Wave of lethargy and optional press/maneuver
Dugrim
cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round. A
vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
If a vampire play a card that give an optional maneuver or press? He
must pay an additonal blood?
EG:
Invoking the Beast at ABO
[abo] Only usable before range is determined. This vampire has +1
strength for the remainder of combat. A vampire can play only one
Invoking the Beast each combat.
[ABO] As above, with an optional press this round.
Vampire playing this card must pay 1 or not?
Thanks
Merlin
Not when playing the card, no. If the vampire attempts to use the press
to continue or end combat later, then he will have to pay the "extra"
blood cost (of 1).
Merlin
LSJ
> [qui] Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
> cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round. A
> vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
>
> If a vampire play a card that give an optional maneuver or press? He
> must pay an additonal blood?
Yes.
> EG:
> Invoking the Beast at ABO
> [abo] Only usable before range is determined. This vampire has +1
> strength for the remainder of combat. A vampire can play only one
> Invoking the Beast each combat.
> [ABO] As above, with an optional press this round.
>
> Vampire playing this card must pay 1 or not?
Yes.
But note that if vampire A plays Invoking the Beast first and then the
opponent plays Wave of Lethargy, vampire A doesn't have to pay an
additional blood for the Invoking the Beast.
Merlin
So "played" in the text of Wave of Lethargy means all cards played that
provide maneuvers/presses(/strikes at QUI)? The manuever gained from a
Spirit's Touch played by the opposing vampire prior to the Wave of
Lethargy does _not_ cost an additional blood because it isn't "played"
during the combat? Similar for guns with optional meneuvers, as they
are permanent? What about a Disguised/Concealed Weapon with a .44
Magnum? The Magnum grants an "optional maneuver", does the Magnum cost
an additional blood, or is it not counted as "played" because it is not
played as normal?
In the above example, playing Invoking the Beast at inferior would
sidestep the additional blood cost?
If all the above is true, Wave is even worse than i thought it was.
Thanks,
Merlin
LSJ
> So "played" in the text of Wave of Lethargy means all cards played that
> provide maneuvers/presses
Yes.
>(/strikes at QUI)?
Note that ther superior is worded differently.
It affects the cost of strike cards, not cards that provide strikes
(like Improvised Tactics at [pot]).
>The manuever gained from a
> Spirit's Touch played by the opposing vampire prior to the Wave of
> Lethargy does _not_ cost an additional blood because it isn't "played"
> during the combat? Similar for guns with optional meneuvers, as they
> are permanent?
Correct.
> What about a Disguised/Concealed Weapon with a .44
> Magnum? The Magnum grants an "optional maneuver", does the Magnum cost
> an additional blood, or is it not counted as "played" because it is not
> played as normal?
The latter.
> In the above example, playing Invoking the Beast at inferior would
> sidestep the additional blood cost?
Yes.
Azel
it's good and bad news. it means cycling out an Aid from Bats now
requires an additional blood. but it means a gun or Spirit Touch doesn't.
now, i got a question. what happens when i play Flash at superior?
maneuver w/ an optional press? i understand the difference between
'play' and 'use' when it comes to terms of cards, but it doesn't seem
completely clear to me here. it seems like play was used as a synonym
here. anyway, if we're going to be strict, the text has "maneuvers *and*
presses" so would that mean Flash, or Aid from Bats, at superior costs 2
blood? it would seem so. even if it's just 1 card, it's a card that
provides 2 things, and these 2 things are increased in cost, which is
what the Wave of Lethargy card looks for -- the 'x' *and* 'y' things,
not card. is this right?
[qui] Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round. A
vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
also, how is Trap calculated? do you pay up front (which naturally
wouldn't make sense to me)? but if it is paid for as per use, doesn't
that make an argument that the WoL text is more of "to use" than a
strict interpretation of "to play" (as in assuming "to play [a card]")?
otherwise calculation can get rather messy anticipating costs when they
can be handled in an "as use" basis.
LSJ
> now, i got a question. what happens when i play Flash at superior?
> maneuver w/ an optional press? i understand the difference between
> 'play' and 'use' when it comes to terms of cards, but it doesn't seem
> completely clear to me here. it seems like play was used as a synonym
> here. anyway, if we're going to be strict, the text has "maneuvers *and*
> presses" so would that mean Flash, or Aid from Bats, at superior costs 2
> blood? it would seem so. even if it's just 1 card, it's a card that
> provides 2 things, and these 2 things are increased in cost, which is
> what the Wave of Lethargy card looks for -- the 'x' *and* 'y' things,
> not card. is this right?
No. You only play the card once, and it is only one card. Its cost is
increased by one blood.
Google: "Wave Lethargy Flash author:LSJ"
> [qui] Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
> cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round. A
> vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
>
> also, how is Trap calculated? do you pay up front (which naturally
> wouldn't make sense to me)?
Trap is unaffected, since the press it provides doesn't come from the
minion playing it.
Azel
Azel
Wait, what about Conquer the Beast? doesn't that come from the vampire,
being a discipline card and all? how does that resolve?
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
> > Trap is unaffected, since the press it provides doesn't come from the
> > minion playing it.
>
> being a discipline card and all? how does that resolve?
Being a Discipline card has no effect one way or the other. Card text
is used.
Conquer the Beast: "You get one press each round". So a vampire
suffering the effects of Wave of Lethargy would have to pay an
additional blood to play Conquer the Beast.