[LSJ] Obedience, etc.

[wumpus]

Howdy,

I've asked about this once before; I wonder if I could get an official
ruling?

At some point the text of Obedience changed. I don't have the old
text in front of me, but I believe it used to say that it 'cancelled'
the combat or ended the action without combat (like Voice of Madness,
Hard Case, and Mental Maze). I thus had it in my one (silly) deck
that was designed to attempt to withdraw, as entering combat will
prevent withdrawal.

Here's the current text (from the online card lists):

Obedience [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PV, CE:U, Third:U]
Cardtype: Reaction
Discipline: Dominate

Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with
an acting younger vampire.
[dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and
end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt
the same action this turn.
[DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire.

The text seems to imply that combat actually occurs, though Obedience
ends it. Which would void withdrawal. It also makes for strange
timing, as Obedience is then a reaction that is played in combat.
(Sort of, as combat was about to begin before play, and ends after
play.) Can you Psyche! a play of Obedience? (Presumably not, as
Obedience explicitly ends the action - it isn't ending as a
consequence of combat ending, which is the usual circumstance for
Psyche!)

Anyway, here's text for the other combat ending reactions I can think
of:

Voice of Madness [SW:U, CE:U, Third:PM]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dementation

Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger
vampire.
[dem] Tap this reacting vampire. Combat does not occur.
[DEM] As above, and the acting minion burns 1 blood or life.

Hard Case [LotN:R]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Fortitude

Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger
vampire.
[for] Cancel the resulting combat.
[FOR] As above, and destroy a weapon or vehicle on the acting minion.

Mental Maze [LotN:C/PS2]
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Obfuscate

Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or a younger
vampire (play before combat, if any).
[obf] End the action (with no combat). If this blocking minion is a
Follower of Set, this card costs 1 less blood.
[OBF] As above, and do not tap this blocking vampire.

Does Obedience have functionally the same timing and effect as these
other cards?

Thanks,
Alex

[LSJ]

wumpus wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I've asked about this once before; I wonder if I could get an official
> ruling?
>
> At some point the text of Obedience changed. I don't have the old
> text in front of me, but I believe it used to say that it 'cancelled'
> the combat or ended the action without combat (like Voice of Madness,
> Hard Case, and Mental Maze). I thus had it in my one (silly) deck
> that was designed to attempt to withdraw, as entering combat will
> prevent withdrawal.

History of Obedience:

1994 Jyhad printing: Untaps the reacting vampire.
19960708 Doesn't tap the reacting vampire, rather than actively untapping him.
19961001 Sabbat printing: Doesn't cancel combat. Leaves the reacting vampire
tapped if he successfully blocked.
19991206 Cancels combat. Says that the reacting vampire is not tapped.
20001031 SW: Cancels combat. Says that the reacting vampire is not tapped.

> Here's the current text (from the online card lists):
>
> Obedience [Jyhad:U, VTES:U, Sabbat:U, SW:PV, CE:U, Third:U]
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Discipline: Dominate
>
> Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with
> an acting younger vampire.
> [dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and
> end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt
> the same action this turn.
> [DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire.
>
> The text seems to imply that combat actually occurs, though Obedience
> ends it.

Perhaps, but combat does not occur. Obedience is played before combat (it is not
a combat card), and ends the combat before it starts (another way of saying: the
combat is canceled).

If played by a blocking vampire, yes.

Obedience can also be played without a block (say, when a Bum's Rush is
successful), unlike the other examples you give.

[wumpus]

Howdy,

> > Does Obedience have functionally the same timing and effect as these
> > other cards?
>
> If played by a blocking vampire, yes.
>
> Obedience can also be played without a block (say, when a Bum's Rush is
> successful), unlike the other examples you give.

Ah, subtle.

Thanks!,
Alex

[Matthew T. Morgan]

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, LSJ wrote:

> History of Obedience:

>
> 19961001 Sabbat printing: Doesn't cancel combat. Leaves the reacting vampire
> tapped if he successfully blocked.

Er...so it didn't do anything at all?

Matt Morgan

[James Coupe]

In message <2008032816...@eris.io.com>, Matthew T. Morgan

From the Wizards card text file I have to hand:

Card Title: Obedience
Blood/Pool: n/a
Clan/Discip.: Dominate
Card Type: Reaction
Card Text: Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to
enter combat with an acting younger vampire. Untap
the acting vampire. The acting vampire is blocked, and
he or she cannot attempt the same action again this
turn.
(S) As above, but do not untap the acting vampire.
Artist: L. A. Williams
Rarity: Uncommon

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
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