Deck: Ashur´s post-Heirs Gargoyle toolbox
Ashur
way over any expectations, but I suppose that has more to do with the
violent enviroment around here. Any ideas how to make it better? (I
still want it a bit unpredictable, and no Tupdogs this time.)
Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 8 average: 5.41667
------------------------------------------------------------
2x Rocia 8 FOR POT VIS obf Gargoyle:4
2x Cedric 6 FOR obf pot vis Gargoyle:4
2x Rusticus 4 VIS for Gargoyle:5
1x Muhsin Samir 6 DOM THA aus pot Tremere:4
1x Andrew Stuart 5 AUS DOM THA Tremere:4
1x Claus Wegener 5 DOM aus for tha Tremere:5
1x Zane 5 THA aus dom primogen Tremere:5
1x Frank Weisshadel 4 dom pot tha Tremere:4
1x Tarrence Moore 4 aus dom tha Tremere:5
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Master [12]
3x Effective Management
1x Fame
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
2x Rack, The
2x Vessel
1x Villein
1x Wasserschloss Anif, Austria
Action [8]
2x Defender of the Haven
6x Dive Bomb
Retainer [3]
3x Razor Bat
Action Modifier [9]
1x As the Crow
8x Conditioning
Combat [34]
1x Bond with the Mountain
1x Crawling Chamber
1x Flow Within the Mountain
5x Immortal Grapple
2x Lead Fist
2x Pounce
3x Raking Talons
4x Rockheart
4x Slam
4x Soak
4x Stonestrength
3x Torn Signpost
Action / Reaction [1]
1x Ensconced
Reaction [23]
5x Deflection
4x On the Qui Vive
4x Patrol
1x Salt of Thoth
1x Scry the Hearthstone
4x Voices of the Castle
4x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Fri Mar 12 21:17:59 2010]
Peter D Bakija
As you are unlikely to get out a lot of guys as opposed to just
wanting to fish for the appropriate vampires, these could be replaced
by Wider View to good effect.
> 1x Fame
> 1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
> 1x Powerbase: Montreal
> 2x Rack, The
> 2x Vessel
> 1x Villein
> 1x Wasserschloss Anif, Austria
This seems unnecessary--you'll often not have uncontrolled Tremere and
it can be burned down by default. It would be better replaced by an
Arcane Library (which isn't even that good of an idea) or just a
second Villein (which is probably better overall).
> Action Modifier [9]
> 1x As the Crow
> 8x Conditioning
As the Crow is really good. Finding room for a few more is likely to
pay off.
> Combat [34]
> 1x Bond with the Mountain
> 1x Crawling Chamber
> 1x Flow Within the Mountain
> 5x Immortal Grapple
> 2x Lead Fist
> 2x Pounce
> 3x Raking Talons
> 4x Rockheart
> 4x Slam
> 4x Soak
> 4x Stonestrength
> 3x Torn Signpost
With only 2 (of the same) minions with POT in the crypt, the Potence
cards other than Immortal Grapple seem dubious, especially the Slams.
Replacing them with more Crawling Chambers (for maneuevers/presses as
needed, or to save the Tremere with a run to long) and/or Lead Fists
is probably the way to go.
> Reaction [23]
> 5x Deflection
> 4x On the Qui Vive
> 4x Patrol
> 1x Salt of Thoth
> 1x Scry the Hearthstone
> 4x Voices of the Castle
> 4x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Reasonable. I'd consider getting a 6th Deflection in (replace the Salt
of Thoth probably, as you don't have many locations, especially if you
take out Anif Austria, which isn't really worth the Salt of Toth
defense).
Sutekh.23
> Tried to make nice toolboxy gargoyle deck post HttB. Has worked out
> way over any expectations, but I suppose that has more to do with the
> violent enviroment around here. Any ideas how to make it better? (I
> still want it a bit unpredictable, and no Tupdogs this time.)
>
I'll have a go at this as I've been playing Gargoyles alot lately.
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 8 average: 5.41667
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 2x Rocia 8 FOR POT VIS obf Gargoyle:4
> 2x Cedric 6 FOR obf pot vis Gargoyle:4
> 2x Rusticus 4 VIS for Gargoyle:5
> 1x Muhsin Samir 6 DOM THA aus pot Tremere:4
> 1x Andrew Stuart 5 AUS DOM THA Tremere:4
> 1x Claus Wegener 5 DOM aus for tha Tremere:5
> 1x Zane 5 THA aus dom primogen Tremere:5
> 1x Frank Weisshadel 4 dom pot tha Tremere:4
> 1x Tarrence Moore 4 aus dom tha Tremere:5
>
My deck runs with similar gargoyles, but after playing it for a few
weeks I ended up adding 1 more cedric and one less Rocia. As for the
Tremere I ended up with 3 gerald's (9 cap, AUS/DOM/THA/FOR, vote
special, +1 stealth) as my main guy plus Claus, Muhisin and Frank. On
average I manage to get out the 2 small gargoyles, Gerald and one
other tremere. The usual setup tends to be Gerald, then Cedric, then
whoever. Gerald is really good in this deck as he allows you to govern
down at 2 stealth and is your biggest minion. Even when I don't get
Gerald in my opening crypt, it's tended to get out all the smaller
tremere plus rusticus on the cheap allowing me to defend myself and
then fish for other guys if needed or viable.
> Library [90 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Master [12]
> 3x Effective Management
> 1x Fame
> 1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
> 1x Powerbase: Montreal
> 2x Rack, The
> 2x Vessel
> 1x Villein
> 1x Wasserschloss Anif, Austria
>
My master setup is a little different, I run alot more dolls/ vessels
than you do, and I replace the 'schloss wih an arcane library. ( I
know Peter said it is fairly meh, but it has kept me in the game long
enough to pull off an oust or two) The rack I don't currently use (nor
montreal) but if I added more intercept, I'd probably run them as
well.
> Action [8]
> 2x Defender of the Haven
> 6x Dive Bomb
>
I have exactly 0 rushes in my deck as I tend to get into combat by
either blocking or just sending the tremere to bleed and invoking the
slave rule. Sometimes I have wished for a rush, but lack of them has
never really hurt me that much.
> Retainer [3]
> 3x Razor Bat
>
> Action Modifier [9]
> 1x As the Crow
> 8x Conditioning
>
I think I run 7 GTU's and about 4 conditionings which generally gives
me more flexability than just conditionings. Also, I agree with Peter
insofar as if you are going to use As the crow, you might as well have
more than one. Pesonally however, if I wanted to multi-act with this
crypt, I'd run with Freak as you have more guys with for/FOR than you
have guys with flight.
> Combat [34]
> 1x Bond with the Mountain
> 1x Crawling Chamber
> 1x Flow Within the Mountain
> 5x Immortal Grapple
> 2x Lead Fist
> 2x Pounce
> 3x Raking Talons
> 4x Rockheart
> 4x Slam
> 4x Soak
> 4x Stonestrength
> 3x Torn Signpost
>
Yeah, umm Peter makes the best point on this, not enough POT to really
get the most out of this package. I constanly bemoan the fact that FOR
seems to be the most common superior for the gargoyles, yet it has
fairly good crossover with Vis. I'd reccomend a pakage focussed on
vis, flight + Grapples, i.e: pounce + grapple for the damage and
rockheart/ stonestrength for the prevent. For additional prevent, I'd
consider replacing your soaks with Armor of vitality due to it's
ability to prevent agg or unflinching persistance for extra manuvers
at FOR.
> Action / Reaction [1]
> 1x Ensconced
>
> Reaction [23]
> 5x Deflection
> 4x On the Qui Vive
> 4x Patrol
> 1x Salt of Thoth
> 1x Scry the Hearthstone
> 4x Voices of the Castle
> 4x Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
I'd swap out 2 patrol's and 2 voices for 4 more scry's, they have
similar effects at vis but scry gives you the manuver you may need to
either run away or to get into clobbering range.
> Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Fri Mar 12 21:17:59 2010]
Hope that helps
Sutekh_23
Peter D Bakija
> My master setup is a little different, I run alot more dolls/ vessels
> than you do, and I replace the 'schloss wih an arcane library. ( I
> know Peter said it is fairly meh, but it has kept me in the game long
> enough to pull off an oust or two)
Heh--Arcane Library is, generally speaking, a great card. But in a
deck that is half Tremere and half Gargoyles, it isn't that likely to
pay off in the long run, where, like, a second Villein is a lot more
likely to be good in this deck. That being said, I use an Arcane
Library in my Grotesque deck that is 5 Tremere and 7 Grotesques, and
it pays off all the time, so, ya know, whatever works :-)
-Peter
Sutekh.23
The thing is though, people tend to ignore the "bloat for 1" aspect of
such locations, but tend to notice the "tap/villein for 2 to X" If I
can, I tend to use it in this form of "under the raidar" survival
mechanism. Additionally, if you are someone who tends to overcommit on
minion costs (as I am wont to do), It forces you to slow down a bit
and really think about what you are doing, which, imho, probably helps
you to become a better player. As far as the grotesque's go, well it
is a cool location :)
Sutekh_23
Klaital
Well you know nothing prevents you from using BOTH arcane library and
wasserschloss, I usually do in all my tremere decks as that gives you
fairly nice bloat 2 per turn.
Dasein
does this Grotesque deck work? any chance of a decklist?
I am currently playing a gargoyle deck with a few Grotesques in it
(though I wouldn't call it a "Grotesque deck") and it is doing fairly
well (picked up some vps) but no game win yet.
Peter D Bakija
> does this Grotesque deck work? any chance of a decklist?
> I am currently playing a gargoyle deck with a few Grotesques in it
> (though I wouldn't call it a "Grotesque deck") and it is doing fairly
> well (picked up some vps) but no game win yet.
Yeah, it's ok. I played it the other night, and it totally sucked due
to me not drawing a location for, like, the first 6 turns of the game,
but even then, after I found some, the deck did ok and almost whacked
its prey (failing, primarily, due to a completely random contestation
of Zane with my predator...), and it won the previous game it played
(granted, all games it was played in were involving wacky experimental/
new tech decks; I wouldn't expect this deck to do that hot at, say, a
Qualifier or something):
2x Claus Wegener (5) DOM, tha
1x Zane (5) THA, dom
2x Tarrence Moore (4) dom, tha
7x Grotesque (3) pot, vis, flight
4x Storage Annex
2x Powerbase Chicago
1x Therbold Realty
1x Chantry
1x Centralized Background Check
1x Arcane Library
1x Powerbase Washington DC
1x Metro Underground
1x Academic Hunting Ground
2x Vessel
1x Insurance Scam
6x Dive Bomb
6x As The Crow
6x Deflection
4x Govern
4x Conditioning
4x Wake
2x On the Qui Vive
2x Salt of Thoth
10x Pounce
8x Raking Talons
8x Immortal Grapple
6x Crawling Chamber
6x Rockheart
2x Roll
Again, it isn, like, gonna tear up the tournament scene or anything,
but when it doesn't totally crap out (don't ever see a Tremere; don't
ever see a location), it is pretty good--the 3 cap Grotesques are
actually pretty effective as block deterrents and you can get a bunch
of them out if things go well. I'm not totally sold on the locations,
and might want more of them (or something like Magic of the Smith/
Loquipment to bolster the numbers), but having a few Salt of Toths in
there really dissuades folks from messing with your Powerbases.
-Peter