Deviki Prasanta Question

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adam....@ngc.com

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Apr 19, 2005, 1:48:13 PM4/19/05
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The wording of this guy got me thinkin'...

Deviki Prasanta
Unique ghoul with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. If Deviki is ready
during your master phase, you may tap Deviki to search your library or
ash heap for a master: Discipline card and place that card on a ready
Assamite you control.


Question: This doesn't necessarily say that you have to TAP him during
his master phase, only that you can use his ability if he is ready
during the master phase.

Example explaining...
Master phase: Deviki Prasanta is ready (fulling condition of card)
Minion phase: Deviki attempts to equip something. Gets blocked. Plays
Change of Target (untaps). Now can he do his ability to get a master
card?

John Flournoy

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Apr 19, 2005, 2:13:04 PM4/19/05
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Sorry, posted an incomplete reply there.

Deviki's phrasing is 'if he IS ready during your master phase', not 'if
he WAS ready during your master phase'. It's not worded in such a way
that his ability would be based off a previously-checked condition
allowing you to use him later in your turn.

If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready
you can tap Deviki to..' etc.

-John Flournoy

adam....@ngc.com

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Apr 19, 2005, 2:22:04 PM4/19/05
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What I'm saying that "'if he IS ready during your master phase"...
meaning that you COULD tap him during the master phase or any other
phase.

David Zopf

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Apr 19, 2005, 2:38:29 PM4/19/05
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<adam....@ngc.com> wrote in message
news:1113932893.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Nope. Deviki uses the "During X, do Y" template... from the ERC
Terminology section:

"During phase X, do Y" limits Y to once per phase X. [LSJ 19970625]

Regards,
DaveZ
Atom Weaver


John Flournoy

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Apr 19, 2005, 3:01:48 PM4/19/05
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No. His 'tap to get a Master: Discipline card' effect is done during
your master phase - not 'at any point during your turn so long as he
was ready during your master phase'.

-John Flournoy

John Flournoy

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Apr 19, 2005, 3:06:15 PM4/19/05
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During a later phase, Deviki's text would need to read 'if he WAS ready
during your master phase'. Nothing in his card text indicates that his
ability checks backwards to see about his prior condition (nor does it
indicate that once checked, he gets that ability for any length of time
other than as you check it - there's no 'for the rest of the turn'
etc.)

If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready

Deviki may tap..'

-John Flournoy

LSJ

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Apr 19, 2005, 5:24:49 PM4/19/05
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It doesn't.

--
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Anarch

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Apr 19, 2005, 7:26:01 PM4/19/05
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You can tap Deviki during your master phase. This is not an action that
could be blocked by any opposing vampire. It means if you use this
ability, Deviki should be tapped during your minion phase.

Chris Berger

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Apr 19, 2005, 9:21:38 PM4/19/05
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I have no further input on this topic except that it drives me crazy
that everyone is calling Deviki a 'he', when she is obviously a woman.
Deviki Prasanta *is* female, right? Right???

LSJ

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Apr 19, 2005, 9:25:43 PM4/19/05
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Chris Berger wrote:
> Deviki Prasanta *is* female, right? Right???

Yes.

[excuse mode]
It could be that people are honoring the tradition of
referring to minions in the masculine (as opposed to Methuselahs
in the feminine).
[/excuse mode]

Yeah, right.

Daneel

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Apr 25, 2005, 9:12:23 AM4/25/05
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On 19 Apr 2005 12:06:15 -0700, John Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready
> Deviki may tap..'

Could she even be "not ready" at all?

--
Bye,

Daneel

James Coupe

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Apr 25, 2005, 5:00:42 PM4/25/05
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In message <opspshf2...@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu>
writes:

There's an interesting possibility of stealing an ally, using a Madness
Network to do it out of turn.

For instance, Far Mastery doesn't specify that it should change the
region that it's in[0]. And then it's arguable how the rules work. #

"At the end of the turn, any allies that were placed in your
uncontrolled region (to indicate that they cannot act) are moved
to your ready region."

No reference is made to the (obviously unusual!) instance of someone
else taking control of it[1]. Similarly, a search for Set's Call
doesn't turn up any specifics as to where the ally is placed, or if they
move.


[0] Once upon a time, allies could hit the torpor region if particularly
wrong effects interacted with them.

[1] Allies in the uncontrolled region are controlled (they are there to
mark that they can't act), but not ready, per the rulebook. There was a
particularly sick interaction of cards that prompted this, back in 1998:

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d
99793521331cbb5?hl=en>

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/

LSJ

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Apr 25, 2005, 5:25:59 PM4/25/05
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Sure. It wouldn't happen very often, but it could happen.

Daneel

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Apr 26, 2005, 6:14:52 PM4/26/05
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:25:59 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:

> Daneel wrote:
>> On 19 Apr 2005 12:06:15 -0700, John Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready
>>> Deviki may tap..'
>>
>> Could she even be "not ready" at all?
>
> Sure. It wouldn't happen very often, but it could happen.

Does it require Mata Hari to set it up? ;)

--
Bye,

Daneel

LSJ

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Apr 26, 2005, 7:52:32 PM4/26/05
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Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
The easy way is ... easier.

Daneel

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Apr 27, 2005, 6:15:06 PM4/27/05
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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:52:32 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:

> Daneel wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:25:59 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Daneel wrote:
>>>> On 19 Apr 2005 12:06:15 -0700, John Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready
>>>>> Deviki may tap..'
>>>>
>>>> Could she even be "not ready" at all?
>>>
>>> Sure. It wouldn't happen very often, but it could happen.
>>
>> Does it require Mata Hari to set it up? ;)
>
> Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
> The easy way is ... easier.

Last Stand?

--
Bye,

Daneel

Brendan Hunt

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Apr 27, 2005, 8:09:48 PM4/27/05
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LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<4vAbe.17264$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

> Daneel wrote:
> > On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:25:59 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Daneel wrote:
> >>> On 19 Apr 2005 12:06:15 -0700, John Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> If it helps, read it as 'during your master phase, if Deviki is ready
> >>>> Deviki may tap..'
> >>>
> >>> Could she even be "not ready" at all?
> >>
> >> Sure. It wouldn't happen very often, but it could happen.
> >
> > Does it require Mata Hari to set it up? ;)
>
> Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
> The easy way is ... easier.


How about just contesting? She is unique isn't she?

there can't be that many Assamites out there can there?

or we could go back into self contesting again.... ;>

LSJ

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Apr 27, 2005, 8:14:53 PM4/27/05
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Daneel wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:52:32 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
>> Daneel wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:25:59 GMT, LSJ
>>>> Daneel wrote:
>>>>> Could she even be "not ready" at all?
>>>>
>>>> Sure. It wouldn't happen very often, but it could happen.
>>>
>>> Does it require Mata Hari to set it up? ;)
>>
>> Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
>> The easy way is ... easier.
>
> Last Stand?

Ends the turn, at which point Deviki would move to ready.

LSJ

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Apr 27, 2005, 8:26:09 PM4/27/05
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Brendan Hunt wrote:
> LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<4vAbe.17264$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>>Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
>>The easy way is ... easier.
>
> How about just contesting? She is unique isn't she?

Right. Someone else controls Deviki. You recruit another
copy. The other Methuselah yields. In your untap, you
have Deviki, but still planted in your uncontrolled region.

(This should probably be changed, since it is highly
unintuitive -- perhaps in the next rulebook).

Daneel

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Apr 28, 2005, 4:28:01 AM4/28/05
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:26:09 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:

> Brendan Hunt wrote:
>> LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
>> news:<4vAbe.17264$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>>> Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
>>> The easy way is ... easier.
>>
>> How about just contesting? She is unique isn't she?
>
> Right. Someone else controls Deviki. You recruit another
> copy. The other Methuselah yields. In your untap, you
> have Deviki, but still planted in your uncontrolled region.
>
> (This should probably be changed, since it is highly
> unintuitive -- perhaps in the next rulebook).

Wow. I'm not sure I could've figured that out any soon. It's
too simple. ;) Anyway, I've always found her text to be odd
with respect to requiring her to be ready (as in, even contesting
included, I kind of find these to be more cornercase issues).
Unless, of course, there is a devious designer intent that
already sees some prospects for allies using the torpor region
for something other than being "sick when summoned"... ;)

--
Bye,

Daneel

James Coupe

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Apr 28, 2005, 4:20:11 AM4/28/05
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In message <B4Wbe.602$7F4...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ

<vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes:
>Brendan Hunt wrote:
>> LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<4vAbe.17264$44....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>>>Nah. That would be the hard corner-case way.
>>>The easy way is ... easier.
>> How about just contesting? She is unique isn't she?
>
>Right. Someone else controls Deviki. You recruit another
>copy. The other Methuselah yields. In your untap, you
>have Deviki, but still planted in your uncontrolled region.
>
>(This should probably be changed, since it is highly
>unintuitive -- perhaps in the next rulebook).

Can I clarify what the situation is when someone steals a vampire during
your turn, when it was recruited?

e.g. If I'm playing Mirembe Kabbada/Serpentis Gangrel and block/Set's
Call your werewolf:

- will it go into my uncontrolled region?
- will it move at the end of your turn into my controlled region? (The
rulebook is unclear on the point.)

Essentially, during my turn, will I be able to play Abomination? Or
will I have to wait until the end of my turn?

LSJ

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Apr 28, 2005, 6:16:10 AM4/28/05
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James Coupe wrote:
> In message <B4Wbe.602$7F4...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ
>>Right. Someone else controls Deviki. You recruit another
>>copy. The other Methuselah yields. In your untap, you
>>have Deviki, but still planted in your uncontrolled region.
>>
>>(This should probably be changed, since it is highly
>>unintuitive -- perhaps in the next rulebook).
>
> Can I clarify what the situation is when someone steals a vampire during
> your turn, when it was recruited?
>
> e.g. If I'm playing Mirembe Kabbada/Serpentis Gangrel and block/Set's
> Call your werewolf:

Or for that matter, when a Malkavian plays Far Mastery on your recently
recruited ally.

> - will it go into my uncontrolled region?

Yes.

> - will it move at the end of your turn into my controlled region? (The
> rulebook is unclear on the point.)

Quite so.

Any allies in any uncontrolled region move to their controller's
controlled region.

> Essentially, during my turn, will I be able to play Abomination? Or
> will I have to wait until the end of my turn?

You may play Abomination.

James Coupe

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Apr 28, 2005, 2:09:10 PM4/28/05
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In message <opspxn9i...@news.chello.hu>, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu>
writes:

> Unless, of course, there is a devious designer intent that
> already sees some prospects for allies using the torpor region
> for something other than being "sick when summoned"... ;)

Allies don't go into the torpor region when recruited - they go into the
uncontrolled region.

However, allies in the torpor region isn't possible:

"However, if the effect would send the ally to torpor, then he
is burned instead."

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