(LSJ) Twilight Rebellion questions !

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François

не прочитано,
29 мая 2008 г., 05:13:3929.05.2008
Hello,


First of all, I didn't see the actual cards, so I hope I got the texts
from the spoilers posted on this group right.

Constant Revolution
+1 stealth action. Requires an anarch. Unique.
Put this card in play with 1 counter. During your untap phase, put a
counter on this card. During each other Methuselah's untap phase, he
or she must burn X pool and/or cards at random from his or her hand,
where X is the number of counters on this card. Any vampire may burn
this card as a D-action that costs 1 pool.

Are the cards discarded simultaneously ? Or does a Methuselah discard
one card, draw back, discard another card, etc. (assuming there are
several counters on the Revolution) ?

If the cards are discarded simultaneously, and there are a number of
counters greater than the number of cards in that Methuselah's hand,
that methuselah cannot avoid to pay pool for the counters in excess,
can he ?


Final Loosening
Reaction
aus/dem/for
Requires an anarch.
aus: Play when an action vampire would gain 1 or more blood. The
action vampire and this reacting anarch each gain 1 blood instead.
dem: Gain 4 votes.
for: Only usable when an ally is acting. The action fails and the ally
takes 1 damage. Tap this reacting anarch.

How does the auspex effect interact with superior Voter Captivation ?
For example, a referendum passes with a 4 votes difference. Acting
vampire plays superior Voter Cap. Does he announce how much of the
blood he intends to move to his pool ? Assuming he would gain 2 blood
et move 2 other blood to his pool, and an anarch plays Final Loosening
at auspex : does he gain 2 pool and 1 blood or does he gain 1 blood or
1 pool (is Final Loosening applied before the blood would be moved to
the pool ?) ?

Thank you, and thank you for this great set for what I have read about
it on this newsgroup !

François

Maegnar

не прочитано,
29 мая 2008 г., 05:44:3029.05.2008

Also this

Open War
+1 stealth action. Requires a baron.
Put this card in play. Anarch vampires can enter combat with any
minion as a D-action. They can burn a location as a D-action that
costs 2 pool. Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to move 1
counter from his or her pool to this card. When this card has 4 pool,
burn it an gain 4 pool. Only one Open War can be played in a game.

Who gains the pool? Player, who played the master, or the one, that
was last to put pool on the card? If correct answer is the first
variant - then I don't get the point of "Any Methuselah..." on this
card.

sg3kmb6...@gmail.com

не прочитано,
29 мая 2008 г., 05:52:2629.05.2008
On May 29, 11:44 am, Maegnar <Maeg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Open War
> +1 stealth action. Requires a baron.
> Put this card in play. Anarch vampires can enter combat with any
> minion as a D-action. They can burn a location as a D-action that
> costs 2 pool. Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to move 1
> counter from his or her pool to this card. When this card has 4 pool,
> burn it an gain 4 pool. Only one Open War can be played in a game.
>
> Who gains the pool? Player, who played the master, or the one, that
> was last to put pool on the card? If correct answer is the first
> variant - then I don't get the point of "Any Methuselah..." on this
> card.

I don't see why anyone other than the controller/player of the master
that should gain any pool, and the point of "Any methusaleh" would be
that the other players (potentially four of them) would pay a pool or
so each in order to remove the card and not get rushed by anarchs.

Salem

не прочитано,
29 мая 2008 г., 06:07:2829.05.2008
Maegnar wrote:

> Also this
>
> Open War
> +1 stealth action. Requires a baron.
> Put this card in play. Anarch vampires can enter combat with any
> minion as a D-action. They can burn a location as a D-action that
> costs 2 pool. Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to move 1
> counter from his or her pool to this card. When this card has 4 pool,
> burn it an gain 4 pool. Only one Open War can be played in a game.
>
> Who gains the pool? Player, who played the master, or the one, that
> was last to put pool on the card? If correct answer is the first
> variant - then I don't get the point of "Any Methuselah..." on this
> card.

the person who controls the card gets the pool.

other methuselahs might be putting the pool on it because, say, they are
sick of having their minions repeatedly attacked as free D actions.

--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

LSJ

не прочитано,
29 мая 2008 г., 06:58:0729.05.2008
François wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> First of all, I didn't see the actual cards, so I hope I got the texts
> from the spoilers posted on this group right.
>
> Constant Revolution
> +1 stealth action. Requires an anarch. Unique.
> Put this card in play with 1 counter. During your untap phase, put a
> counter on this card. During each other Methuselah's untap phase, he
> or she must burn X pool and/or cards at random from his or her hand,
> where X is the number of counters on this card. Any vampire may burn
> this card as a D-action that costs 1 pool.
>
> Are the cards discarded simultaneously ? Or does a Methuselah discard
> one card, draw back, discard another card, etc. (assuming there are
> several counters on the Revolution) ?

Assuming card text above is correct: X cards, not 1 card X times.

> If the cards are discarded simultaneously, and there are a number of
> counters greater than the number of cards in that Methuselah's hand,
> that methuselah cannot avoid to pay pool for the counters in excess,
> can he ?
>
>
> Final Loosening
> Reaction
> aus/dem/for
> Requires an anarch.
> aus: Play when an action vampire would gain 1 or more blood. The
> action vampire and this reacting anarch each gain 1 blood instead.
> dem: Gain 4 votes.
> for: Only usable when an ally is acting. The action fails and the ally
> takes 1 damage. Tap this reacting anarch.
>
> How does the auspex effect interact with superior Voter Captivation ?
> For example, a referendum passes with a 4 votes difference. Acting
> vampire plays superior Voter Cap. Does he announce how much of the
> blood he intends to move to his pool ? Assuming he would gain 2 blood
> et move 2 other blood to his pool, and an anarch plays Final Loosening
> at auspex : does he gain 2 pool and 1 blood or does he gain 1 blood or
> 1 pool (is Final Loosening applied before the blood would be moved to
> the pool ?) ?

I think your question is: does the vampire gain 4 blood and then the Methuselah
moves up to 2 of them from the vampire to her pool, or does the Methuselah
choose one or two counters to go to her pool instead of to the vampire in the
first place?

The answer is given in Voter Captivation's card text: "instead", meaning the
acting vampire never gains that blood (nor "would gain" that blood).

JJeff

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 04:29:4930.05.2008
One question on Keystone Kine, based on spoilers:

Keystone Kine
Action. Requires an anarch.
[cel] and/or [nec] and/or [obf]
Bleed.
If using [cel], he or she gains 1 blood
If using [nec], the bleed is at +1 bleed
If using [obf], you may burn an ally controlled by your prey whose
cost is not greater that the bleed amount .

Question: Why is this card differently worded than the other anarach 3-
way cards?
Am I to assume that if the vampire has ALL 3 disciplines, ALL three
effects listed apply for the bleed?

The [obf] one is an Imbuded killer since they all have a cost of 0,
right?

Subquestion: How does this work with Ian Forestal (if I Anarch him)

Ian Forestal
Tremere antitribu 8
Sabbat
Group: 2
Ian can play cards of any Discipline as though he has the basic level
of that Discipline. Master Discipline cards played on him grant the
superior level of that Discipline.

sg3kmb6...@gmail.com

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 04:54:1330.05.2008
On May 30, 10:29 am, JJeff <JeffJ...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One question on Keystone Kine, based on spoilers:
> [snip]

> The [obf] one is an Imbuded killer since they all have a cost of 0,
> right?
>

http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/?line=Checklist_NightsOfReckoning

Imbued are new crypt cards. An imbued is considered a mortal ally, not
a vampire.[...] Their cost is also their starting life, and it is
specified on each card individually (like capacity).

Salem

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 04:58:3230.05.2008
JJeff wrote:
> One question on Keystone Kine, based on spoilers:
>
> Keystone Kine
> Action. Requires an anarch.
> [cel] and/or [nec] and/or [obf]
> Bleed.
> If using [cel], he or she gains 1 blood
> If using [nec], the bleed is at +1 bleed
> If using [obf], you may burn an ally controlled by your prey whose
> cost is not greater that the bleed amount .
>
> Question: Why is this card differently worded than the other anarach 3-
> way cards?

because it works differently.

> Am I to assume that if the vampire has ALL 3 disciplines, ALL three
> effects listed apply for the bleed?

that would be what the text says, yeah.

> The [obf] one is an Imbuded killer since they all have a cost of 0,
> right?

nope. their cost is their starting life, as pointed out by the other poster.

> Subquestion: How does this work with Ian Forestal (if I Anarch him)

he can only pretend to have 1 discipline he doesn't have for any given
card he plays.
(precedents set by Forced March, etc rulings with him).

Blooded Sand

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 05:53:2630.05.2008
Power of One

Requires an anarch
cost 1 blood
obt: only usable when an action is blocked, the blocking minion burns
2 blood or life before combat (if any)
pot: +1 bleed
pre: +1 bleed, or +1 bleed and +1 stealth. you cannot play another
stealth modifier to increase this bleed amount

pot not having the "you cannot..." caveat means you can stack em,
right?

Jozxyqk

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 06:10:4130.05.2008

Well, a single minion can never stack the same action modifier.
But it does mean that you can stack it with something else (i.e. Iron Glare),
or with pot/obf anarchs with Mask of 1000 Faces.

Peter D Bakija

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 10:21:3130.05.2008
On May 30, 4:58 am, Salem <salem_christ....@hotmail.com> wrote:
> because it works differently.

Are we sure it works differently? I read the card to say "bleed" at
the top, as all the actions are bleeds, and it saves verbiage--it
could say "bleed, do X; bleed do Y; bleed do Z" or it could say
"bleed. If X do X; if Y do Y; if Z do Z." I'm unsure that if you have
cel, nec, obf and you bleed with this card, you get to bleed at +1,
gain a blood, and burn an ally all at the same time.

-Peter

Salem

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 10:37:3830.05.2008

the key is in the 'and/or' text.

you can play it like a regular 3-way, by choosing the 'or' between the
discipline symbols.

but if you choose to play it with the 'and's, then you quite obviously
apply all the effects of the disciplines you are using. That's what
'and' means.

Malone

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 11:45:3330.05.2008

> > Are we sure it works differently? I read the card to say "bleed" at
> > the top, as all the actions are bleeds, and it saves verbiage--it
> > could say "bleed, do X; bleed do Y; bleed do Z" or it could say
> > "bleed. If X do X; if Y do Y; if Z do Z." I'm unsure that if you have
> > cel, nec, obf and you bleed with this card, you get to bleed at +1,
> > gain a blood, and burn an ally all at the same time.
>
> the key is in the 'and/or' text.
>
> you can play it like a regular 3-way, by choosing the 'or' between the
> discipline symbols.
>
> but if you choose to play it with the 'and's, then you quite obviously
> apply all the effects of the disciplines you are using. That's what
> 'and' means.


Rafaele Giovanni bleeds my predator for 3, burns my prey's War Ghoul
and gains a blood, all from one action!

Malone

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 11:53:3330.05.2008

> Rafaele Giovanni bleeds my predator for 3, burns my prey's War Ghoul
> and gains a blood, all from one action!

Suppose that War Ghoul was on the Red List. Was Rafaele's action
directed (bleed predator), allowing him to get a Trophy, or not?

Malone

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 11:57:1930.05.2008

Oops!!! Rafaele's 'bleed predator' is an action which is separate
from using an action card, of course.

Peter D Bakija

не прочитано,
30 мая 2008 г., 16:19:2730.05.2008
In article <4840...@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
Salem <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> the key is in the 'and/or' text.

Ah, yes. I missed that on first look. That is kinda crazy.

Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff

Joscha

не прочитано,
31 мая 2008 г., 04:01:3931.05.2008
Another question to a TR card:

Blade Clot [TR:R]
Cardtype: Action Modifier/Combat.
Requires an anarch.
Only usable when this anarch diablerizes a vampire with a capacity
above 6. Put this card in play with three clot counters. When an
anarch you control inflicts hand or melee weapon damage, you may move
a clot counter from this card to the opposing minion. **A minion with
a clot counter goes to torpor or is burned during his or her untap
phase.** If an older vampire rescues the vampire, burn the clot
counter.

If a vampire has a clot counter on her in her untap phase she goes to
torpor, if the minion is an ally it burns as it can not go to torpor.
What if a vampire is already in torpor? Actually she can't go again to
torpor, does she burn instead?

sutekh_23

не прочитано,
31 мая 2008 г., 04:14:5731.05.2008

Unfortunately not, the unlucky vampire just stays in torpor.

Sutekh_23

Blooded Sand

не прочитано,
31 мая 2008 г., 09:24:3831.05.2008

So this follows the tap a tapped vamp, a lah brujah debate? Torporise
a torpored vamp, kind of...

Crap... card is merely good, not broken... dang... :)

Matthew T. Morgan

не прочитано,
31 мая 2008 г., 10:10:4231.05.2008

You mean it's the controller's choice. The clotted vampire goes to torpor
or burns. It's possible his Methuselah will want to just be rid of the
little ingrate. Go to torpor, while I'm trying to win here? How dare
you!

Matt Morgan

Joscha

не прочитано,
3 июн. 2008 г., 10:10:3503.06.2008
> Crap... card is merely good, not broken... dang... :)- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>

Is it really a, even merely, good card ;o)? I mean you have to
torporize and burn a vampire higher six, risking to lose your
diablerizing minion afterwards, just to get the opportunity to send
other vampires to torpor more easily. Granted your diablerist could be
a small one. But that's not that good. It would have been a good card,
if it threatened the destrution of the torporized vamp.

Thrall of Arika

не прочитано,
3 июн. 2008 г., 12:45:3403.06.2008
> if it threatened the destrution of the torporized vamp.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't see this card as one you casually throw into every Anarch
deck. I would think that if you have plans on using this card and
diablerizing an elder vampire, that your deck would be tuned to
getting away with the diablerie in the first place. That being the
case, an easy way to have vampires go to Torpor is greatly
appreciated, and forces your victim to go about rescuing, as you'll
likely to be swooping in to finish them off.

Even if you aren't going about diablerizing everything, if you Clot
your victim's eldest vampire, and put out Torpid Blood, you'll be
draining a fair bit of blood off them fairly quickly. Seems like a
pretty good card to me, in the right situation, of course.

Chris, Thrall of Arika

bwross

не прочитано,
3 июн. 2008 г., 17:08:0203.06.2008
On Jun 3, 10:10 am, Joscha <joscha.du...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Is it really a, even merely, good card ;o)? I mean you have to
> torporize and burn a vampire higher six, risking to lose your
> diablerizing minion afterwards, just to get the opportunity to send
> other vampires to torpor more easily. Granted your diablerist could be
> a small one. But that's not that good. It would have been a good card,
> if it threatened the destrution of the torporized vamp.

Yeah, my plan for using it is to let a weenie take the blame. People
get too hung up on trying to have diablerists survive at times... it's
perfectly okay to toss a weenie for a fattie, especially if you get
candy like Blade Clot for doing it. Adding support for surviving is
nice (Stealing Years or such), but you're probably better off using
those card slots for something else and just planning on using
disposable combat weenies.

Is Blade Clot good candy? Well, I think it's pretty good. It's more
than just the opportunity to send other vampires to torpor more
easily. It's the potential to send fatties there and keep them
there. And like Cobra Fangs, it makes a Fame double dunk one rush
action easier... and if the clotted, famous vampire is your prey's
largest he'll have to deal to get rid of the clot (which might not be
possible) or burn the vampire to keep you from rescuing him again
every turn (there's your destruction threat). At the very least, if
the vampire isn't his largest, he'll have to take a second dunk before
getting the chance to rescue.

So I can realistically see adding one or two to a weenie anarch combat
deck (especially something like Nozzie, where you have obf). It has
good synergy with the things your deck is going to be doing anyways.

Brent

coincoi...@hotmail.com

не прочитано,
6 июн. 2008 г., 20:01:2106.06.2008
Another question:
Is the action made by an anarch to add one blood one Calvin Cleaver a
"require anarch" action in purpose of playing Crimethinc on it?

Cardtext:
Calvin Cleaver - Gangrel - gr4 pro for. Camarilla. Calvin may add a
blood to an anarch as a +1 stealth action. Once each turn, an anarch
may add a blood to Calvin as a +1 stealth action

Crimethinc.
Requires an anarch. Play after resolving a successful action that
requires an anarch or makes this vampire an anarch
pro: untap this vampire
qui: untap another ready anarch
tha: put this card in play. During your minion phase, you may burn a
pool to untap a ready anarch you control

thx
orian

leon.t...@gmail.com

не прочитано,
7 июн. 2008 г., 03:27:2907.06.2008
On Jun 4, 2:45 am, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com>
wrote:

I was thinking it would go in Muaziz Baltimore Purge decks maybe?
Dunk everyone, Muaziz eats someone, gets a vial of clots. Get in a
fight, hit someone with an unpreventable-by-fortitude strike, give em
some DVT.
Would that work? I guess so. Would it be worth it? Maybe not.

JH

не прочитано,
7 июн. 2008 г., 03:57:0207.06.2008

Yeah. Anarch adding blood to Calvin is an action that requires an
anarch.

floppyzedolfin

не прочитано,
9 июн. 2008 г., 05:50:3909.06.2008

I'd say no. I'd even make a parallel with Mata Hari not being able to
act via the Madness Network if she's not a regular Malkavian (Clan
Imp / Derange).

floppyzedolfin

не прочитано,
9 июн. 2008 г., 06:05:0809.06.2008
On 9 juin, 11:50, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd say no. I'd even make a parallel with Mata Hari not being able to
> act via the Madness Network if she's not a regular Malkavian (Clan
> Imp / Derange).

That's totally wrong, of course !

JH

не прочитано,
9 июн. 2008 г., 06:08:5409.06.2008

Mata Hari can only play cards that require a sect and/or clan, not do
things that are allowed to only certain sect and/or clan. Thus Mata
Hari + Madness Network will never work. Playing a card and using an
effect on a card are two completely different things. On the other
hand the action Calvin Cleaver enables Anarchs to do is clearly an
action that requires an Anarch and thus enables the use of CrimethInc.

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