another other card-based approach to the contesting issue
Malone
Master Out-of-Turn. Trifle.
Play when another methuselah contests a ready vampire you control.
Move up to six blood from that vampire to your pool or to a card in
your uncontrolled region and remove that vampire from the game instead
of contesting.
Play during your discard phase to remove a card in your uncontrolled
region from the game after moving up to eight counters from that card
to another card in your uncontrolled region.
Play when your prey gains one or more pool during his or her untap
phase to gain one pool.
Play when your a minion controlled by your predator untaps during his
or her minion phase to untap a minion you control.
The Lasombra
>Mulligan Stew
>Master Out-of-Turn. Trifle.
Are you familiar with 7 line syndrome?
If you have too much text on a card, it never gets read, and thus, it
never gets played.
You are trying to do way, way, way, to much with this card.
librarian
Pick 2 or 3 effects. And then boil them down to their essence.
best -
chris
Malone
> On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:29:49 -0700 (PDT), Malone wrote:
> >Mulligan Stew
> >Master Out-of-Turn. Trifle.
>
> Are you familiar with 7 line syndrome?
>
If a card is to 'solve' the contesting problem (functions 1 and 2)
something has to reduce the opportunity cost for the 99% of the time
that contesting is irrelevant (functions 3 and 4). I'm not in love
with this particular card, but I very very much hope that if something
is to be done about the putative contesting problem, the solution is
card based rather than a rules change.
>
> You are trying to do way, way, way, to much with this card.
I'm actually trying to do very little with it -- have it playable in
the event of another methuselah controling a vampire you have invested
pool and transfers in, and also have it playable the other 99% of
games.
> If you have too much text on a card, it never gets read, and thus, it
> never gets played.
Sure, if there's 'too much' text on a card idea on a newsgroup
posting, people may very well not bother to read it. But in the
hypothetical situation where this is a real card, people are going to
read it and know what it does. It's not at all complicated. Have you
really ever gotten your first look at a vtes card and said to
yourself, I'm not going to bother to read that?
Peter D Bakija
I think in an abstract sense, a card like this would be both playable
and would help contestation problems reasonably well. I also think
that, as Jeff pointed out, a card with this many words (even if it
were worded to do the same stuff with as few words as possible) is not
actually printable. Unless you made it like a NoR rules card with no
pictures (or forming the ISA! Anyone? Anyone?). Which would certainly
make at least some folks cranky.
-Peter
Kevin M.
> The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Malone wrote:
>>> Mulligan Stew
>>> Master Out-of-Turn. Trifle.
>>
>> Are you familiar with 7 line syndrome?
>
> If a card is to 'solve' the contesting problem (functions 1 and 2)
Although I applaud your efforts, any of the fixes brought up in
the last month WITHOUT removing transfer-back would work
better than this monster of a card.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
Juggernaut1981
I was waiting for an effect which said something like "And then your
predator dances a jig". Seems like it is trying to be all things to
all people at all phases of the game. Consequently it will either
NEVER be used, or be used so heavily that nobody owns more than 2 and
those are ALWAYS in decks.
The simplest and ironically MOST effective change would be a rules
change, I agree that the transfer-back rule should continue to exist,
the rules just need something else included.
LSJ
> Which would certainly
> make at least some folks cranky.
Thing X would certainly make some folks cranky, for any given X.
Peter D Bakija
> Thing X would certainly make some folks cranky, for any given X.
Well, yes. But in this particular instance, that was an oblique comedy
reference to a not that long ago discussion between me and a
contributer to remain nameless about how he felt that cards with no
art on them (example: NoR Rules Card Proxy cards) were an absolute
abomination that would lead to the death of the game. Just 'cause I
thought it was funny :-)
-Peter
Juggernaut1981
To more simply restructure your card:
Competing Priorities
Master
1 pool
You may not have more than one Competing Priorities in play. Put this
card in play.
You may tap this card to move 6 blood from a contested vampire, or
from a vampire in your uncontrolled region that could be contested, to
your pool and remove the vampire from play.
When a vampire controlled by your predator or prey untaps during their
minion phase, you may tap this card to untap a ready vampire you
control.
bwross
> > You are trying to do way, way, way, to much with this card.
>
> I'm actually trying to do very little with it -- have it playable in
> the event of another methuselah controling a vampire you have invested
> pool and transfers in, and also have it playable the other 99% of
> games.
You're going two "play when"s past that goal... so you are doing too
much. The ideal cornercase card should require only one non-
cornercase cycling option to make it playable (or else its effect
better be huge, otherwise it's going to be wallpaper), not three.
Brent Ross
bwross
> But in this particular instance, that was an oblique comedy
> reference to a not that long ago discussion between me and a
> contributer to remain nameless about how he felt that cards with no
> art on them (example: NoR Rules Card Proxy cards) were an absolute
> abomination that would lead to the death of the game.
Well, they are pretty ugly, but I wouldn't have gone that far...
nothing wrong with adding a little utility to rule cards.
On the other side, I would love some VTES textless foils.
Brent Ross
Malone
Your hypothetical card is better than my hypothetical card is most
every way, except for one way that I think would make *all* the
difference. For such a hypothetical card to be usable as a fix for
the contesting problem, a player choosing to use it would need to use
enough to expect to have one in hand by the third turn or so. With a
free, out-of-turn trifle that might be doable; with a regular master
costing a pool and of which you can only play one, I think it would
not be.
Daneel
<pd...@lightlink.com> wrote:
Whoever that poster was, I agree with him or her - cards with no art
are cheap, distasteful and it's only thanks to the aesthetic sense
of the majority of players that we don't see the NoR rulescards
with any frequency. That, and the fact that most sane players find
NoR to be a hiccup in the history of V:tES and generally only play
1 card from the set.
It's a pity that I must've missed that original discussion, I can go
on and on about these things... :)
--
Regards,
Daneel
Janne Hägglund
> That, and the fact that most sane players find
> NoR to be a hiccup in the history of V:tES and generally only play
> 1 card from the set.
Ha! I see your implied "if you like the Imbued, you're insane" and raise:
"Some players hate the Imbued - just like the Nazis hated Jews."
So there, NYAHH, NYAHH, NYAHH!
HG
Peter D Bakija
> It's a pity that I must've missed that original discussion, I can go
> on and on about these things... :)
A+ for comedy :-)
-Peter