Q: Bewitching Bernard?
wumpus
Bernard, the Scourge, 5, ani for pre pro, Gangrel, 4, [KoT]
Camarilla: Bernard can call a Blood Hunt on a vampire with capacity 4
or less as +1 stealth political action.
As I understand it, 'call a Blood Hunt' means 'burn'; that is, after
diablerie, a referendum is automatically conducted to see if a Blood
Hunt will be called on the diablerist, if the vote passes, the Blood
Hunt is indeed called and the vampire burned.
Normally one cannot play action modifiers or reactions during that
referendum, as it is not an action. However, Bernard is explicitly
performing a political action, so presumably he can play Bewitching
Oration, Voter Captivation, etc., and other Methuselah's vampires can
use Delaying Tactics, etc?
Thanks,
Alex
Blooded Sand
If the Political Action Bernard is taking is not blocked, then he
should be able to play all Action modifiers that state "during a
political action." Remember that the reason VC, BO, et al cannot
normally be played during a post-diablerie Blood Hunt is because there
is no political action.
LSJ
> On Dec 2, 9:00 am, wumpus <wump...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Bernard, the Scourge, 5, ani for pre pro, Gangrel, 4, [KoT]
>> Camarilla: Bernard can call a Blood Hunt on a vampire with capacity 4
>> or less as +1 stealth political action.
>>
>> As I understand it, 'call a Blood Hunt' means 'burn'; that is, after
>> diablerie, a referendum is automatically conducted to see if a Blood
>> Hunt will be called on the diablerist, if the vote passes, the Blood
>> Hunt is indeed called and the vampire burned.
Correct.
>> Normally one cannot play action modifiers or reactions during that
>> referendum, as it is not an action. However, Bernard is explicitly
>> performing a political action, so presumably he can play Bewitching
>> Oration, Voter Captivation, etc., and other Methuselah's vampires can
>> use Delaying Tactics, etc?
>>
> If the Political Action Bernard is taking is not blocked, then he
> should be able to play all Action modifiers that state "during a
> political action."
Correct. Same with Veles' Hunt.
> Remember that the reason VC, BO, et al cannot
> normally be played during a post-diablerie Blood Hunt is because there
> is no political action.
Well, the rules suffice, whatever the reason they're written the way they are,
sure. The automatic BH is handled independently of the action. If you play
Amaranth during a blocked political action, you still can't play VC, BO, etc.
Blooded Sand
> Blooded Sand wrote:
> > Remember that the reason VC, BO, et al cannot
> > normally be played during a post-diablerie Blood Hunt is because there
> > is no political action.
>
> Well, the rules suffice, whatever the reason they're written the way they are,
> sure. The automatic BH is handled independently of the action. If you play
> Amaranth during a blocked political action, you still can't play VC, BO, etc.
Amaranth being played during a blocked political action would thus
mean a post diablerie BH, would it not?
LSJ
Yes. And thus a BH referendum during a political action.
In contrast to the rule-of-thumb you gave (mods not being playable because there
is no political action).
Blooded Sand
I did say normally though. So ;p
;)
LSJ
Um, yes. You said they cannot normally be played during the post-D BH.
Indeed, they cannot ever be played during the post-D BH.
Then you said that this was "because" of some reason. The reason you gave was
there being no political action.
But that's not the reason. The cards in question cannot be played during a
post-D BH referendum even if there is a political action (as in the PA, block,
Amaranth example).
The reason the cards cannot be played is that the post-D BH referendum is
conducted independently of the action, no matter what the action is.
Blooded Sand
But the moment the action is blocked, there is no more political
action?
LSJ
> But the moment the action is blocked, there is no more political
> action?
No. The political action still exists.
The resulting combat is the resolution of that action. [6.2.3]
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_2_3
John P.
> Howdy,
>
> Bernard, the Scourge, 5, ani for pre pro, Gangrel, 4, [KoT]
> Camarilla: Bernard can call a Blood Hunt on a vampire with capacity 4
> or less as +1 stealth political action.
>
> As I understand it, 'call a Blood Hunt' means 'burn'; that is, after
> diablerie, a referendum is automatically conducted to see if a Blood
> Hunt will be called on the diablerist, if the vote passes, the Blood
> Hunt is indeed called and the vampire burned.
You're ahead of me here: I'm still trying to figure out what he can
do much less if he can play action modifiers and such.
More simply
Vampire A commits diablerie. Bloodhunt referendum automatically
ensues.
Is Bernard's special somehow allowing him to call another bloodhunt
on the same vampire at some future point or is Bernard's special
simply the ability to call a vote to burn a (4 cap or less) vampire
as if they had committed diablerie?
John P.
Winnipeg
Blooded Sand
The latter.
LSJ
Well, assuming that blood hunts can be called on the little guy at all.
It is a specific type of burn (a blood hunt) referendum, not a general burn
referendum. So certain immunities and extra votes come to bear.
Jeff Kuta
So, imagine a hypothetical Camarilla-only action modifier "Camarilla
Session" which when played during a referendum before votes are cast
said "Non-Camarilla vampires cannot vote on the current
referendum." (similar to Closed Session, but with a sect restriction,
not title restriction)
Then, if Maxwell successfully takes his "become Prince of Chicago"
political action, could he play Camarilla Session since becoming a
Prince automatically requires him to be Camarilla? Maxwell's (and
Horatio's) specials are also specific types of referendums so I am
trying to imagine another example.
Jeff
librarian
In other words, Bernard cannot use his special to burn non-merged Tariq.
best -
chris
LSJ
I have no idea what you're aiming for here.
If Maxwell is Camarilla, then he can play a card that requires Camarilla, sure.
If he's not Camarilla, he can't. (But then again, if he weren't Camarilla, he
couldn't call his special ability referendum anyhow.)
Salem
Also Urban Jungle puts 2 votes against it, etc.
A question for LSJ here: will Gangrel Conspiracy can cancel the
referendum if it's targetting Sadie, or does the referendum have to
pass, and _then_ you cancel the burning effect, 'the blood hunt', with
Gangrel Conspiracy?
And then expanding that more generally to 'normal' post-diablerie blood
hunts, can you play Gangrel Conspiracy if the blood hunt referendum is
failing, or only if it passes?
Gangrel Conspiracy
Type: Master
Requires: Gangrel antitribu
Master: out-of-turn.
Cancel a blood hunt called on a Gangrel antitribu. You may play this
card during your turn.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
"In *my* Assamite deck, this would pwn you in teh FAEC, so shut up."
"Thats only cos u've never sene mi Gionavvi PUNCHnMUCNH u asshat."
- James Coupe
LSJ
> A question for LSJ here: will Gangrel Conspiracy can cancel the
> referendum if it's targetting Sadie, or does the referendum have to
> pass, and _then_ you cancel the burning effect, 'the blood hunt', with
> Gangrel Conspiracy?
The latter, same as with the standard blood hunt referendum.
> And then expanding that more generally to 'normal' post-diablerie blood
> hunts, can you play Gangrel Conspiracy if the blood hunt referendum is
> failing, or only if it passes?
The latter.
Chris Berger
>
> > And then expanding that more generally to 'normal' post-diablerie blood
> > hunts, can you play Gangrel Conspiracy if the blood hunt referendum is
> > failing, or only if it passes?
>
> The latter.
Wow, I had no idea. I always thought that the "Blood Hunt" was the
referendum, and if it passed, then the vampire was burned. I assume
that Rebirth, however, has to be played before the referendum, because
it's not played to cancel a blood hunt, it's played when the action is
successful and says that no blood hunt may be called, right?
LSJ
Correct.