New Vampire Database Request
XZealot
their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
LSJ
> Is it possible to have an entry in ARDB for every merged vampire with
> their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
> should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
The WW files list only the cards. It doesn't list what attributes they might
gain or lose through play (through merging or discipline cards or equipment or
referendums or whatever).
Jazzbeaux
Could the list be updated so any tournament banned cards state that
fact? I imagine that it would require a little work on the text file,
but would add a whole level of clarity to players browsing either WW
website, or any deckbuilder that uses the WW text file.
Something like this would be good;
Memories of Mortality
Type: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master.
Put this card on a vampire; this vampire cannot attempt to block
allies. Any damage this vampire inflicts on allies is reduced to 0.
This vampire may burn 1 blood during his or her controller's influence
phase to burn this card; he or she then goes into torpor.
<This card is currently banned for Tournament Play.>
Rarity: AH:U5 CE:U
Sam
LSJ
> Could the list be updated so any tournament banned cards state that
> fact? I imagine that it would require a little work on the text file,
> but would add a whole level of clarity to players browsing either WW
> website, or any deckbuilder that uses the WW text file.
> Something like this would be good;
>
> Memories of Mortality
> Type: Master
> Cost: 1 pool
> Master.
> Put this card on a vampire; this vampire cannot attempt to block
> allies. Any damage this vampire inflicts on allies is reduced to 0.
> This vampire may burn 1 blood during his or her controller's influence
> phase to burn this card; he or she then goes into torpor.
> <This card is currently banned for Tournament Play.>
> Rarity: AH:U5 CE:U
Sure.
LSJ
To those of you who maintain programs that read and parse the datafiles, do you
have a preference as to how this manifests?
Options:
A token in the "Set/Rarity" list with a date on which the card was banned (like
promos are currently handled). i.e., AH:U5, CE:U, Banned-200800101
Errata line added to text box, as Jazzbeaux suggests above
New column (field) in the csv
texasjusticar
> LSJ wrote:
<snip>
> Errata line added to text box, as Jazzbeaux suggests above
This would be the easiest approach as it would require no effort on my
(or likely any other 3rd party) part as the text of 'banned' could be
searched for to find all banned cards.
New column would be my next preference.
I don't personally like the option of token in set rarity.
</opinion>
--------------
Ethan Burrow - still lurking
http://monger.vekn.org
http://presence.vekn.org
Graham Smith
> have a preference as to how this manifests?
>
> Options:
I happy with Errata line in card text or New column. Not keen on
Rarity token though.
Graham.
Graham Smith
> Is it possible to have an entry in ARDB for every merged vampire with
> their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
> should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
Let me think about this one.
Graham.
XZealot
It just seemed handy to have the merged vampire shown in its entirety.
As the functionality is that of a single vampire, not a vampire with
library cards on them. It is the only instance where two crypt cards
work in concert and do so by design. So it seemed intuitive that if
you design them to merge that you would want to show the final product
of your hard work.
JH
> have a preference as to how this manifests?
>
> Options:
>
> A token in the "Set/Rarity" list with a date on which the card was banned (like
> promos are currently handled). i.e., AH:U5, CE:U, Banned-200800101
>
> Errata line added to text box, as Jazzbeaux suggests above
>
> New column (field) in the csv
I'd definately prefer a new column to the CSV. That way I wouldn't
have to change my CSV parser at all. Additional text to the card text
would be ok, although I wouldn't like it too much. Definate no to the
Set/Rarity column. That would create only problems.
nys...@cs.com
> It just seemed handy to have the merged vampire shown in
> its entirety. As the functionality is that of a single vampire,
> not a vampire with library cards on them. It is the only
> instance where two crypt cards work in concert and do so
> by design.
Not really. Lots of card combos are intended by design. If we
consider only crypt cards combining with other crypt cards, we have,
for just a few examples: Aabbt Kindred combined with Nefertiti;
Tremere vampires combined with Gargoyle Tremere Slave Vampires; Enid
Blount combined with Edith Blount; Onaedo combined with Otienno.
> So it seemed intuitive that if you design them to
> merge that you would want to show the final product
> of your hard work.
Perhaps. But since the player must do the hard work of merging the
vampires, seems to me that -- as with any combo -- he might as well do
the hard work of calculating the result.
Nor is it self evident to me that merging them will be a priority for
the player's strategy. He might prefer to draw 4 different vampires,
but want 2 copies of that vampire in his crypt for other reasons (such
as the discipline spread), just to maximize the chances of drawing
just one. But by instead using a base version and an advanced
version, he minimizes the damage of such an "unlucky draw" by gaining
a potential offsetting benefit.
LSJ
> I'd definately prefer a new column to the CSV. That way I wouldn't
> have to change my CSV parser at all. Additional text to the card text
> would be ok, although I wouldn't like it too much.
It seems like the solution to be enacted is "both a new column in the CSV and
card text addendum", based on feedback so far.
> Definate no to the
> Set/Rarity column. That would create only problems.
What problems?
What problems has the promo-YYYYMMDD set created?
XZealot
> On May 9, 4:55 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > It just seemed handy to have the merged vampire shown in
> > its entirety. As the functionality is that of a single vampire,
> > not a vampire with library cards on them. It is the only
> > instance where two crypt cards work in concert and do so
> > by design.
>
> Not really. Lots of card combos are intended by design. If we
> consider only crypt cards combining with other crypt cards, we have,
> for just a few examples: Aabbt Kindred combined with Nefertiti;
> Tremere vampires combined with Gargoyle Tremere Slave Vampires; Enid
> Blount combined with Edith Blount; Onaedo combined with Otienno.
But no other mechanic in the game was designed to have two cards that
were named the same thing but have clearly differing texts, which when
played together generated an even more powerful gestalt. None of your
analogies have that in common.
> > So it seemed intuitive that if you design them to
> > merge that you would want to show the final product
> > of your hard work.
>
> Perhaps. But since the player must do the hard work of merging the
> vampires, seems to me that -- as with any combo -- he might as well do
> the hard work of calculating the result.
Or you could just make it easier by having the merged vampire's text
available.
> Nor is it self evident to me that merging them will be a priority for
> the player's strategy. He might prefer to draw 4 different vampires,
> but want 2 copies of that vampire in his crypt for other reasons (such
> as the discipline spread), just to maximize the chances of drawing
> just one. But by instead using a base version and an advanced
> version, he minimizes the damage of such an "unlucky draw" by gaining
> a potential offsetting benefit.
How is this even relavent to merging vampires? You are not talking
about merging vampires and the resultant gestalt. It is a simple
request, about an unique mechanic, not a "what if someone wants
something different" speculation.
andrea....@infinito.it
i think it should be one OR the other... no double info.
Andrea
Archibald Zimonyi
Well that depends on what you mean Scott. For myself, since I have a
database behind VEKN.SE and I split all the fields and then sometimes
split the info in each field I need, placing the info into the correct
database and column, I would have to make special code to handle the
banned part if it placed into a column with info that it is not really
relevant to. I doubt it would happen but you could choose to reprint a
card that is banned from tournament play, what would that then mean in
the CSV file?
Is a card being banned info pertaining to a set or a rarity? I would
say no. So please don't put it there simply for the reasons that it
does not belong there.
A new column would be my choice.
Archie
Archibald Zimonyi
Some other search engine or tool might add this as well but I will add
another entry for each merged vampire with the sum of it's
descriptions to the VEKN.SE search engine.
The cardname would be for example:
Alan Sovereign (Merged)
and can be searched for by simply typing merged into the cardname
field.
Also, Merged will appear as an attribute and can be selected from the
dropdown (these are basically synonymous).
It should appear by the end of tomorrow (or say 36 hours from this
post is done).
Archie
www.vekn.se
Graham Smith
>
> i think it should be one OR the other... no double info.
I agree with Andrea. One or the other.
I'm not a big fan of duplicating information.
Graham.
LSJ
You mean like the many sets of double info already in the csv?
How is that a problem, exactly?
LSJ
Then use the text file.
The csv already "duplicates" the info in the text file, so those who find
duplication onerous would be avoiding it (and it's nicely separated/duplicated
Disciplines, titles, costs, and requirements) in the first place.
LSJ
> Is a card being banned info pertaining to a set or a rarity? I would
> say no. So please don't put it there simply for the reasons that it
> does not belong there.
Ah, a real point. Thank you.
texasjusticar
> On 9 Maj, 16:18, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to have an entry in ARDB for every merged vampire with
> > their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
> > should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
> Some other search engine or tool might add this as well but I will add
> another entry for each merged vampire with the sum of it's
> descriptions to the VEKN.SE search engine.
FWIW Monger has been doing this for years. I think Norm is
specifically asking for ARDB to have this feature.
-----------------
Ethan Burrow - trailblazer of functionality
http://monger.vekn.org
http://presence.vekn.org
Ross Ridge
>To those of you who maintain programs that read and parse the datafiles,
>do you have a preference as to how this manifests?
>
>(like promos are currently handled). i.e., AH:U5, CE:U, Banned-200800101
It doesn't seem to belong there, as this purpose of this field is to
answer questions like "In what set can I find this card?" or "How rare
is this card?". Promo cards are essentially in their own unique sets,
while banning a card doesn't affect what set it belongs to or its rarity.
>Errata line added to text box, as Jazzbeaux suggests above
I think the text box should reflect what should actually be printed on
the card. Unless a hypothetical future printing of a banned card would
include the errata line, I don't think it belongs here either.
>New column (field) in the csv
I think this is the best option.
Ross Ridge
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
JH
> JH wrote:
> > I'd definately prefer a new column to the CSV. That way I wouldn't
> > have to change my CSV parser at all. Additional text to the card text
> > would be ok, although I wouldn't like it too much.
>
> It seems like the solution to be enacted is "both a new column in the CSV and
> card text addendum", based on feedback so far.
Either or. Not both. And IIRC the only double info in the CSV are the
disciplines. And they don't go into fields with other information. My
absolute favorite would be a banned field with a date in it that shows
since what date the card has been banned.
> > Definate no to the
> > Set/Rarity column. That would create only problems.
>
> What problems?
>
> What problems has the promo-YYYYMMDD set created?
Promo-YYYYMMDD set creates problems that it needs specific code to
parse correctly. Banned-YYYYMMDD would create additional need for such
code. And even more, because I wouldn't like to show Banned info in
the set information.
Archibald Zimonyi
> On May 12, 1:16 am, Archibald Zimonyi <a...@aranzo.netg.se> wrote:
>
> > On 9 Maj, 16:18, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > Is it possible to have an entry in ARDB for every merged vampire with
> > > their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
> > > should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
> > Some other search engine or tool might add this as well but I will add
> > another entry for each merged vampire with the sum of it's
> > descriptions to the VEKN.SE search engine.
>
> FWIW Monger has been doing this for years. I think Norm is
> specifically asking for ARDB to have this feature.
Hmmmm, how? As far as I see Monger does what VEKN.SE does, which is
currently show two different cards but add Advanced to one to
distinguish between them.
What I think Norm means is that you have the sum of both cards in the
one search, eg:
Cardname: Lucita (Merged)
Cardtype: Vampire
Sect: Sabbat
Group: 2
Clan: Lasombra
Capacity: 8
Discipline: cel DOM FOR OBT pot
Cardtext: Sabbat Archbishop of Aragon: Sabbat vampires younger than
Lucita get -1 intercept when attempting to block Lucita. Once each
action Lucita performs, she may burn 2 blood to cancel a reaction card
played by a vampire with capacity less than 6 as it is played (no cost
is paid).
As that is how the vampire Lucita looks once she is merged (if she
would have been a completely other vampire). Sure it is a card that
doesn't exist and yes one could do the math yourself in order to add
up both the basic and advanced version of the card but with this you
can for example search for DAI and find the merged Helena (which you
would never be able to otherwise via the one search). A small and
nifty addition which might only cater to a select few but no real
reason not to do it.
Archie
www.vekn.se
texasjusticar
> On 12 Maj, 17:30, texasjusticar <texasjusti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 1:16 am, Archibald Zimonyi <a...@aranzo.netg.se> wrote:
>
> > > On 9 Maj, 16:18, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Is it possible to have an entry in ARDB for every merged vampire with
> > > > their total combined text and their proper disciplines? Perhaps I
> > > > should ask LSJ for those same entries in the WW files?
> > > Some other search engine or tool might add this as well but I will add
> > > another entry for each merged vampire with the sum of it's
> > > descriptions to the VEKN.SE search engine.
>
> > FWIW Monger has been doing this for years. I think Norm is
> > specifically asking for ARDB to have this feature.
>
> Hmmmm, how? As far as I see Monger does what VEKN.SE does, which is
> currently show two different cards but add Advanced to one to
> distinguish between them.
I looked and noticed indeed Lucita doesn't have a merged version,
dunno why.
Helena's is here : http://monger.vekn.org/showvamp.html?ID=819
Guess I should double check the DB for all advanced vampires...maybe
something got messed up in the transfer a while back.
-------------------------------------
Ethan Burrow - confused
http://monger.vekn.org
http://presence.vekn.org
XZealot
I just checked Monger and Helena is the only vampire with a Merged
version.
Archibald Zimonyi
>
> - Visa citerad text -
Cool, I only chose a random vamp that ended up being Alan Sovereign,
and he didn't have it.
Archie
www.vekn.se
LSJ
> On May 12, 3:59 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> JH wrote:
>>> I'd definately prefer a new column to the CSV. That way I wouldn't
>>> have to change my CSV parser at all. Additional text to the card text
>>> would be ok, although I wouldn't like it too much.
>> It seems like the solution to be enacted is "both a new column in the CSV and
>> card text addendum", based on feedback so far.
>
> Either or. Not both.
Yes. I understood your statement of personal preference. I was summarizing the
broader feedback set, however.
> And IIRC the only double info in the CSV are the
> disciplines.
Title.
JH
Yeah. Well. That too. Title should be in the card text because it
reads there. But having it separately also adds functionality of
searches from the CSV. So it's a definite bonus that it's on two
different locations.
LSJ
Um, yeah. That's the idea behind double listing info at all.
Also: requirements.
And soon: bannedity.
JH
Yeah, but all the previous double listings have been done so that
something that is originally in the card text box is duplicated
elsewhere to ease searching. Not the other way around. If you are
really going to add it into the card text box i hope that you are
going to make some kind of a parser code for it (like {'s for erratas,
mrps and such), for easy exclusion.
As it's own field it would be the easiest to add into a csv-parser.
- you want to add it into the card text field: cardtext = cardtext +
banned
- you want it as separate entity: cardtext = cardtext, banned = banned
- you want to ignore it completely: cardtext = cardtext
Archibald Zimonyi
Follow www.vekn.se, click on the Search link and then you can search
for the vampires either by entering the keyword "Merged" as part of
the cardname of by selecting the attribute Merged in the Attributes
list.
Enjoy,
Archie
www.vekn.se
XZealot
> VEKN.SE is updated with Merged information.
>
> for the vampires either by entering the keyword "Merged" as part of
> the cardname of by selecting the attribute Merged in the Attributes
> list.
Is there a way to sort the resultant list?
Archibald Zimonyi
Nopes. I never had any use for it myself so I never bothered
implementing it. The result list is extremely simple compared to the
search page. It has a pre-defined grouping of cardtypes (same as in
the Search page) and then lists in alphabetical order within each
grouping.
I have for a very long time tried to update the result list but it's
slow work with all the other things I've got going. Lately I've gone
back to updating the VEKN.SE site so such functionality will appear. I
want users to be able to choose what info is listed on the result list
page, so that you can select to see for example Name, Disciplines and
Capacity for all results without having to click on each card for that
info.
Archie
www.vekn.se
andrea....@infinito.it
andrea....@infinito.it
well the info doubled is related to columns that extract specific
information from the text of the card. This will be an extra info and
then is not exactly the same.
LSJ
Since the proposal is to have the online card text reflect the banning as errata
to card text, the column in the csv will be effectively a column in the csv that
extracts that specific information.
But regardless, the question remains:
Graham Smith
>
> But regardless, the question remains:
>
> How is that a problem, exactly?
I do not think there is actual a problem. Add both in and I know I
will handle it in Ardb.
Graham.