(LSJ) Trophy: Chosen
Blooded Sand
I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen
from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes
Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also
become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as
she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample)
In other words, do they stack?
LSJ
Yes, all cards stack by default.
Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in
sequence.
Blooded Sand
Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The
vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and
Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap
after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap
again as a result of the 2nd T:C?
Salem
I'd guess "no".
You're in the middle of the "award trophies" effect. But because you
can't move cards simultaneously, you have to order the two trophies
sequentially. But both card movements are still within the one "award
trophies" effect, which you can't insert another effect into the middle of.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
Blooded Sand
I would normally guess "No" too. Except for the fact that here LSJ has
explicitly stated that they application of the trophy occurs
sequentially. Normally I would see a single effect here, occur in
order, but this leads me to believe that it is possible for there to
be a moment in between T:C1 and T:C2 which allows the3 activation of
effects
LSJ
Sure.
Jeff Kuta
Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted
by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within.
Jeff
6.5.5. Diablerie
Diablerie is the act of sending another vampire to Final Death by
drinking his blood. Only ready vampires can commit diablerie. Vampires
marked as Blood Cursed cannot commit diablerie. The vampire committing
diablerie is called the diablerist. Diablerie is resolved as follows:
1. All blood on the victim is moved to the diablerist. Blood in
excess of his capacity drains off as normal.
2. The diablerist may take any equipment on the victim.
3. The victim is burned (sent to his owner's ash heap). Any cards
and counters on him are also burned.
4. If the victim was older (had a higher capacity) than the
diablerist, the diablerist can be given a Discipline. His controller
may go through her library, ash heap and hand to get a master
Discipline card to put on the diablerist and then reshuffle her
library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. This increases
the diablerist's capacity by 1, but does not automatically give the
diablerist a blood to fill that new capacity.
5. If the victim was Red List, the diablerist may receive trophies
(see section 11).
The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be
used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before
or after, as appropriate. After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called
on the diablerist.
Salem
> On Apr 30, 3:47 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Blooded Sand wrote:
>> > On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> >> Blooded Sand wrote:
>> >>> Malgorzata burns a red list vamp
>> >>> I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen
>> >>> from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes
>> >>> Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also
>> >>> become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as
>> >>> she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample)
>> >>> In other words, do they stack?
>> >> Yes, all cards stack by default.
>>
>> >> Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in
>> >> sequence.
>>
>> > Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The
>> > vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and
>> > Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap
>> > after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap
>> > again as a result of the 2nd T:C?
>>
>> Sure.
>
> Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted
> by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within.
Maybe Malgorzata burned a red list vamp in combat without using
diablerie in this hypothetical situation?
I still don't like interrupting the "gain trophies" effect, though. It
seems to be allowing you to gain a trophy, tap the barrens for a new
card, gain another trophy. Feels like the whole "can i tap the barrens
to find a sudden reversal when someone plays a master?" question, which
I can't actually remember the final the answer to, but would hope the
answer was "no". :)
ira...@gmail.com
This answer is no. In fact, you don't even redraw before a Sudden/DI
occurs.
Ira
LSJ
> On Apr 30, 3:47 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Blooded Sand wrote:
>>> On Apr 27, 2:04 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>>> Blooded Sand wrote:
>>>>> Malgorzata burns a red list vamp
>>>>> I have T:Chosen in play, and using the trophy rule, I fetch a T:Chosen
>>>>> from my library. Both are placed on Malgie, Malgorzata untaps, becomes
>>>>> Black hand and gains 4 blood. Due to the Second T:C, does she now also
>>>>> become Seraph, and gain another 4 blood? (As well as untapping, but as
>>>>> she is already untapped, this my be ignored for the xample)
>>>>> In other words, do they stack?
>>>> Yes, all cards stack by default.
>>>> Also interesting to this question is: yes, the trophies are awarded/applied in
>>>> sequence.
>>> Does this mean that if there is a card called Untappy with text "The
>>> vampire with this card may tap to untap a younger vampire", and
>>> Malgorzata in the example above has this card, that she can then tap
>>> after the effect of the first T:C to untap Smudge, and then untap
>>> again as a result of the 2nd T:C?
>> Sure.
>
> Really? I thought diablerie was "atomic" and couldn't be interrupted
> by effects. The Red List/Trophy mechanic is covered within.
Ah, right.
REVERSAL: The answer to the hypothetical situation above is: "no" (because
diablerie is atomic).
Salem
what if they were burned with a Decapitate instead of diablerie?
LSJ
Oh, right. The example didn't specify diablerie. Sure, that works (so the
reversal isn't so much a reversal as a clarification about a special case).
tigernat1
>
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So as a result of this, in the original example, Malgorzata receives
both trophies at the same time and then resolves them in any order
chosen by Malgorzata's Methuselah?
Vegas gNat
LSJ
If "same time" means "as part of diablerie" (therefore assuming diablerie into
the original example), then yes. She technically receives them in sequence.