[LSJ] 1001 mask of thousand faces questions

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Oortje4ever

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Nov 8, 2003, 2:27:09 PM11/8/03
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Situation A

Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T.
Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again?

Situation B

As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target.
Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed?

Situation C

Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp
B plays a lost in crowd.
Is that possible? and why?

Situation D

Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah.
How many pool does he lose?

Situation E

Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah
> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same
methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt
by same methuselah with succes.
How many pool does this methuselah lose?

Situation F

I go and grab a beer during my predators turn.
Am I allowed to get food aswell?

greetz and weedz
oortje

Pepijn

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Nov 8, 2003, 2:39:44 PM11/8/03
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On 8 Nov 2003 11:27:09 -0800, oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever)
wrote:

>Situation A
>
>Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T.
>Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again?

Would say no.

>
>Situation B
>
>As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target.
>Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed?

Nope, card text of Change of Target

>Situation C
>
>Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp
>B plays a lost in crowd.
>Is that possible? and why?

Nope, no more then 1 of the same modifier per action.

>
>Situation D
>
>Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
>B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah.
>How many pool does he lose?

2

>
>Situation E
>
>Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
>B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah
>> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same
>methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt
>by same methuselah with succes.
>How many pool does this methuselah lose?

3. the 4th is not counted since it's the same vamp allready paid for.


>
>Situation F
>
>I go and grab a beer during my predators turn.
>Am I allowed to get food aswell?
>

Beer is a meal so no. Read Guisness label text :p

>
>
>greetz and weedz
>oortje

Colin McGuigan

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Nov 8, 2003, 3:43:31 PM11/8/03
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Oortje4ever wrote:

Google is your friend!

> Situation A
>
> Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T.
> Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again?

Yes.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+nra&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3BD5481E.8F8FEDDF%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2

> Situation B
>
> As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target.
> Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed?

No.

(Card text on change of target)

> Situation C
>
> Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp
> B plays a lost in crowd.
> Is that possible? and why?

Yes. A and B are two distinct minions. Note though that if A plays LiC
at superior, B must have superior OBF to mask the action.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dauthor:LSJ%2Bmask%2Bof%2B1000%2Bfaces%2Blost%2Bin%2Bcrowds%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%2540white-wolf.com%26rnum%3D2
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+lost+in+crowds&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3B658D1E.F6B9FD30%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2

> Situation D
>
> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah.
> How many pool does he lose?

B can't mask once A's Aching Beauty has been applied. Even though B has
an Aching Beauty, it's not the _same_ Aching Beauty.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3ECA4342.5020305%40white-wolf.com

> Situation E
>
> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah
>
>>Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same
>
> methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt
> by same methuselah with succes.
> How many pool does this methuselah lose?

Irrelevant.

> Situation F
>
> I go and grab a beer during my predators turn.
> Am I allowed to get food aswell?

Only if you get some for me.

--Colin McGuigan

Emile Bosman

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Nov 8, 2003, 6:49:07 PM11/8/03
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Pepijn <ka...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<7ghqqv4chlmef53po...@4ax.com>...

> On 8 Nov 2003 11:27:09 -0800, oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever)
> wrote:
>
> >Situation A
> >
> >Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T.
> >Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again?
>
> Would say no.

I'm not sure since the bleed action of vamp A never ocured per Mask
card text? so I'd say yes (then again I'm probably mistaking).

> >
> >Situation B
> >
> >As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target.
> >Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed?
>
> Nope, card text of Change of Target

Agree.

> >Situation C
> >
> >Vamp A Bleeds > Vamp A plays lost in crowds > Vamp B plays Mask > Vamp
> >B plays a lost in crowd.
> >Is that possible? and why?
>
> Nope, no more then 1 of the same modifier per action.
>

That's only stated on all the Dominate action modifiers (see Jyhad
card text on Conditioning Threats and Bonding) not on Obf Ser etc.
action mods.

> >Situation D
> >
> >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
> >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah.
> >How many pool does he lose?
>
> 2

Card text on AB.

Aching Beauty [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U]
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Toreador
Cost: 2 pool
Master.
Put this card on a Toreador. If this Toreador is blocked, the
controller of the blocking minion burns 1 pool (before combat occurs).

CoT says only usuable when you're blocked.

> >
> >Situation E
> >
> >Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
> >B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah
> >> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same
> >methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt
> >by same methuselah with succes.
> >How many pool does this methuselah lose?
>
> 3. the 4th is not counted since it's the same vamp allready paid for.

I'd still say 4 since there's no restriction on how many pool a player
can lose because of AB but Pepijn could be right, he'd better know
since he's the AB man (remembers the Belgium EC :P).

> >Situation F
> >
> >I go and grab a beer during my predators turn.
> >Am I allowed to get food aswell?
> >

Only if you Freak Drive or have a Ruthor's Hand since you only can
perform one action per turn (tapping Rules).



> Beer is a meal so no. Read Guisness label text :p
>
>
> >
> >greetz and weedz
> >oortje

Emile
"Beer equals two pieces of brown bread"
"We are an ape with a symbiotic relation to a mushroom"

Pepijn

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Nov 8, 2003, 9:43:25 PM11/8/03
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On 8 Nov 2003 15:49:07 -0800, ebo...@hotmail.com (Emile Bosman) wrote:


>I'd still say 4 since there's no restriction on how many pool a player
>can lose because of AB but Pepijn could be right, he'd better know
>since he's the AB man (remembers the Belgium EC :P).


Yeah, and you remember I normally stack my Aching beauties as well :)
Got your pool down considrable allthough you had a permanent 5 pool
gain a turn ;) What was it again? 8 pool a aturn untill you toporized
any minion I had? :p

Not bad for torries I would say

LSJ

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Nov 9, 2003, 7:46:39 AM11/9/03
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Colin McGuigan wrote:
> Oortje4ever wrote:
>
> Google is your friend!

Correct.

>> Situation A
>> Vamp A bleeds > block attempted > Vamp B plays Mask of T.
>> Can Vamp A attempt to bleed again?
>
> Yes.
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:LSJ+mask+of+1000+faces+nra&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3BD5481E.8F8FEDDF%40white-wolf.com&rnum=2

Correct.

>> Situation B
>> As above, but Vamp B gets blocked. Vamp B plays change of target.
>> Can Vamp B attempt to Bleed?
>
> No.
> (Card text on change of target)

Correct. Also restricted by the rules on bleeding, but card text suffices.

Correct. The restriction on playing action modifiers is per minion.

>> Situation D
>> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
>> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah.
>> How many pool does he lose?
>
> B can't mask once A's Aching Beauty has been applied. Even though B has
> an Aching Beauty, it's not the _same_ Aching Beauty.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&selm=3ECA4342.5020305%40white-wolf.com

Correct.

>> Situation E
>> Vamp A has a Aching Beaty and perfoms an action > block attempt > Vamp
>> B with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same methuselah
>>> Vamp C with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > block attempt by same
>> methuselah > Vamp A with Aching Beaty plays Mask oTF > Block attempt
>> by same methuselah with succes.
>> How many pool does this methuselah lose?
>
> Irrelevant.

Correct.

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Mats Ellingsen

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Nov 9, 2003, 2:55:15 PM11/9/03
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So this means that is vamp A bleeds with a laptop, vamp B with laptop
can't take over the action with mask, or am I wrong?

Colin McGuigan

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Nov 9, 2003, 3:46:45 PM11/9/03
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Mats Ellingsen wrote:
> So this means that is vamp A bleeds with a laptop, vamp B with laptop
> can't take over the action with mask, or am I wrong?

Wrong.

Vamp B could not take over the action if the laptop has been used -- of
course, the laptop is only "used" if the bleed is successful, at which
point, you can't mask the action anyway, because it's over.

Vamp B would not get the +1 bleed from Vamp A's laptop, though.

(Eg: Normal can mask for Arika, even though Arika has +2 bleed. Normal
does not get the +2 bleed, though.)

Bringing this back to Aching Beauty: If Vamp A has an Aching Beauty,
Vamp B can still mask the action (assuming all the normal conditions are
met), up until either...

1) The action succeeds, or
2) A Methuselah pays a pool for the Aching Beauty.

Up until then, it doesn't matter that A has an Aching Beauty, because it
hasn't caused an effect yet. So, it's perfectly fine for A to bleed,
for vampire C to declare a blocking attempt, and for B to mask the
action before C's controller pays a pool. Once C's controller has paid
the pool, though, B cannot mask for A.

Ditto for Archon, Camarilla Exemplary, Donal's card text, etc.

(Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do something,
but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador made
non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for
blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by someone
else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.)

--Colin McGuigan

Hollowboy

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Nov 9, 2003, 11:37:01 PM11/9/03
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> (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do something,
> but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador made
> non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for
> blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by someone
> else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.)
>
> --Colin McGuigan

Just to check that I understand this last point properly:

Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost
Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup.
cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth?

How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was
originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth?

The Lasombra

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Nov 9, 2003, 11:43:01 PM11/9/03
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On 9 Nov 2003 20:37:01 -0800,
icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) wrote:

>Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost
>Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup.
>cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth?

No.
Jost's stealth does not carry over to other minions.


>How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was
>originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth?

No, it gains one stealth when Jost takes over the action.


Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com

Timlagor

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Nov 10, 2003, 6:23:27 AM11/10/03
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The Lasombra expounded:

> On 9 Nov 2003 20:37:01 -0800,
> icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) wrote:
>
> >Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost
> >Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup.
> >cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth?
>
> No.
> Jost's stealth does not carry over to other minions.

however..

you could use Jost, have someone try to block, gain a stealth,
block fails, Then mask after you are through?
(thus succeeding in the action at 1 stealth even though there was a
1-intercept minion trying to block?)

Colin McGuigan

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Nov 10, 2003, 7:19:01 AM11/10/03
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Timlagor wrote:
> you could use Jost, have someone try to block, gain a stealth,
> block fails, Then mask after you are through?
> (thus succeeding in the action at 1 stealth even though there was a
> 1-intercept minion trying to block?)

Yes, if you do it after the blocking stage is over.

--Colin McGuigan

Colin McGuigan

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Nov 10, 2003, 7:20:49 AM11/10/03
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Hollowboy wrote:
> Just to check that I understand this last point properly:
>
> Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost
> Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup.
> cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth?

Like Lasombra says, no, Jost's inherent stealth doesn't carry over. The
masking vamp would be acting at +2 stealth.

> How about if Jost was given obf, and he masked an action that was
> originally at 0 stealth? Does it remain at 0 stealth?

No, it becomes +1.

--Colin McGuigan

Timlagor

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Nov 10, 2003, 8:39:52 AM11/10/03
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Colin McGuigan expounded:

> Hollowboy wrote:
> > Just to check that I understand this last point properly:
> >
> > Player A had Jost (+1 stealth on each action) + OBF minion.. Jost
> > Computer Hacks. Player B attemps 2nd trad block. OBF minion plays sup.
> > cloak, then sup Mask. Is OBF minion now acting at 3 stealth?
>
> Like Lasombra says, no, Jost's inherent stealth doesn't carry over. The
> masking vamp would be acting at +2 stealth.

Coudl someone explain wher ethe extra stealth is doming from please?
(1 Jost + 1 Mask + ??)

LSJ

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Nov 10, 2003, 8:51:14 AM11/10/03
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Cloak the Gathering.

Oortje4ever

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Nov 10, 2003, 2:20:42 PM11/10/03
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LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3FAE372F...@white-wolf.com>...

> Colin McGuigan wrote:
> > Oortje4ever wrote:
> >
> > Google is your friend!
>
> Correct.
>


Ehhm I didn't wrote that!


Colin!!!!!

> Colin McGuigan wrote:
> yes, what?


oh whatever...

thanks for the enlightment.


Oortje

Hollowboy

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Nov 10, 2003, 8:59:44 PM11/10/03
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Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<J_WcnVJyxvC...@speakeasy.net>...

Fair enough. That means I missed something when you wrote:

+++begin+++


(Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do
something,
but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador
made
non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for
blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by
someone
else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.)

+++end+++

...that last sentence intrigues me. By "inherent bonuses", I thought
you meant Jost and pals.

What *did* you mean? The +3 on sup. Magic of the Smith, the +2 on
guard duty, that sort of thing?

Thanx,
Craig

Colin McGuigan

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Nov 10, 2003, 9:46:47 PM11/10/03
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Hollowboy wrote:
> +++begin+++
> (Note that Mask isn't affected by cards in play that don't do
> something,
> but only prevent someone else from doing something. Eg, a Toreador
> made
> non-blockable by a Toreador Grand Ball can call a vote, ask for
> blockers, get their declines, and then have the action masked by
> someone
> else. Ditto with inherent bonuses to stealth.)
> +++end+++
>
> ....that last sentence intrigues me. By "inherent bonuses", I thought

> you meant Jost and pals.

I did. Perhaps poor phrasing. When I said "isn't affected by", read
"isn't made illegal by".

> What *did* you mean? The +3 on sup. Magic of the Smith, the +2 on
> guard duty, that sort of thing?

I meant that Jost (inherent +1 stealth) can still have his actions
masked by someone else, even if they lack an inherent +1 stealth, even
if the +1 stealth has already been made relevant (by a block attempt or
the like).

(As opposed to the Aching Beauty, where you cannot mask an AB minion,
even if you have AB yourself, if the pool has already been paid)

(And, just to repeat: if someone masks an action of Jost's, they don't
_get_ his +1 stealth...but they can still do it.)

--Colin McGuigan

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