Unstoppable Combat Combo
PeterM
Sort of a Jyhad trivia;
Q: What combat combo burns an opposing vampire without the victim
being able to do anything about it, no matter what (unpreventable,
undodgeable, no S:CE, etc.)
I think it's more challanging considering vamps without skill cards
added but it may not be possible.
My thought was
Angelica (or Luis Moncada)
Shadow Step (2 blood), set range to Close.
Thoughts Betrayed (2 blood)
Entombment (2 blood),
Decapitate (2 blood) or Garrotte
Bham, the vamp is burned and _I think_ only Bronwen, Melek, Crusher or
a Ravnos with Treasured Semedji (or any other natural not card playing
strike dodge or S:CE)
Mattrim.
This combination is stoppable. After range has been determined (as close),
the opposing vampire may play Immortal Grapple. Immortal Grapple prohibits
the use of Entombment ("Only hand strikes may be used this round.").
Best,
M.
James Coupe
<pete...@icqmail.com> writes
>My thought was
>Angelica (or Luis Moncada)
>Shadow Step (2 blood), set range to Close.
>Thoughts Betrayed (2 blood)
>Entombment (2 blood),
>Decapitate (2 blood) or Garrotte
>
>Bham, the vamp is burned and _I think_ only Bronwen, Melek, Crusher or
>a Ravnos with Treasured Semedji (or any other natural not card playing
>strike dodge or S:CE)
Hah! Best be packing two of those Entombments, or Watenda will have you
for breakfast.
Also, the Tzimisce will play Reform Body.
Since you're the acting minion (else someone else with a set range
effect will you), I can most likely hit you with Direct Intervention on
any "key" card. (Unless you've got a Madness Network *and* CIed to
Malkavian *and* we're down to 2 players, else I could always beg one -
Remember, we're playing corner cases here.)
I could also tap Purchase Pact, if I was playing Sabbat (since you are
too). I could also tap Mariel, in general.
If you're going the Garrotte route, (hmm... the WW web pages say
Garrote, but my spell-checker is annoyed by that, but that's what it
says on the card... typo or American spelling?) then I can Fractured
Armament you.
**LSJ** Could I Drawing Out the Beast him? Is Garrote burned whilst the
combat is still going (during the whole "going to torpor" or after
combat?) Also, do they actually hit torpor, for the purposes of Fame,
or are they burned whilst going to torpor?
Garrote will also not function if you've just taken agg damage, which a
Gangrel deck can do (via Claws which aren't strikes), or an Ivory Bow
(Disguised Weapon, anyone?) or something similar.
If I play Undead Persistence/Trap decks, I can not go to torpor and try
and take you down similarly, by making you not ready.
I can play a Weather Control deck, at which point you may well be in
torpor first, without something like Ex Nihilo (since you're not dealing
damage anyway) or Undead Persistence. Though both of those will bugger
a Garotte, again, because when combat ends, you won't be ready anymore.
A Ravnos/Chimerstry guy can make it all irrelevant with Illusions of the
Kindred.
Serpentis can cancel your strike with The Jones.
(And most likely others too.)
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
"Surely somewhere out there there's a woman who's EBD690ECD7A1F
been sodomized by her father and is capable of B457CA213D7E6
composing a few coherent sentences on the subject." 68C3695D623D5D
LSJ
> If you're going the Garrotte route, (hmm... the WW web pages say
> Garrote, but my spell-checker is annoyed by that, but that's what it
> says on the card... typo or American spelling?) then I can Fractured
> Armament you.
American spelling (http://www.m-w.com lists "garrotte" as a variant, though).
> **LSJ** Could I Drawing Out the Beast him? Is Garrote burned whilst the
> combat is still going (during the whole "going to torpor" or after
> combat?) Also, do they actually hit torpor, for the purposes of Fame,
> or are they burned whilst going to torpor?
DotB will prevent the Garrote from being used as a strike, which is a
prerequisite for using it to burn the opposing vampire. But, to answer
the question, the Garrote is burned in combat - the same time that
Reform Body, Decapitate, Undead Persistence or Amaranth would be played.
(Note: since someone will now ask - if any of the aforementioned effects
conflicts with any of the others, the first one played takes precedence,
as always).
Like Decapitate and Amaranth, burning the Garrote would burn the opposing
vampire before he hits torpor.
> Garrote will also not function if you've just taken agg damage, which a
> Gangrel deck can do (via Claws which aren't strikes), or an Ivory Bow
> (Disguised Weapon, anyone?) or something similar.
>
> If I play Undead Persistence/Trap decks, I can not go to torpor and try
> and take you down similarly, by making you not ready.
>
> I can play a Weather Control deck, at which point you may well be in
> torpor first, without something like Ex Nihilo (since you're not dealing
> damage anyway) or Undead Persistence. Though both of those will bugger
> a Garotte, again, because when combat ends, you won't be ready anymore.
You can use Garrote while under the protection of Undead Persistence, just
as you can use Amaranth under that condition.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Damnans
> Q: What combat combo burns an opposing vampire without the victim
> being able to do anything about it, no matter what (unpreventable,
> undodgeable, no S:CE, etc.)
>
> My thought was
> Angelica (or Luis Moncada)
> Shadow Step (2 blood), set range to Close.
> Thoughts Betrayed (2 blood)
> Entombment (2 blood),
> Decapitate (2 blood) or Garrotte
There is another importan factor to take into account. If your vampire
receives aggravated damage and enters torpor it will be impossible for him
or her to play Decapitate.
The following cards thwart the combo you mentioned above:
Wolf Claws
Claws of the Dead
Bone Spur
Chiropteran Marauder
Body Arsenal
None of them are strike cards and, therefore, they can be played although
a Thoughts Betrayed is in effect.
Greetings,
Damnans
JonCooper
> "PeterM" wrote...
>
> > Maybe this has been covered before but...mea culpa
> > Sort of a Jyhad trivia;
> > Q: What combat combo burns an opposing vampire without the victim
> > being able to do anything about it, no matter what (unpreventable,
> > undodgeable, no S:CE, etc.)
> >
> >
Muaziz gets blocked using dawn operation.
She then plays skin of night ,weather control ,amaranth.
Isnt unstoppable (eg/opposing vampire can play skin of night )
But is no fun :-(
Jozxyqk
> Maybe this has been covered before but...mea culpa
> Sort of a Jyhad trivia;
> Q: What combat combo burns an opposing vampire without the victim
> being able to do anything about it, no matter what (unpreventable,
> undodgeable, no S:CE, etc.)
The best one I've seen is one of our dear Boston Prince Ben Peal's
creations:
Dawn Operations
Skin of Night
Weather Control
Amaranth
...which burns the blocking vampire before range is determined.
Richard Labrecque, aka Khaleph Alendis
Or using Direct Intervention on one of the card. In that situation, I
would do that on the Thoughts Betrayed.
Bye,
Richard Labrecque, aka Khaleph Alendis
VEKN Canada : http://www.oricom.ca/melkor/khaleph/index_ang.htm
Matt Latham
blocking...
It never swept a table (lots of moving parts) but I generally took 2-3 VP
per table.
Matt
Grant Garvin
"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:KXz77.21868$N21.7...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
I've seen Ben use that thing. Ick. =)
Viva El Burno!
*grin*
-Grant Garvin
The Prince of Seekonk
kuquami
opposing vampire : Garrote+Blood Agony. Deal aggravated damage with
your Garrote, then burn the Garrote to burn the opposing minion as
he's going into torpor.
You can use for example Vampiric Speed for the first round of combat
and play the Garrote with a Disguised Weapon at +1 surprise.
Note that Blood Agony can be played after the opposing minion reveals
his strike, so if he or she plays a S:CE, neither your Blood Agony nor
your Garrote are wasted. The combo is screwed by Fortitude and IG,
though. But Assamite have other ways to deal with those guys, right ?
PeterM
> > Angelica (or Luis Moncada)
> > Shadow Step (2 blood), set range to Close.
> > Thoughts Betrayed (2 blood)
> > Entombment (2 blood),
> > Decapitate (2 blood) or Garrotte
> >
> > Bham, the vamp is burned and _I think_ only Bronwen, Melek, Crusher or
> > a Ravnos with Treasured Semedji (or any other natural not card playing
> > strike dodge or S:CE)
>
> This combination is stoppable. After range has been determined (as close),
> the opposing vampire may play Immortal Grapple. Immortal Grapple prohibits
> the use of Entombment ("Only hand strikes may be used this round.").
>
Damn. That is completely correct. There's no way to prevent IG from
being played beyond DI, which if taken into account pretty much makes
this idea pointless.
So, IG would prevent any melee strikes or things like Coma, Entombment
etc.
So,....otherwise keeping combat at long would prevent IG from being
played.
I was thought about Ur-Shulgi, Thoughts Betrayed, Silence of Death,
Taste of Death, Garrotte...
The big problem is it doesn't prevent the opposing minion from
maneuvering. That's why i thing shadow step, cailean, or Gang tactics
have to be used. Possibly a terror frenzy or drawing out the beast
could rememdy that but...
Steve Bucy
Grant Garvin wrote in message ...
Ugh. I have the exact same stinking deck. Never got a VP in 5 games. Why? My
prey would not block my darn actions. I kept getting deflected or they would
just take the bleed. Sure I got to fry my preys first vamp in a couple
games, but that was about it. big whoop de do...
Steve Bucy
-
"The only human commander to survive combat
with the Minbari fleet is behind me. You are in front of me.
If you value your lives be somewhere else!" - Delenn
Check out http://vtesinla.org/ for all V:TES information in Los Angeles
area.
Flux
PeterM <pete...@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:5802b3d0.01072...@posting.google.com...
> I was thought about Ur-Shulgi, Thoughts Betrayed, Silence of Death,
> Taste of Death, Garrotte...
> The big problem is it doesn't prevent the opposing minion from
> maneuvering. That's why i thing shadow step, cailean, or Gang tactics
> have to be used. Possibly a terror frenzy or drawing out the beast
> could rememdy that but...
What about:
Thoughts Betrayed
Terror Frenzy (inf)
maneuver
Blur+Quickness
Blood Sweat x 4
Amaranth
Ur-Shulgi with an Animalism card and Tajdid could do it.
You could also replace the additional strikes by a Dawn Operations for
unpreventable agg. damage, but you'd need FOR too then.
Flux
James Coupe
>What about:
>
>Thoughts Betrayed
>Terror Frenzy (inf)
>maneuver
>Blur+Quickness
>Blood Sweat x 4
>Amaranth
>
>Ur-Shulgi with an Animalism card and Tajdid could do it.
Tap Mariel.
Ex-Nihilo/Weather Control take down. (And I don't take the damage,
since I ignore it, and WC is environmental, hence not reduced to
zero.)
A range setting card. (Cailean, Shadow Step.)
Assuming you're the acting minion: Legacy of Power
Assuming you're the acting minion, not under a Madness Network: Claws,
followed by Rotschreck
Drawing out the Beast (you can't maneuever)
Direct Intervention any given card (so you need more)
Illusions of the Kindred (rendering it all pointless)
Theoretically, stacking up *huge* numbers of discipline cards and a
Giant's Blood (or whatever), so your damage isn't enough.
Combine built in dodges with that, so you don't do enough damage.
The Jones, to stop you. (So you need more.)
Phobia and blocking.
Derange your vampire and Purchase Pact.
And, again, plenty more.
Noal McDonald
>>> The best one I've seen is one of our dear Boston Prince Ben Peal's
>>> creations:
>>> Dawn Operations
>>> Skin of Night
>>> Weather Control
>
*nods* It seems a lot of play groups independently happened upon this
combo around the same time, give or take about six months.
> Never got a VP in 5 games. Why? My prey would not block my darn actions.
Which means the actions have to quite brutal.
> I kept getting deflected
But wait! There's more! For only a limited time you can get the
anti-deflect-o-matic! It slices! It dices! It gives you Perfect Clarity!
*grin*
Suddenly, Dom/For/Tha got a whole lot meaner. I'm looking forward into
breathing new life into that old, yet brutal, combo.
Regards,
Noal McDonald
VEKN Prince of Metro Detroit
salem christ
[snip other combo stuff]
>
> I was thought about Ur-Shulgi, Thoughts Betrayed, Silence of Death,
> Taste of Death, Garrotte...
> The big problem is it doesn't prevent the opposing minion from
> maneuvering. That's why i thing shadow step, cailean, or Gang tactics
> have to be used. Possibly a terror frenzy or drawing out the beast
> could rememdy that but...
ummmm...am i the only one who realises you can only use garotte to
burn someone if you send them to torpor _when you used the garotte as
a strike_?
am i? i think this is the second time i have seen someone allude to
using it when you send the person to torpor some other way....
salem.
salem christ
> In message <3b5f...@212.18.160.197>, Flux <fl...@netc.pt> writes
> >What about:
> >
> >Thoughts Betrayed
> >Terror Frenzy (inf)
> >maneuver
> >Blur+Quickness
> >Blood Sweat x 4
> >Amaranth
> >
> >Ur-Shulgi with an Animalism card and Tajdid could do it.
>
> Tap Mariel.
> Ex-Nihilo/Weather Control take down. (And I don't take the damage,
> since I ignore it, and WC is environmental, hence not reduced to
> zero.)
> A range setting card. (Cailean, Shadow Step.)
> Assuming you're the acting minion: Legacy of Power
> Assuming you're the acting minion, not under a Madness Network: Claws,
> followed by Rotschreck
i'm pretty sure the whole "claws at long range" idiocy inspired a nice
little ruling/errata/whatever you call it, that made rotschrek not
playable in that case (eg: "strike must be effective at current range"
or words to that effect).
> Phobia and blocking.
damnit, that one gets me every time....
salem.....
Roger Carhult
Purchase Pact works as well if you're Sabbat.
James Coupe
christ <salem_...@my-deja.com> writes
>ummmm...am i the only one who realises you can only use garotte to
>burn someone if you send them to torpor _when you used the garotte as
>a strike_?
I know, but I keep forgetting.
James Coupe
>> followed by Rotschreck
>[snip other foiling moves]
>
>i'm pretty sure the whole "claws at long range" idiocy inspired a nice
>little ruling/errata/whatever you call it, that made rotschrek not
>playable in that case (eg: "strike must be effective at current range"
>or words to that effect).
Sorry, yes.
Assuming you're the acting minion, not under a Madness Network: Mythic
Form, followed by Rotschreck
>> Phobia and blocking.
>
>damnit, that one gets me every time....
Happens at least twice a game, every game, surely?