Tegyrius, Vizier

Jozxyqk

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 11:40:37 AM6/15/01

to

Alright, here's another one :)

Tegyrius, Vizier
Assamite
Capacity: 9
QUI CEL FOR AUS pre
Camarilla: If Tegyrius is ready, any Assamite may take a +1 stealth action
to gain an allegiance counter. Any Assamite with an allegiance counter is
considered a Camarilla vampire. +1 strength. (Blood Cursed)

Can you gain more than one Allegiance Counter? Can you gain one if you are
already Camarilla?

If so, Tegyrius seems like a nice candidate for Force of Will, doesn't he?
Tap for the "Pledge of Allegiance", then bleed :)

Not as cool as Hotep, but they could definitely coexist in a FoW-monkey
deck :)

Jozxyqk

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 11:48:36 AM6/15/01

to

Replying to myself..
(sorry, reading the spoiler list and posting as I go)..

What takes precedence? Allegiance Counters, or
Derangement counters? That is, if Theron puts enough
Derangement counters on someone, they become Malk Anti,
but what if he has Allegiance Counters before that?
Is he a Cammie !Malk? Or does the Allegiance Counter
lose its effect?

Jack Crow

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 12:21:12 PM6/15/01

to

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:48:36 GMT, Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu>
wrote:

Cammie !Malk. Cammie is sect, !Malk is clan. There is no conflict.

Flux

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 12:28:55 PM6/15/01

to

"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:o7qW6.27055$_Y5.4...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...

Allegiance counters only have effect on Assamites (card text). So if an
Assamite with an Allegiance counter became a !Malk, he'd be Sabbat (by
default for !Malk vampires).

I have a related question, though. Will the allegiance counters lose its
effect if Tegyrius leaves play? Only he has the text that makes Assamites
with Allegiance counters Camarilla, if he leaves play those counters would
be meaningless, right?

Flux

Reyda

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 3:03:45 PM6/15/01

to

"Jack Crow" <no...@nowhere.com> a écrit dans le message news:
3b2a35c3....@news.flrtn1.occa.home.com...

Wait a second... It's a known fact that, when playing Derange on a Camarilla
Prince, he becomes !Derange and then cannot play anymore cards requiring
"Prince or Justicar". If it's not the case, we may say that derange is now
Wallpaper. what to you think LSJ ?

James Coupe

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 3:21:10 PM6/15/01

to

In message <3b2a3728$1...@212.18.160.197>, Flux <fl...@netc.pt> writes

>I have a related question, though. Will the allegiance counters lose its
>effect if Tegyrius leaves play? Only he has the text that makes Assamites
>with Allegiance counters Camarilla, if he leaves play those counters would
>be meaningless, right?

Correct - the only thing creating the sect status is his text.

However, the counters would still be there in case another copy of
Tegyrius comes into play - which affects any Allegiance counters, not
just the ones supplied by the current copy.

--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
"You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F
an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6
Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

James Coupe

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 4:02:35 PM6/15/01

to

In message <9gdlom$rt1$1...@hadron.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> writes

>Wait a second... It's a known fact that, when playing Derange on a Camarilla
>Prince, he becomes !Derange and then cannot play anymore cards requiring
>"Prince or Justicar". If it's not the case, we may say that derange is now
>Wallpaper. what to you think LSJ ?

If a vampire only changes their clan, their sect status changes with it
to the default.

If a vampire also has a sect changing effect on them, they change sect.

e.g. A Ravnos (Independent) clan impersonates to Lasombra (Sabbat). He
is now a Sabbat vampire who is treated as a Lasombra vampire. He then
equips with a Writ of Acceptance. He is now a Camarilla Lasombra.

Aaron

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 5:32:51 PM6/15/01

to

"Flux" <fl...@netc.pt> wrote in message news:<3b2a3728$1...@212.18.160.197>...

There is no requirment for a card to be in play, for a counter to be
effective, as far as I know.
Otherwise, how would Sabbat Threat work? It just puts a "threat
counter" into play, the card does not stay out. I guess you just have
to know(remember) what they all do?

James Coupe

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 6:10:08 PM6/15/01

to

In message <7ab27d37.01061...@posting.google.com>, Aaron
<roans...@yahoo.com> writes

>There is no requirment for a card to be in play, for a counter to be
>effective, as far as I know.

Sure.

But the only thing that defines what the counter does is the card text.

Jozxyqk

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 6:51:23 PM6/15/01

to

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <7ab27d37.01061...@posting.google.com>, Aaron
> <roans...@yahoo.com> writes
>>There is no requirment for a card to be in play, for a counter to be
>>effective, as far as I know.

> Sure.

> But the only thing that defines what the counter does is the card text.

Are you saying then, that if Theron leaves play, the vampires he has converted
to !Malk turn back to their previous clan?

James Coupe

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 6:58:31 PM6/15/01

to

In message <LjwW6.27089$_Y5.47...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, Jozxyqk
<jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> writes

>> But the only thing that defines what the counter does is the card text.
>
>Are you saying then, that if Theron leaves play, the vampires he has converted
>to !Malk turn back to their previous clan?

I'm saying that if the vampire with the text defining what an Allegiance
counter does leaves play, there is no text telling you what they do.

LSJ

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 7:37:41 PM6/15/01

to

?
Only Princes or Justicars can play cards requiring Princes or Justicars, yes.

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 7:39:09 PM6/15/01

to

Flux wrote:
> Allegiance counters only have effect on Assamites (card text). So if an
> Assamite with an Allegiance counter became a !Malk, he'd be Sabbat (by
> default for !Malk vampires).

Correct.

> I have a related question, though. Will the allegiance counters lose its
> effect if Tegyrius leaves play? Only he has the text that makes Assamites
> with Allegiance counters Camarilla, if he leaves play those counters would
> be meaningless, right?

No. See also disease counters from Vampiric Disease (which is never in play).

LSJ

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 7:40:07 PM6/15/01

to

Aaron wrote:
> There is no requirment for a card to be in play, for a counter to be
> effective, as far as I know.
> Otherwise, how would Sabbat Threat work? It just puts a "threat
> counter" into play, the card does not stay out. I guess you just have
> to know(remember) what they all do?

Correct.

LSJ

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 7:40:36 PM6/15/01

to

James Coupe wrote:
>
> In message <7ab27d37.01061...@posting.google.com>, Aaron
> <roans...@yahoo.com> writes
> >There is no requirment for a card to be in play, for a counter to be
> >effective, as far as I know.
>
> Sure.
>
> But the only thing that defines what the counter does is the card text.

Yes. And that definition still holds.

LSJ

unread,

Jun 15, 2001, 7:41:27 PM6/15/01

to

No.

Jack Crow

unread,

Jun 16, 2001, 3:31:04 AM6/16/01

to

On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 21:02:35 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk>
wrote:

>In message <9gdlom$rt1$1...@hadron.noos.net>, Reyda <re...@noos.fr> writes
>>Wait a second... It's a known fact that, when playing Derange on a Camarilla
>>Prince, he becomes !Derange and then cannot play anymore cards requiring
>>"Prince or Justicar". If it's not the case, we may say that derange is now
>>Wallpaper. what to you think LSJ ?
>
>If a vampire only changes their clan, their sect status changes with it
>to the default.
>
>If a vampire also has a sect changing effect on them, they change sect.
>
>e.g. A Ravnos (Independent) clan impersonates to Lasombra (Sabbat). He
>is now a Sabbat vampire who is treated as a Lasombra vampire. He then
>equips with a Writ of Acceptance. He is now a Camarilla Lasombra.

Doh. I thought they said Derangement THEN allegiance counter.