place once you get in position for a VP. =)
Doesn't happen much around here either.
All in all, I guess it depends upon your playgroup.
The playgroup I usually play have 2 for/pot/cel decks,
a few gangrel decks, a couple of ventrue, a couple of
lasombra, a couple of tzimisce, a couple of toreador,
an assamite, a giovani and some mixed odd others.
The only real rush decks around here are very
formidable, the two jimmy dunn/richter/gwendolyn decks
with pot/for/cel... people seldom play dedicated
bleed, except for me, I often play a gangrel dom deck.
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Mikael Hallin
1) it causes strength ranged damage, and strength is
the new word for the old "hand damage"
2) I know what it comes from in V:TM... striking
through a shadow and hitting someone elsewhere with
your hand/sword/baseball bat.
This makes asking "is this a hand strike" a pretty
logical question doesn't it?
Bah.
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Derek Ray
Hallin) wrote:
>The reason I asked these questions is that:
>1) it causes strength ranged damage, and strength is
>the new word for the old "hand damage"
actually, strength is the new word for the AMOUNT of hand damage you
will do. Hand damage is still the word for type of damage being done.
So a vampire with 2 strength will inflict 2 points of hand damage if
he strikes with his hands, barring other modifiers. If he whacks you
with a Meat Cleaver, he will inflict 3 points of melee weapon damage.
If he uses a Thrown Sewer Lid, he will still inflict only 3 points of
ranged non-hand damage.
>2) I know what it comes from in V:TM... striking
>through a shadow and hitting someone elsewhere with
>your hand/sword/baseball bat.
...two of which are not hand strikes anyway, they're melee weapon
strikes.
>This makes asking "is this a hand strike" a pretty
>logical question doesn't it?
Nobody said that it wasn't a logical question.
But because of Immortal Grapple and Wolf Claws (and the like), it is
necessary to be able to distinguish between purely "hand strikes", and
non-hand strikes which are based on a vampire's strength. It is also
clearer once you get used to it, believe it or not. =)