Brujah Antitribu Newsletter - Volume 2 Issue 5
Wes
Volume 2, Issue 5
March 2001
Author: Wes
==========================================================
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Introduction and News
New Bloodlines - Descriptions
New Disciplines - Descriptions
Vampire Analysis - Bronwen
Sign Off
==========================================================
INTRODUCTION AND NEWS
This just in from Stephen Wieck from White Wolf:
["Bloodlines" will follow Final Nights and become the third expansion from
White Wolf for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle.
Bloodlines will contain over 120 new cards, detailing the Ahrimanes, Baali,
Blood Brothers, Daughters of Cacophony, Gargoyles, Harbingers of Skulls,
Kiasyd, Nagaraja, Salubri, Samedi, and True Brujah along with each faction's
unique vampiric powers.
Booster packs only.
December 2001 release.]
Based on this news, I've decided to spend the majority of this newsletter
discussing the new bloodlines and what this entails for the game. Many of
the people who play Jyhad/V:tES do NOT play the role-playing game that it is
based on and I thought they might appreciate a rundown of what each
bloodline is about and what special disciplines they possess.
==========================================================
NEW BLOODLINES - DESCRIPTIONS
Note that some of these bloodlines have undergone significant changes from
2nd edition to the revised 3rd edition of Vampire: the Masquerade. This is
relevant because there is a precedent with the Ventrue Antitribu. The
!Ventrue originally had the discipline spread of Auspex, Dominate and
Fortitude (as well as being mostly gutter-punks) to their revised ret-con
that has the traditional Ventrue discipline spread. Also, Malkavians in 3rd
edition now have access to Dementation rather than (sometimes as well as)
Dominate as a clan discipline. Confused yet?
My point is that it is possible that either old or new versions of the
bloodline could be used, though smart money would be on the 3rd edition
revisions. I don't have access to ALL of the books that detail the older
versions, so some of this information might be slightly outdated or
inaccurate. I've done some major Google searches to fill in gaps where
necessary.
Ahrimanes
-----------
Founded by Muricia, a Gangrel Antitribu, this all-female bloodline remains
as reclsuive as its founder. Members are not embraced into the bloodline but
inducted via a ritual from other clans, usually the Country Gangrel. They
are nominally Sabbat but rarely interact with the sect. They have not been
contacted in years and there have been rumours of their destructionl. As a
result of the ritual, their vitae becomes so weak that they are unable to
sire childer or create blood bonds. Ahrimanes are shamans and mystics,
focusing on their connection to animals, spirits and their own inner beast.
Disciplines: Animalism + Presence + [Spiritus]
Baali
-----
This ancient and abhorrent bloodline has plagued the other clans since its
inception. Thought to be an evil offshoot of the lost Salubri clan, they
were prominent antagonists to other clans throughout the Dark Ages but are
now believed to be extinct. They are primarily interested in demon-worship
and corruption. It is known that Saulot, the progenitor of the Salubri clan
made it a personal mission to rid the world of the Baali blight; whether
this was a noble cause or as an attempt to correct a mistake of his own
making is debatable.
Disciplines: Obfuscate + Presence + [Daimonion]
Blood Brothers
----------------
A modern experiment of the Tzimisce, this Sabbat bloodline is rare but
feared by those who have had the misfortune of meeting them. They are
mystically bonded to each other and are able to exchange limbs, take wounds
meant for each other and combine to form monstrous composite creatures. A
curious thing about the Blood Brothers is that they are crafted by the
Tzimisce to look identical; usually they have the appearance of a gang of
skinheads. This is an appropriate image as they are generally used by their
masters as shock troops. Because of their unique connection to each other,
they are vicious in combat, able to effectively work as a hive-mind.
Disciplines: Potence + Fortitude + [Sanguinus]
Daughters of Cacophany
-------------------------
Often mistaken for Toreadors, members of this bloodline are known for their
exquisite singing voices. They are easily distracted and often seem...
distant. Though they have no allegiance to the Camarilla or the Sabbat, they
tend to reside in Camarilla cities, probably because it is safer for them.
Strangely, this bloodline appeared out of nowhere in the 1700s. Though they
do seem to share the stage with the Toreador, those who have been victims of
the madness induced by their singing claim that they may be a bloodline of
the Malkavian clan. The Sirens are cursed with constant maddening music in
their minds distracting them from anything but the songs in their heads.
Disciplines: Fortitude + Presence + [Melpominee]
Gargoyles
----------
Originally a cruel experiment of the nascent Tremere clan, these winged
monstrosities are now free from slavery... mostly. They are mentally slow
but physically powerful. Many Gargoyles hire themselves out as mercenaries,
often in the role of assassins or bodyguards. In the Dark Ages, the Tremere
captured hostile Nosferatu and Gangrel and used them with rituals to create
this bloodline. Many elder members of these clans still resent the Tremere
for this crime, though they are forced to work together in the Camarilla.
Most Gargoyles are members of the Camarilla; the pay is much better after
all... there are still members of the bloodline that chose to side with the
Sabbat, all the better to get back at their former masters.
Disciplines: Fortitude + Potence + [Flight] + [Visceratika]
(Note: In some WW publications, Flight is a subset of Visceratika.)
Harbingers of Skulls
--------------------
Possibly the Cappadocian clan returned from the grave, this hideous
bloodline recently appeared on the scene, apparently right from the
Underworld. They are ancient, powerful and REALLY pissed off at the Giovanni
clan for some reason. They have joined the Sabbat but are so rare that most
shovel-heads have never heard of them. They appear as emaciated corpses and
often wear masks to hide their bare skulls. Although Sabbat, they are so
powerful that most elder Sabbat do not insist that they participate in sect
rites; the Lazarenes do whatever it is they do without prying Cardinals or
Archbishops. Considering the state of their flesh, most Sabbat are happy to
avoid sharing the vaulderie with these monsters.
Disciplines: Auspex + Fortitude + Necromancy
Kiasyd
-------
This strange bloodline is derived from the Lasombra and seem to share some
connection with the Fae. These recluses are known for their enigmatic beauty
and are respected for their vast arcane knowledge. The Weirdlings are almost
exclusively members of the Sabbat but like the other Sabbat bloodlines they
rarely participate in sect rites. Possibly because of their fae heritage,
Kiasyd have very strange features. Often standing over seven feet tall, with
a blue sheen to their skin and deep black eyes, they rarely pass for human.
Disciplines: Obtenebration + Dominate + [Mytherceria]
(Note: Formerly Necromancy was a clan discipline)
Nagaraja
----------
Unlike most vampires, this bloodline must survive by eating the flesh of
their victims. So rare that most vampires would not recognize the name, this
cabal of sorcerer-vampires guard their secrets closely. Some believe that
the cabal attempted to follow the success of the Tremere's transformation
from mages to vampires, but the Flesh Eaters aren't talking. Rare in the
extreme, and despised where they are known, this bloodline understandably
keeps a low profile.
Disciplines: Auspex + Dominate + Necromancy
(Note: They originally possessed a discipline called Nihilistics which has
since been incorporated into canon as a distinct 'path' of Necromancy)
Salubri
-------
Almost extinct, this bloodline has fallen from grace. They were one of the
original thirteen clans but when their founder Saulot was diablerized by the
mage known as Tremere, they were hunted almost to extinction. Tremere
propaganda ensures that these gentle healers are universally regarded as
evil incarnate. Few vampires are willing to look past this false image to
the nobility, wisdom and serenity that they inevitably possess. Fewer still
wish to defy the wishes of the powerful Tremere clan. Salubri are unique in
that they possess a third eye, in the centre of their forehead which glows
when they use their signature discipline. Unfortunately, this is also a dead
giveaway for hunters and the Tremere who constantly hunt them down.
Disciplines: Auspex + Fortitude + [Obeah/Valeren]
(Note: Obeah is the main discipline, which I believe most likely to appear
in the expansion. Valeren is the 'reverse-image' of Obeah and practiced by
the Salubri Antitribu who are members of the Sabbat. It could possibly be
included but I doubt it.)
Samedi
--------
Hideous zombies, these vampires are shunned by most other clans. Not only do
they appear to be emaciated corpses (and another surviving offshoot of the
Cappadocians?) but they are obnoxious enough to rub your face in it. Many
seem to have a bizarre sense of gallows humour; insisting on shaking hands
to close deals; an unpleasant experience for the other party to say the
least. They often work as assassins; their unique power is very effective
for them in this role.
Disciplines: Fortitude + Obfuscate + [Thanatosis]
(Note: In early publications they possessed Necromancy, Obfuscate and
Thanatosis.)
True Brujah
------------
Unknown to the majority of Kindred, the Brujah clan are not the collective
childer of the antedilluvean founder. They are actually descendants of a
vampire named Troile who diablerized the founder, his/her sire. The True
Brujah descend from the actual founder and are secretly plotting the
destruction of their traitorous cousins. Although they are committed to this
goal, the members of this clan share a common weaknes; complete emotional
detachment. Almost the opposite of the Brujah, the 'Trujah' are incapable of
understanding humanity as anything other than a subject of study. They are
scholars sans peer, dedicated to unearthing secrets and artefacts to help
them in their ultimate goal.
Disciplines: Potence + Presence + [Temporis]
(Note: this discipline has been completely altered from its original
twink-ridden form. IMHO it's still 'broken' in the RPG but could make for
some interesting cards/abilities in V:tES)
==========================================================
NEW DISCIPLINES - DESCRIPTIONS
Here I will briefly describe the new disciplines and give my own commentary
on their possible application to V:tES.
Daimonion
----------
Primarily associated with manipulating the fears and weaknesses of their
victims or summoning hell-fire to torture them with, this discipline is
antagonistic to say the least. I think its main application could be for
summoning allies, nasty NASTY allies. The ability to launch hell-fire at
vampires could definitely be useful in combat, something similar to 'Breath
of the Dragon'. The fear/weakness manipulation angle could be applied to
stealth and intercept quite easily.
Melpominee
------------
This power is centred around the voice of the vampire. It can be used to
mystically throw a voice (yawn) or to communicate with those the vampire
knows. At lower levels it is fairly weak but masters of Melpominee learn how
to damage others with their voice (think Banshee from the X-Men). As far as
V:tES applications, I'm not sure... I find this discipline almost as boring
as the bloodline that uses it. I can see some sort of stealth/intercept
denial, similar to Chimerstry and the obvious combat applications. Not much
potential that I can see.
Mytherceria
------------
A very strange discipline, Mytherceria uses riddles and mental manipulation
to confuse and dazzle. It can remove the aura of an object or person (cancel
Auspex effects?), steal the memories of others and add protective wards to
objects or places. The ultimate toolbox discipline, the potential for V:tES
applications are promising. Protection of locations springs to mind, as well
as some intriguing action modifiers
Obeah
-------
Of all the new disciplines, this one strikes me as having the most
potential. Primarily a healing art, it allows the Salubri to heal wounds or
even derangements (Malkav and Saulot were good friends... you can see why).
Neutral Guard, the level three ability in the RPG gives the vampire an
ability to keep opponents at a distance. Obviously, defensive combat
applications spring to mind. How about this? The vampire plays a combat card
that allows him to ignore all range strikes as long as he can keep range at
long and not strike back (Salubri are generally pacifists).
Sanguinus
----------
Another discipline brimming with potential for V:tES. This discipline allows
the Blood Brothers to share perceptions, coordinate attacks and even share
limbs. I can see cards similar to Hidden Lurker enabling several BB's to
rush an opponent at the same time. Another neat idea would be to enable one
vampire with sanguinus to take damage intended for another. All Sanguinus
powers should rely on some kind of teamwork. Whether two distinct vampires
with Sanguinus OR one vampire card that represents a pack of Blood Brothers.
Since they NEVER work alone, this could work.
Spiritus
--------
This mystical connection to animal spirits allows the Ahrimanes to
effectively duplicate the abilities of animals to various effect. A
wolf-spirit could be invoked for 'wolf claws'... a stag-spirit for speed and
endurance. An interesting application might be to allow the vampire to play
Protean, Celerity or Fortitude cards as if they possessed the inferior
ability but at a cost of extra blood. Well, maybe not... but there may be
possibilities with this discipline.
Temporis
---------
A Japanese method of battering and frying seafood. Oops, wrong reference
book. Temporis is the signature discipline of the 'Trujah' and the bane of
storytellers everywhere. It involves minor time-travel and alteration of
temporal perceptions. It does have some potential for V:tES I think, but I'm
already afraid of any player that would want to play with it. Effects
similar to 'Change of Target' or 'Psyche!' would seem pretty appropriate. An
action that causes the game to be canceled and rescheduled for a week later
would NOT be cool.
Thanatosis
-----------
This discipline is NASTY. The Samedi use their control of putrefaction and
decay to terrorize and immobilize their opponents. Limbs can be made useless
(Disarm?) or victims can simply be 'rotted' away at the vampire's touch.
Combat cards are the most obvious application here... I would think similar
to Vicissitude's cards like Bonecrarft or Fleshcraft but a lot more
dangerous. This discipline also gives the vampire the ability to become a
pile of ashes... Strike: Combat Ends would be the obvious analog for this.
Visceratika + Flight
-------------------
The Gargoyles have two signature disciplines. Flight is pretty
straightforward; Gargoyles possess the ability to fly. Visceratika gives the
Gargoyle the ability to blend in with its surroundings, grants awareness of
an area it protects or the ability to sink safely into stone. These could be
represented with stealth, intercept and Strike: Combat Ends respectively. I
see Gargoyles more as blocking combat-monkeys than as rushers. The ability
to protect a location or another vampire would fit in well with their theme
I think.
=====================================================================
VAMPIRE ANALYSIS - BRONWEN
Name: Bronwen
Clan: Brujah Antitribu
Capacity: 10
CEL POT PRE dom obt
Sabbat Priscus: Once each combat, Bronwen may dodge as a strike.
And you thought I wasn't going to mention the clan this newsletter is
supposed to be about? Here is the oldest of the Brujah Antitribu... Bronwen.
Hmmm. She SEEMS good but let's look at her a bit more closely.
GOOD - She has all three clan disciplines at superior
GOOD - She is a Priscus, giving her a good chance at three votes
GOOD - She can dodge as a strike
BAD - She costs 10 pool!
BAD - Her dodge special is useful for wimpo clans. We need a !Brujah who can
dish it out NOT run away!
BAD - Her extra disciplines don't mesh well with !Brujah decks
Her disciplines, abilities and title are worth the ten pool investment in
theory BUT do we really need any of her specials?
Unless we are working closely with the Lasombra her extra disciplines aren't
likely to help us too much. Neither Obtenebration or Dominate are great for
combat. Dominate could assist us in bleeds made with a Presence bleed
action, I suppose, but that seems an inefficient use of a large vampire.
Obtenebration at inferior can be used defensively in combat but why would we
need that? Even if we did need it, her ability is there for free.
Obtenebration could be used for stealth to back a bleed or a rush action but
again that seems inefficient. All in all, neither Dominate or Obtenebration
are likely to help us much in most !Brujah decks.
Her title, while nice is easily thwarted by another Methuselah having
another Priscus on the table. Furthermore, it will be rare for our clan to
be a political force to reckon with. Sure we have Presence, which helps us
win votes but at the end of the day our strength is not in the political
arena. Most of the more useful Sabbat title vote cards are playable by an
Archbishop or Cardinal, many are not available to either Bishops or Prisci.
Therefore, a Priscus might be more useful as a vote deterrent... a way to
stop hostile votes from landing in your lap. However, a dedicated vote deck
will not only laugh at your Priscus, and as a !Brujah you won't even be able
to block the votes with intercept most of the time. Much better to use a
smaller vampire and a Bum's Rush and show that voting vampire a different
sort of political arena: the one where they get decapitated.
Being able to dodge as a strike might come in handy sometimes but with a
vampire this size, you should have the upper hand in combat. She would
however work well with Blur cards. Strike: Dodge as your initial strike and
then bang-bang with some increased hand damage.
All in all, Bronwen is too expensive for what she provides. Unless you are
focusing on politics, she's probably best left out of most !Brujah decks.
============================================================
SIGN OFF
I hope you've found this newsletter informative. I had to dig up my old RPG
books for the bloodlines and disciplines, though obviously there was much
more I could write about each.
Regarding the 'Bloodlines' expansion, I am cautious but excited. I trust
White Wolf, the design team and especially LSJ to make a superior product.
The fact that White Wolf is LISTENING to what we have to say is encouraging
and makes me even more willing to give this expansion the benefit of the
doubt.
Next issue I will give you a Brujah/!Brujah deck kindly submitted by David
Cherryholmes. I would have included it this time around but I've already
written too much.
If you have any questions, comments or flammables please contact me at:
gh...@mnsi.net
Henke
rush-deck... And you're also dissing my dear Obtenebration... which is a
fantastic discipline! Two strategies: intercept combat: Bronwen, Jacko and
Sela gets +2 intercept, blocks and kills. Bronwen could have eternal
vigilance...
vote: Bronwen, Jacko and Sela votes at +3 stealth, adding their superior
presence modifiers... And with a minion-tap, bwitch, votecap, Bronwen is
almost free!
Wes
"Henke" <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote
> I think you're focusing a little to much on making the !brujah a dedicated
> rush-deck...
That's funny. The last time I was criticized for not focusing on their rush
ability heh. I don't think she works well in any !Brujah deck I have seen.
She's just too expensive. What she has to offer isn't worth 10 pool. I can
afford Sela and Jimmy Dunn for the same investment and I'm sure they'll be
more useful to me.
>And you're also dissing my dear Obtenebration... which is a
> fantastic discipline!
Oh no... not at all! I love Obtenebration. I may write the !Brujah
newsletter but I took a Lasombra deck to my first tournament. I just don't
like the specific combination of disciplines she has. They don't scream at
me with possibilities.
> Two strategies: intercept combat: Bronwen, Jacko and
> Sela gets +2 intercept, blocks and kills. Bronwen could have eternal
> vigilance...
> vote: Bronwen, Jacko and Sela votes at +3 stealth, adding their superior
> presence modifiers... And with a minion-tap, bwitch, votecap, Bronwen is
> almost free!
Bronwen (10) Jacko (8? don't have cards handy) and Sela (6). That's 24 pool
spent. Add to that whatever you are spending on permanent intercept cards
(if any) and that's mighty close to self-ousting.
Hmmm, White Wolf site AND Lasombra's site are down apparently so I'll have
to wing this by memory. Forgive (and please correct) any errors, cool?
I think you mean using the Obtenebration intercept cards: Eyes of the Night
and umm... the other one. Well, both are great at superior in fact the
maneuver/press of Eyes of the Night would make a great replacement for Flash
in a pinch. What if your prey doesn't take actions that you can block
though? Could be workable otherwise but it sounds a bit fragile to me. I
don't like to play a 'reactive' game if I can help it. I'd rather THEY react
to me. (Isn't Eternal Vigilance Cardinal/Archbishop only? Can't recall).
As for Obtenebration stealth, all three !Brujah have inferior OBT so they're
paying quite a bit and with the Presence modifiiers that adds a lot of
conditions for an ideal hand. A better way to get votes through would be to
scare them away. I don't associate !Brujah with stealth. Their 'stealth'
most of the time consists of 'Let me pass or I kill you.'. Bruise and Vote,
comparable to Bruise and Bleed.
I think this deck is possible BUT it could be done so much better with other
clans and other discipline combos. When I design a new deck... I don't want
to make the deck work for the disciplines. I want to make the disciplines
work for the deck... does that make sense? It does to me but I haven't slept
for 48 hours.
Both examples seem to have too many moving parts to me, especially if we
also add enough combat cards to be an effective blocker/bruiser. If you have
made effective decks such as this, please post them. I'm be curious to see
how they look... and how your experiences with them have been.
Thanks for the feedback!
WES
Derek Ray
>
>"Henke" <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote
>> I think you're focusing a little to much on making the !brujah a dedicated
>> rush-deck...
>
>That's funny. The last time I was criticized for not focusing on their rush
>ability heh. I don't think she works well in any !Brujah deck I have seen.
This would tell you that you should write in your newsletter what YOU
want to, and sod all to everyone who thinks you should write something
different. =)
>She's just too expensive. What she has to offer isn't worth 10 pool. I can
>afford Sela and Jimmy Dunn for the same investment and I'm sure they'll be
>more useful to me.
Hm. I made a pretty solid !Brujah bruise-and-vote awhile back... have
to go rummage and find it, but with Bronwen and Salinger out, you can
usually drop a BO for the votes that really -need- to pass, and beat
hell out of anyone who gets in your way. War Party starts to do real
well here, too, since you can throw a Party for any other voters who
feel disinclined to vote your way. A couple Private Audience would
make a great addition as well ("the Ventrue deck over there can fuck
off for this vote"), not to mention Jacko and Richter turning
themselves into Cardinals. Covenant of Blud! (sic)* would also be
very nice to let your guys go a-thumping.
Sela, Victor Tolliver, Jimmy, and Rigby all help out a lot as the
"backup brigade". And it's always your option whether to use Voter
Cap or Taste of Vitae. =) The trick with large vampires, as always,
is that you HAVE to start Minion Tapping them; it's simply too risky
to influence out Bronwen and Salinger and have 19 pool "in use" on the
table. Much nicer to have Bronwen and Salinger with 3 blood each, and
all that POT/CEL to defend themselves with.
>>And you're also dissing my dear Obtenebration... which is a
>> fantastic discipline!
>
>Oh no... not at all! I love Obtenebration. I may write the !Brujah
>newsletter but I took a Lasombra deck to my first tournament. I just don't
>like the specific combination of disciplines she has. They don't scream at
>me with possibilities.
"Black Metamorphosis" at inferior grants one additional strike per
ROUND. Trap/Torn Signpost should dispose of most any vampire who
isn't carrying S:CE, and if they are, well, you can always be Grabby.
Jacko doesn't even need the press card since he can just Grab and swat
for 9 on round 1.
>> Two strategies: intercept combat: Bronwen, Jacko and
>> Sela gets +2 intercept, blocks and kills. Bronwen could have eternal
>> vigilance...
Card-intensive... darksight + eyes of the night is a long way to go.
I don't know that I see this being TOO useful; Forgotten Labyrinth is
seeing a lot of use these days, what with the high-powered Tzimisce
running around. Not to mention Omaya, the ultimate "Wall" vampire.
(sideline: I have a deck that is based around Omaya, Gunther, Bear
Paw, and Caitlin; it uses every single "steal me please" location out
there, backed up with an Owl Companion and Trap/Carrion Crows/Song of
Serenity. Last time I played it, I think I gained 6 pool on my final
untap... with only one Blood Doll =)
>> vote: Bronwen, Jacko and Sela votes at +3 stealth, adding their superior
>> presence modifiers... And with a minion-tap, bwitch, votecap, Bronwen is
>> almost free!
>
>Bronwen (10) Jacko (8? don't have cards handy) and Sela (6). That's 24 pool
>spent. Add to that whatever you are spending on permanent intercept cards
>(if any) and that's mighty close to self-ousting.
Minion Tap before influencing additional vamps, of course. :)
>in a pinch. What if your prey doesn't take actions that you can block
>though? Could be workable otherwise but it sounds a bit fragile to me. I
>don't like to play a 'reactive' game if I can help it. I'd rather THEY react
>to me. (Isn't Eternal Vigilance Cardinal/Archbishop only? Can't recall).
Reactive is powerful. But the !Brujah simply can't get past +3
stealth without tons of setup time, and any good stealth deck will be
able to generate +3 pretty much at will.
>scare them away. I don't associate !Brujah with stealth. Their 'stealth'
>most of the time consists of 'Let me pass or I kill you.'. Bruise and Vote,
>comparable to Bruise and Bleed.
Yes. =) Torn Signpost/Blur = a lot of bruising, especially when you
note that Amelia, Richter, Jacko, Salinger, and Bronwen ALL pack the
disciplines necessary to make this happen. Sure, you don't ALWAYS
need to hit for 9, but when you can do it with only two cards, why
waste time? :) Poor ole Richter can't Voter Cap to your pool,
though, and his Bewitching Orations are kinda crummy. But he makes up
for it with the ability to punch you for 6 with just a Blur.
Also note that Staredown becomes a very strong card in this deck, as
opposed to Immortal Grapple. The Gangrel and Tzimisce both have the
ability to intercept your +1 stealth vote and poke your eye out; since
all your voters (except poor Richter) have superior PRE, you can drop
the Torn Signpost, dodge the aggravated strike, and Blur for some free
damage. Or you can S:CE against an opponent who just spat out
Trap/Carrion Crows/Blood of Acid. Not worth putting TOO many in, of
course, but something to consider as well.
>Both examples seem to have too many moving parts to me, especially if we
>also add enough combat cards to be an effective blocker/bruiser. If you have
>made effective decks such as this, please post them. I'm be curious to see
>how they look... and how your experiences with them have been.
Getting two voting vamps, worst-case scenario should be Sela and
Salinger. That's 3 table votes, plus one for your own vote card.
Plus four for a Bewitching Oration is eight votes. It takes a LOT of
table votes to override eight. While it's possible to see that, it's
also possible that you just spend some time collecting pool, making
deals, and occasionally reaching over and pounding someone's
vulnerable Prince into torpor until you reduce the votes BELOW eight,
or until you get enough pool to fetch more voters.
-- D
* based on my favourite screenplay,
VALLEY OF BLUD!
a Poignant Tragedie
inne Two Acttes
... with apologies to Terry Pratchett. :)
Rob Treasure
"Wes" <gh...@mnsi.net> wrote in message
news:991vj...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> BRUJAH ANTITRIBU NEWSLETTER
> Volume 2, Issue 5
> March 2001
> Author: Wes
[snip]
>
> Based on this news, I've decided to spend the majority of this newsletter
> discussing the new bloodlines and what this entails for the game. Many of
> the people who play Jyhad/V:tES do NOT play the role-playing game that it
is
> based on and I thought they might appreciate a rundown of what each
> bloodline is about and what special disciplines they possess.
>
[snip hugely useful WoD commentary]
Cool, thanks Wes made for an interesting read. HUGE potential for VTES Vamps
and cards. I guess some of the 'clans' may even be represented by Master
cards that transform a vampire into another of the new clans with all the
advantages and disadvantages of each.
> Regarding the 'Bloodlines' expansion, I am cautious but excited. I trust
> White Wolf, the design team and especially LSJ to make a superior product.
> The fact that White Wolf is LISTENING to what we have to say is
encouraging
> and makes me even more willing to give this expansion the benefit of the
> doubt.
Agree with you there.
Rob
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.237 / Virus Database: 115 - Release Date: 07/03/01
Wes
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k1s9bt09rkmsreg1l...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:07:54 -0800, "Wes" <gh...@mnsi.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Henke" <d98...@stud.hh.se> wrote
> >> I think you're focusing a little to much on making the !brujah a
dedicated
> >> rush-deck...
> >
> >That's funny. The last time I was criticized for not focusing on their
rush
> >ability heh. I don't think she works well in any !Brujah deck I have
seen.
>
> This would tell you that you should write in your newsletter what YOU
> want to, and sod all to everyone who thinks you should write something
> different. =)
No. I appreciate the feedback. If people actually make it through my
newsletters my ego is stroked sufficiently that I don't mind the criticism.
I enjoy writing them and I hope they're readable and informative. I also
recognize that I'm fairly new to the group and not privy to the discussions
of the last five years or so. By the suggestions and criticisms of a lot of
this newsgroup, I often tend to learn more about the clan than I teach,
which is a good thing IMHO. Whatever feedback I get is ends up as idea-fuel
for future newsletters.
So long as the criticism is constructive and good-natured... bring it on.
> Hm. I made a pretty solid !Brujah bruise-and-vote awhile back... have
> to go rummage and find it, but with Bronwen and Salinger out, you can
> usually drop a BO for the votes that really -need- to pass, and beat
> hell out of anyone who gets in your way. War Party starts to do real
> well here, too, since you can throw a Party for any other voters who
> feel disinclined to vote your way. A couple Private Audience would
> make a great addition as well ("the Ventrue deck over there can fuck
> off for this vote"), not to mention Jacko and Richter turning
> themselves into Cardinals. Covenant of Blud! (sic)* would also be
> very nice to let your guys go a-thumping.
>
> Sela, Victor Tolliver, Jimmy, and Rigby all help out a lot as the
> "backup brigade". And it's always your option whether to use Voter
> Cap or Taste of Vitae. =) The trick with large vampires, as always,
> is that you HAVE to start Minion Tapping them; it's simply too risky
> to influence out Bronwen and Salinger and have 19 pool "in use" on the
> table. Much nicer to have Bronwen and Salinger with 3 blood each, and
> all that POT/CEL to defend themselves with.
Sounds intriguing! Please post it (and allow me to print it).
Yeah, Minion Taps for sure BUT since the !Brujah don't have the 5th
Tradition available I would be a little nervous about that. Taste of Vitae
would help but then you also have to be sure you are getting into combat. Do
we want the votes to pass, or to be blocked so we can fill back up with
blood? Voter Cap could help if not blocked I guess. It seems a bit too
unfocussed but I'd love to see it in action.
> "Black Metamorphosis" at inferior grants one additional strike per
> ROUND. Trap/Torn Signpost should dispose of most any vampire who
> isn't carrying S:CE, and if they are, well, you can always be Grabby.
> Jacko doesn't even need the press card since he can just Grab and swat
> for 9 on round 1.
A Shade or two might be nice since we know that we'll be getting in
short-range combat... maybe.
> Trap/Carrion Crows/Song of Serenity.
Damn... I love that combo! I'm building this for Wednesday's game.
.
> Minion Tap before influencing additional vamps, of course. :)
Of course, but you better hope you have them at the right time. More cards
to take away focus. How many would you include though? I'm always cautious
about relying on Minion Taps. A lot of Sudden Reversals around here lately.
> Reactive is powerful. But the !Brujah simply can't get past +3
> stealth without tons of setup time, and any good stealth deck will be
> able to generate +3 pretty much at will.
Reactive is fun but it's not that effective in a !Brujah deck. Rush decks
are by their very nature proactive... but having a bit of intercepty ability
is nice too.
> Also note that Staredown becomes a very strong card in this deck, as
> opposed to Immortal Grapple. The Gangrel and Tzimisce both have the
> ability to intercept your +1 stealth vote and poke your eye out; since
> all your voters (except poor Richter) have superior PRE, you can drop
> the Torn Signpost, dodge the aggravated strike, and Blur for some free
> damage. Or you can S:CE against an opponent who just spat out
> Trap/Carrion Crows/Blood of Acid. Not worth putting TOO many in, of
> course, but something to consider as well.
Majesty might be better than Staredown in this case. Bleed for two with
Sela. If blocked, play Majesty... untap, then play a Parity Shift. But
still, it seems other clans are so much better at this sort of shit than the
!Bru(tes).
I don't know about Trap with Blood of Acid. At superior, when you take the
aggravated damage in the first round you'll be unlikely to go to the second
round. Trap becomes redundant... doesn't it? And at inferior, the opponent
is likely to lose more blood than you anyway. Of course, if someone played a
Trap while they were playing my !Brujah deck I'd probably thank them for it
:)
Cheers,
WES
Wes
"Rob Treasure" <Rob.Tr...@btinternet.com> wrote
> [snip hugely useful WoD commentary]
>
> Cool, thanks Wes made for an interesting read. HUGE potential for VTES
Vamps
> and cards. I guess some of the 'clans' may even be represented by Master
> cards that transform a vampire into another of the new clans with all the
> advantages and disadvantages of each.
You're very welcome! I'm glad you liked it. I found a web-page with some
more info, though some of it is outdated. It seems to be ripped right off of
the White Wolf books but I'm sure you can mine it for more information
before Mr. Wieck sues them :)
http://www.angelfire.com/de2/clans/
'Changing' clans is not really possible since you are basically 'born' into
one. It's not a matter of personal preference except for one notable
exception... Vlad Dracul. He was knowledgable about the clans while still a
mortal ghoul and was able to CHOOSE the Tzimisce as his clan, though that
story is way too complicated to get into here. Exactly why he would choose
the Tzimisce is beyond me. Maybe he wasn't happy with his appearance.
You can pretend to be another clan; the Setites often masquerade as other
clans for their own protection and convenience.
A Brujah could become a !Brujah though by renouncing his ties to the
Camarilla and participating in Sabbat ritae. The reverse is NOT so easy...
The shared blood bonds that occur after the Vaulderie pretty much ensure
that those who join the Sabbat STAY in the Sabbat. Actually, I was surprised
there were no cards to represent this in either Sabbat cardsets. Imagine:
Shovel Party
+1 Stealth (D) Action
Only usable by a Sabbat vampire.
Choose a vampire that is not Sabbat. That vampire is now considered a Sabbat
vampire. This vampire loses access to any Camarilla cards but gains access
to Sabbat cards. They are still considered to be the same clan.
In Jyhad, that !Malkavian card is more of a 'crazy' card than a real
clan-switch IMO. I guess the implication is supposed to be that the affected
vampire is now so fucked up in the head that she may as well be a !Malk.
AFAIK, there is no way in the World of Darkness to actually transform from
one clan to another... I could be wrong though.
Cheers,
WES
Derek Ray
>"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:k1s9bt09rkmsreg1l...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:07:54 -0800, "Wes" <gh...@mnsi.net> wrote:
>> This would tell you that you should write in your newsletter what YOU
>> want to, and sod all to everyone who thinks you should write something
>> different. =)
>
>No. I appreciate the feedback. If people actually make it through my
>newsletters my ego is stroked sufficiently that I don't mind the criticism.
>I enjoy writing them and I hope they're readable and informative. I also
>recognize that I'm fairly new to the group and not privy to the discussions
>of the last five years or so. By the suggestions and criticisms of a lot of
>this newsgroup, I often tend to learn more about the clan than I teach,
>which is a good thing IMHO. Whatever feedback I get is ends up as idea-fuel
>for future newsletters.
>
>So long as the criticism is constructive and good-natured... bring it on.
Well, yes. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't still stick to writing
about what you want to; it's just that you are willing to change what
you want by listening to other people. =) But make sure you actually
-want- it. The avenues of "rush" have been pretty thoroughly explored
in various forms or other; variants on it might be curious.
>Sounds intriguing! Please post it (and allow me to print it).
I found that I never filed it under ELDB (rare, for me, since I build
everything there first). I've since rebuilt it and it'll have to go
run through a test or two again. Bleh. But it's a 75-card version,
so it should be interesting; the last version was 90 and probably had
a bunch of crap in it.
>Yeah, Minion Taps for sure BUT since the !Brujah don't have the 5th
>Tradition available I would be a little nervous about that. Taste of Vitae
*shrug* Yes, but you do have intimidation on your side; it's no fun
to go pick on Bronwen with 3 blood and have her dodge and swat you for
6. If you're worried about Potence, leave a little bit more blood so
you can be sure to pay for your Blur even if you're IG'd.
Vamps don't HAVE to be full to be functional. =)
>would help but then you also have to be sure you are getting into combat. Do
>we want the votes to pass, or to be blocked so we can fill back up with
>blood? Voter Cap could help if not blocked I guess. It seems a bit too
>unfocussed but I'd love to see it in action.
You pick WHILE building the deck whether to include Bewitching
Oration/Voter Cap, or Bum's Rush/Taste of Vitae. =) Trying to do
both would probably be silly and excessively defocused. This version
I've got went towards the BO/VC line.
>> "Black Metamorphosis" at inferior grants one additional strike per
>> ROUND. Trap/Torn Signpost should dispose of most any vampire who
>> isn't carrying S:CE, and if they are, well, you can always be Grabby.
>> Jacko doesn't even need the press card since he can just Grab and swat
>> for 9 on round 1.
>
>A Shade or two might be nice since we know that we'll be getting in
>short-range combat... maybe.
Bleh. recruit action on TOP of the Black Metamorphosis? Given the
alternative of one or the other, I'd rather have the additional
strike, which will be for more than 1 extra point usually. Both,
well, that's taking an awful lot of time and blood to set up.
>> Trap/Carrion Crows/Song of Serenity.
>
>Damn... I love that combo! I'm building this for Wednesday's game.
Heh. The trick is getting the Owl Companions early on. Otherwise you
have no deterrent to people hurling weenies at you to come and get
your stuff. =) And that can be a real problem, especially if you get
Powerbase: Mexico City, a Blood Puppy, and Smiling Jack out.
>> Minion Tap before influencing additional vamps, of course. :)
>
>Of course, but you better hope you have them at the right time. More cards
>to take away focus. How many would you include though? I'm always cautious
>about relying on Minion Taps. A lot of Sudden Reversals around here lately.
6 in 75 is a good number for me; you'll get one eventually. Sudden
Reversals, (shrug); not much you can do. For a local playgroup, you
need to convince them that including 4 Sudden Reversals is generally a
weaker strategy than including 4 positive Masters.
>> Also note that Staredown becomes a very strong card in this deck, as
>> opposed to Immortal Grapple. The Gangrel and Tzimisce both have the
>> ability to intercept your +1 stealth vote and poke your eye out; since
>> all your voters (except poor Richter) have superior PRE, you can drop
>> the Torn Signpost, dodge the aggravated strike, and Blur for some free
>> damage. Or you can S:CE against an opponent who just spat out
>> Trap/Carrion Crows/Blood of Acid. Not worth putting TOO many in, of
>> course, but something to consider as well.
>
>Majesty might be better than Staredown in this case. Bleed for two with
>Sela. If blocked, play Majesty... untap, then play a Parity Shift. But
>still, it seems other clans are so much better at this sort of shit than the
>!Bru(tes).
Well, aside from the fact that you can't Parity Shift with !Brujah,...
playing Majesty at superior all the time drains your Minion Tapped
guys of blood very rapidly. Also, you risk Mr. Happy Bounce just
passing on your bleeds and not letting you untap to call the vote that
you need to Voter Cap to reload your blood. =)
Right now, I'd be a LOT more worried about the Tzimisce and the
preponderance of even-casual intercept that's floating around. With
Majesty, they just intercept the vote action as well and you'll
eventually run out, whereupon you'll get poked in the eye. With
Staredown, you can get hopefully get rid of the interceptors and be
free to actually call those votes.
>I don't know about Trap with Blood of Acid. At superior, when you take the
>aggravated damage in the first round you'll be unlikely to go to the second
>round. Trap becomes redundant... doesn't it? And at inferior, the opponent
>is likely to lose more blood than you anyway. Of course, if someone played a
>Trap while they were playing my !Brujah deck I'd probably thank them for it
You end up with Trap/Blood of Acid because of BoA's timing.
Before range, you play Trap/Carrion Crows/Song of Serenity. Your
intended victim plays a Torn Signpost and Fists of Death, and things
look somewhat ill for you in the future. NOW is the first opportunity
you have to play Blood of Acid, though, due to its card text.
I couldn't see making a Trap/BoA deck on purpose either, no.
-- Derek
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- C. Darwin, 1871
Dorrie Bly
I´m only playing Jyhad again after a long period of inactivity, so please
bear with me.
First Question: My 'Fame' from V:TES says that the controller´s _prey_ burns
3 pool if the vampire goes to torpor; the new 'fame' from SW says that the
_controller_ of the famous vampire burns 3 blood. Which is it?
Second Question: Can I use Life Boon to save my predator, give him all my
remaining pool, and thereby oust myself AND gain the victory point? (I
recently did this, by the way. Not a bad idea either, since my predator had
a previous Life Boon on him. I figured giving him all my pool and ousting
myself sets him up nicely to gather the other vp he owed me!)
Third Question: Wolf Claws can be used _after_ strikes have been chosen, but
_before_ they are resolved, (i.e., you can pull out the claws after the
opposing minion has already chosen his strike, when you know it will not be
a dodge or s:ce). True or false?
Fourth Question: Can Surprise Influence be played by an ally?
That's most of my difficulties for now. I´ll be sure to pipe up again as
others come up.
Thanks for the help!
Sigmund Bjornstein
LSJ
>
> Hiya:
>
> I惴 only playing Jyhad again after a long period of inactivity, so please
> bear with me.
>
> First Question: My 'Fame' from V:TES says that the controller愀 _prey_ burns
> 3 pool if the vampire goes to torpor; the new 'fame' from SW says that the
> _controller_ of the famous vampire burns 3 blood. Which is it?
The SW printing. See the official card texts online.
> Second Question: Can I use Life Boon to save my predator, give him all my
> remaining pool, and thereby oust myself AND gain the victory point? (I
> recently did this, by the way. Not a bad idea either, since my predator had
> a previous Life Boon on him. I figured giving him all my pool and ousting
> myself sets him up nicely to gather the other vp he owed me!)
No. You must be around to collect the VP. If you're already ousted, then
the Life Boon (which you control) is burned, and therefore the Life Boon's
effect is nil.
> Third Question: Wolf Claws can be used _after_ strikes have been chosen, but
> _before_ they are resolved, (i.e., you can pull out the claws after the
> opposing minion has already chosen his strike, when you know it will not be
> a dodge or s:ce). True or false?
True.
> Fourth Question: Can Surprise Influence be played by an ally?
No, by card text.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Xian
"Wes" <gh...@mnsi.net> wrote in message news:9948i...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> Shovel Party
> +1 Stealth (D) Action
> Only usable by a Sabbat vampire.
> Choose a vampire that is not Sabbat. That vampire is now considered a Sabbat
> vampire. This vampire loses access to any Camarilla cards but gains access
> to Sabbat cards. They are still considered to be the same clan.
Um. Even more horrifying than the old interpretation of Of Noble Blood. It
would be brutal unless it read something like: "Choose a vampire you control
which is not Sabbat."
Xian
Halcyan 2
>one. It's not a matter of personal preference except for one notable
>exception... Vlad Dracul. He was knowledgable about the clans while still a
>mortal ghoul and was able to CHOOSE the Tzimisce as his clan, though that
>story is way too complicated to get into here.
Vlad Dracul "choosing" to be Tzimisce? I'm not fully familiar with the story
(Tzimisce are not my specialty), but I thought it was pretty much that he
captured Lambach, coerced Lambach to embrace him, and then diablerized his
grandsire (Lambach's sire). I always got the interpretation he just happened to
come upon Tzimisce vampires (as opposed to choosing them).
Actually, there is one notable exception on changing clans -- the Baali. A
while ago I found some site with a bunch of info about them but I'm not sure
how much is actually canon (I've passed on buying the Baali Clanbook multiple
times. Not really interested in Black Dog stuff). I read that within the Baali
there are "true" Baali and "adopted" Baali. Apparently, Baali constantly try to
corrupt vampires from other clans to join them. Then they go through some
symbolic ritual thing to become Baali. Or some junk like that.
>The shared blood bonds that occur after the Vaulderie pretty much ensure
>that those who join the Sabbat STAY in the Sabbat.
Although the Vaulderie does create a strong bond, the bond does gradually fade.
I think I recall some vampire in Montreal by Night who was starting to grow
detached from his pack because he intentionally missed the past several
vaulderies.
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
Just going to add a few sidenotes of my own:
>Ahrimanes
>Disciplines: Animalism + Presence + [Spiritus]
Out of all the bloodlines, I think the Ahrimanes are going to have the hardest
time. With that sort of discipline selection, you'd be hard pressed to find a
reliable clan with which to get similar vampires.
>Baali
Although I like the idea of the Baali, some of the storyline ideas of them are
just way too lame. I'm especially annoyed by the story about how Troile (the
Brujah Ante) apparently has a Baali lover named Moloch and they're supposed to
be buried together under Carthage. SUCH a lame story!
>Blood Brothers
>----------------
>A modern experiment of the Tzimisce, this Sabbat bloodline is rare but
>feared by those who have had the misfortune of meeting them. They are
>mystically bonded to each other and are able to exchange limbs, take wounds
>meant for each other and combine to form monstrous composite creatures. A
>curious thing about the Blood Brothers is that they are crafted by the
>Tzimisce to look identical; usually they have the appearance of a gang of
>skinheads. This is an appropriate image as they are generally used by their
>masters as shock troops. Because of their unique connection to each other,
>they are vicious in combat, able to effectively work as a hive-mind.
As the Tremere Antitribu newsletter editor, I feel obligated to point out that
it wasn't solely the Tzimisce who took part in creating the Blood Brothers. The
!Tremere played an intricate role (much more than does silly Tzimisce!). Though
it still bewilders me why the !Brujah ended up with the Blood Brother-related
card. (I suppose they share the same temperaments).
>Often mistaken for Toreadors, members of this bloodline are known for their
>exquisite singing voices. They are easily distracted and often seem...
>distant. Though they have no allegiance to the Camarilla or the Sabbat, they
>tend to reside in Camarilla cities, probably because it is safer for them.
>Strangely, this bloodline appeared out of nowhere in the 1700s. Though they
>do seem to share the stage with the Toreador, those who have been victims of
>the madness induced by their singing claim that they may be a bloodline of
>the Malkavian clan. The Sirens are cursed with constant maddening music in
>their minds distracting them from anything but the songs in their heads.
Besides the rumor of being a bloodline from the Malkavians, there's also a
theory that they stem from some sort of connection between the Toreador and the
Sidhe. Libellous Sanguinous II (a Dark Ages clanbook) has a sidebar in the
Toreador section about some Toreador lady who was given music lessons by a
Sidhe. Also note that while there used to be male "Daughters," recently the DoC
had a culling where just about all the males were killed. Note that there are
still at least two transvestites who survived though...(meaning Dancin' Dana
will finally get some company!)
>Gargoyles
>----------
>Originally a cruel experiment of the nascent Tremere clan,
Cruel? Come on! The gargoyles were much better off under the wise hand of the
Tremere. Freedom and Independence? Bah! Hopefully the Gargoyles will one day
realize their folly and return to the fold...
>In the Dark Ages, the Tremere
>captured hostile Nosferatu and Gangrel
Besides Nosferatu and Gangrel blood, some Tzimisce stock was also intermingled.
And note that it was the illustrious Goratrix (of the great clan !Tremere) who
actually developed this. And while it sounds cruel, the Tremere, being
unrightfully attacked by all sides by various other clans only did this as a
last resort.
Speaking of Gargoyles, I'll eventually get around to featuring them in the
Tremere Antitribu Newsletter. And if anyone can actually find a good use for
Gargoyle Slaves (besides for an easy self-oust), I'd love to hear them!
>Kiasyd
>-------
>This strange bloodline is derived from the Lasombra and seem to share some
>connection with the Fae. These recluses are known for their enigmatic beauty
>and are respected for their vast arcane knowledge. The Weirdlings are almost
>exclusively members of the Sabbat but like the other Sabbat bloodlines they
>rarely participate in sect rites. Possibly because of their fae heritage,
>Kiasyd have very strange features. Often standing over seven feet tall, with
>a blue sheen to their skin and deep black eyes, they rarely pass for human.
>
>Disciplines: Obtenebration + Dominate + [Mytherceria]
>
>(Note: Formerly Necromancy was a clan discipline)
(Kiasyd REALLY annoy me!). Though I have to admit that 3rd Edition Kiasyd is
much better than 2nd. The 2nd Edition Kiasyd (OBT NEC MYT) was so unbelievably
twinkish! And 2nd Edition Mytherceria was also insanely broken.
>Nagaraja
>Disciplines: Auspex + Dominate + Necromancy
Now here's something I look forward to! With Auspex and Dominate, the Nagaraja
look ripe to make !Tremere/Giovanni ally decks even more viable!
>Almost extinct, this bloodline has fallen from grace. They were one of the
>original thirteen clans but when their founder Saulot was diablerized by the
>mage known as Tremere, they were hunted almost to extinction. Tremere
>propaganda ensures that these gentle healers are universally regarded as
>evil incarnate.
Those Salubri got what they deserved! Such is the price of defying the Tremere
and consorting with demons!!!
>Salubri are unique in
>that they possess a third eye, in the centre of their forehead which glows
>when they use their signature discipline.
While just about every Salubri has a third eye, not all Salubri do. It doesn't
develop till around the 2nd level of Obeah/Valeren is learned.
>Harbingers of Skulls
>Samedi
Ewwwwwww! Need I say more?
>They are actually descendants of a
>vampire named Troile who diablerized the founder, his/her sire.
While this is the most common theory, the new Brujah Clanbook suggests that
Brujah and Troile might have been the same vampire from the beginning...
>(Note: this discipline has been completely altered from its original
>twink-ridden form. IMHO it's still 'broken' in the RPG but could make for
>some interesting cards/abilities in V:tES)
Yep. 3rd Edition has done a good job changing Temporis. Temporis is a
particularly interesting discipline in that it's supposed to be the
"predecessor" for Celerity. The Trujah and the Brujah make fascinating
specimens in the study on the evolution of disciplines. Temporis tends to be
much more focused than the diversity of Celerity and it is supposed to be
impossible to know both (which may make things interesting if Temporis becomes
a discipline). It's something like: if you know Celerity but what to learn
Temporis, you lose all your Celerity to gain equivalent levels of Temporis.
Something like that.
Halcyan 2
Wes
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote
> Vlad Dracul "choosing" to be Tzimisce? I'm not fully familiar with the
story
> (Tzimisce are not my specialty), but I thought it was pretty much that he
> captured Lambach, coerced Lambach to embrace him, and then diablerized his
> grandsire (Lambach's sire). I always got the interpretation he just
happened to
> come upon Tzimisce vampires (as opposed to choosing them).
We're both correct. He captured Lambach because he was the desired clan... I
think. It's been a while. I'll see what I can dig up.
> Actually, there is one notable exception on changing clans -- the Baali. A
> while ago I found some site with a bunch of info about them but I'm not
sure
> how much is actually canon (I've passed on buying the Baali Clanbook
multiple
> times. Not really interested in Black Dog stuff). I read that within the
Baali
> there are "true" Baali and "adopted" Baali. Apparently, Baali constantly
try to
> corrupt vampires from other clans to join them. Then they go through some
> symbolic ritual thing to become Baali. Or some junk like that.
Adopting is not the same though. A Caitiff can be adopted into a clan... but
that does not make them a member of the 'bloodline (well unless their sire
adopted them I guess). Though I think you might be right about some kind of
thing with the Baali. I do have that clanbook somewhere... I'll see what I
can find.
> >The shared blood bonds that occur after the Vaulderie pretty much ensure
> >that those who join the Sabbat STAY in the Sabbat.
>
> Although the Vaulderie does create a strong bond, the bond does gradually
fade.
> I think I recall some vampire in Montreal by Night who was starting to
grow
> detached from his pack because he intentionally missed the past several
> vaulderies.
It doesn't fade. It lasts forever, unlike the Blood Bond. Or so the Guide to
the Sabbat states which came out after Montreal By Night. Unfortunately, a
lot of White Wolf material contradicts itself and frankly as far as the RPG
goes, who cares? If you want it to be one way, White Wolf isn't going to
impose their way. If you want to say that the Sabbat don't even exist in
your game, who's to stop you?
I'll see what I can find out regarding the Baali and Dracula though.
Cheers,
WES
Wes
"Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote
> Um. Even more horrifying than the old interpretation of Of Noble Blood.
It
> would be brutal unless it read something like: "Choose a vampire you
control
> which is not Sabbat."
Nah... it'd be fun. Maybe knock off the stealth if you like. Roving packs of
Sabbat ruffians aren't exactly known for their 'silent mode'.
evilp...@yahoo.com
>Thanatosis
>-----------
>This discipline is NASTY. The Samedi use their control of putrefaction and
>decay to terrorize and immobilize their opponents. Limbs can be made useless
>(Disarm?) or victims can simply be 'rotted' away at the vampire's touch.
>Combat cards are the most obvious application here... I would think similar
>to Vicissitude's cards like Bonecrarft or Fleshcraft but a lot more
>dangerous. This discipline also gives the vampire the ability to become a
>pile of ashes... Strike: Combat Ends would be the obvious analog for this.
Hehe, would it be like Mummify, only a little more understandable, since it's hard to
rescue yourself when you're granular? This would require the creation of Shop-Vac as a
non-unique equipment card. ; - )
Xian
"Wes" <gh...@mnsi.net> wrote in message news:996mt...@enews2.newsguy.com...
[shovel gang something or other]
> Nah... it'd be fun. Maybe knock off the stealth if you like. Roving packs of
> Sabbat ruffians aren't exactly known for their 'silent mode'.
Oh, it'd be fun, but it'd be unnecessarily cruel to the all-Inner Circle decks
with only Majesty for combat defense. I'd put a bunch in my Pot-Obf deck.
Xian
Wes
"Xian" <xi...@waste.org>
> Oh, it'd be fun, but it'd be unnecessarily cruel to the all-Inner Circle
decks
> with only Majesty for combat defense. I'd put a bunch in my Pot-Obf deck.
Pretty pointless discussing a card that doesnt exist heh... but consider
this:
One problem with playing Sabbat has always been that the Camarilla seems to
have access to better cards (specifically I'm thinking Traditions for pool
gain). Rather than give the Sabbat those cards, DENY the Camarilla their use
of them as well. If I can't have it nobody can.
Hmmm... that would be cruel. I like it. White Wolf, consider it a freebie
heh.
Cheers,
WES
Sorrow
my
> > remaining pool, and thereby oust myself AND gain the victory point? (I
> > recently did this, by the way. Not a bad idea either, since my predator
had
> > a previous Life Boon on him. I figured giving him all my pool and
ousting
> > myself sets him up nicely to gather the other vp he owed me!)
> No. You must be around to collect the VP. If you're already ousted, then
> the Life Boon (which you control) is burned, and therefore the Life Boon's
> effect is nil.
I'm a little curious how many different options on how to change this card
were considered. While I would be interested in hearing what the options
were, I know that's probably not going to happen and so would just like to
hear if more than just the above was considered.
While the LifeBoon-SelfOust was obviously considered a problem (it was
errata'd after all; I never thought it was an issue), I kind of think this
change
went a little too far. You are already sacrificing a bit of yourself and
your
position in playing this card. If something unforseen comes up and you get
ousted prematurely, you get nothing for that sacrifice. Personally, I think
there is something intrinsically unfair about that, but evidently this was
the
fairest solution to the "percieved" problem. Bearing that in mind, how many
other solutions where put on the table before this one was finally selected?
Is that something you can even tell us?
Sorrow
---
no hate no wars no ignorance no politics no pain no force
no weapons no oppression no sorrow no chemicals no dust
no leaders no violence no dust no leaders no leaders
now it's time for the world to see a man with open eyes
now it's time to realize we tell ourselves the best of lies
LSJ
Well, the card is still at the top end of the power spectrum, so the change
is not considered to have "gone too far".
Sorrow
this
> > change went a little too far. You are already sacrificing a bit of
yourself
> > and your position in playing this card. If something unforseen comes up
> > and you get ousted prematurely, you get nothing for that sacrifice.
> > Personally, I think there is something intrinsically unfair about that,
but
> > evidently this was the fairest solution to the "percieved" problem.
Bearing
> > that in mind, how many other solutions where put on the table before
this
> > one was finally selected?
> > Is that something you can even tell us?
> Well, the card is still at the top end of the power spectrum, so the
change
> is not considered to have "gone too far".
How is it still?
You save a meth from being ousted with just a few pool. If they are ousted
again, you gain nothing and lost that pool. So you have to give enough to
where you can gain something out of it and not put yourself at risk of being
ousted (because, after all, if you are out of the game you no longer get
anything from it). So with it being much more of a balancing act, I don't
see how it is still on the top end of the power spectrum. Is it because you
gain the VP instead?
Sorrow
---
"Are they dead?" - Pugsly
"Does it matter?" - Wednesday
Roger Carhult
--
"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote in message
news:tbnnm0d...@corp.supernews.com...
Yes it's because of the VP and that it was abused in tournaments. It's
stilla good card, why? Because if someone for example uses a minion tap deck
but gets ousted after bringing out a high cap vamp, you can play life boon.
He then minion taps and you can take back one pool from him every turn and
he has plenty of them. That's just one example. Another is when you get
bled, you deflect to prey and he's ousted, but you play Life Boon because he
has a S&B deck (which you don't) and can get out ur grandprey much easier.
You let him do that and collect the VP and you try to time it so he only has
one pool (you draw out his pool through LB if he gain any) and then he gets
another 6 for the ousting. So he has 7 pool but you got the VP and you might
be able to oust him now still. A 3rd example could be when you want your
rpedator to stay alive, becuase he mostly blocks your grandpredator who
plays a deck you definately don't want agaisnt you. Then your predator can
continue to act like a wall for you. Giving out pool for life boon may sound
like a bad deal, but if you play a bloat deck then you have plenty. Give
some away, and then play parity shift on your prey :)