A few questions...
James Coupe
<mi...@darkness.org.uk> writes
>1) Suppose I build a whizzy-combat deck based around Celerity, using
>Brujah, Toreador and/or Assamites. In a single round of combat, how
>many cards can I play to gain additional strikes? Does a card such as
>Acrobatics (Strike: dodge with an additional strike) count towards any
>limits in this regard?
>
1, from any source - unless it is Quickness or Jacko, which specifically
state to the contrary. Any card which provides additional strikes at
the level you play it at counts towards this, even if it provides
something else as well.
>2) I can see from the rulings on the Wizards site that any strike that
>does not strike for damage is considered 'envrionmental'. Does this
>include cards such as Coma (Dementation)?
Which ruling is this, and where? This was not the ruling as LSJ issued
it, as I recall.
>In regards to Coma, is the
>strike considered, short-range, long-range or either?
It's short range, since it does not state it can be used at long.
>Is it possible
>to dodge a strike like Coma, or is the effect inevitable?
You can dodge it, preventing the effects to yourself.
>If Coma is
>used, doe the minion still get their full complement of strikes for
>damage in return before the effect resolves?
They get their strike in that pair of strikes. After that, the strikes
resolve. Then you would go on to declare additional strikes or
whatever, but you're already in torpor.
>
>3) To confirm, the errata for Fame (replacing the original card text)
>means that the controller of the vampire with Fame takes the 3 blood
>penalty when the vampire goes to topor, correct? Can someone explain
>exactly why this card got changed?
>
It got into very messy situations with "I put this card on my vampire, I
shoot myself with Zip Gun, you can't do anything about it."
Now it goes - "I put this card on *your* vampire. I rush you, have
combat and if I can get you into torpor (and you can maneuver, dodge,
combat ends, whatever), you lose pool."
>4) The Wizards site has a list of about 6 banned cards for DCI VtES
>tournements. On top of these are there any restricted cards?
>
No. The banned cards are:
The 3 cards referencing Ante
Return to Innocence
Monocle of Clarity
Madness of the Bard.
Rowan Ring.
"Stake" which says paralyse on it is read exactly the same as the
current text (check the errata) for Wooden Stake.
>5) One of my friends has a large collection of original Jyhad, but he
>rarely plays, and simply keeps them for their aesthetic and monetary
>value. Anyone have any ideas how much a complete set would go for in
>the UK?
GenCon '97 had one up for about 50 quid reserve, which didn't go
anywhere, or get any bids. You might like to try one of the auction
places, like QXL or E-bay.
>(I told him it wouldn't be much) Does anyone know what the
>going rate for singles would be if he broke his collection up? (I said
>maybe 5p a common, 50p a rare, £1 to £3 a rare ???)
>
Depending on the cards (quality, condition, number of each if he is
selling more than just the full collection), that's probably somewhere
in the right sort of region.
Since Jyhad is not as easy to get in the UK as it is in the US, it could
probably stand being sold at a *little* more than that, but not much.
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk
LSJ
>
> I have a few questions for you all...
>
> ---
>
> 1) Suppose I build a whizzy-combat deck based around Celerity, using
> Brujah, Toreador and/or Assamites. In a single round of combat, how
> many cards can I play to gain additional strikes?
One. [6.4.3.3]
> Does a card such as
> Acrobatics (Strike: dodge with an additional strike) count towards any
> limits in this regard?
Yes. [card text]
> 2) I can see from the rulings on the Wizards site that any strike that
> does not strike for damage is considered 'envrionmental'.
No. "Environmental" is a term applied to damage that doesn't come from
the opposing minion in combat.
Non-damaging effects from strikes are simply non-damaging effects. They
are not "environmental" effects.
> Does this include cards such as Coma (Dementation)?
Coma's effect is a non-damage-dealing effect. But it is not environmental.
> In regards to Coma, is the strike considered, short-range, long-range or either?
Short-range. [6.4.3.2]
> Is it possible to dodge a strike like Coma, or is the effect inevitable?
It is possible. [6.4.5]
> If Coma is used, doe the minion still get their full complement of strikes for
> damage in return before the effect resolves?
The opposing minion's strike is resolved simultaneously with the Coma strike.
[6.4.3.2]
Once the minion is no longer ready (goes to torpor or is burned), then combat
ends. If either minion had any additional strikes coming, such strikes are
lost, since combat is over. [6.4.3]
> 3) To confirm, the errata for Fame (replacing the original card text)
> means that the controller of the vampire with Fame takes the 3 blood
> penalty when the vampire goes to topor, correct?
Yes:
Fame
Cardtype: Master
Unique Master. Put this card on a ready vampire. If he or she goes into
torpor, the {vampire's controller} burns 3 pool. Each Methuselah burns 1
pool during his or her untap phase if this vampire in torpor.
> Can someone explain exactly why this card got changed?
The comments presented with the erratum when it was issued are:
# This removes the "watch me shoot myself" abuses, and gives combat decks
# slightly improved speed, which helps in a tournament situation where the
# games are timed.
To elaborate on that, it was to prevent the "yo-yo ubercheese"
[GOMI 19-MAY-1998] effect of putting Fame on your own vamp and then bouncing
him in and out of torpor (typically while bleeding your prey for lots
unblockably in addition, or by using Talbot's Chainsaw and Chantry).
> 4) The Wizards site has a list of about 6 banned cards for DCI VtES
> tournements. On top of these are there any restricted cards?
No.
> 5) One of my friends has a large collection of original Jyhad, but he
> rarely plays, and simply keeps them for their aesthetic and monetary
> value. Anyone have any ideas how much a complete set would go for in
> the UK? (I told him it wouldn't be much) Does anyone know what the
> going rate for singles would be if he broke his collection up? (I said
> maybe 5p a common, 50p a rare, £1 to £3 a rare ???)
Sorry, can't help you there.
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
Mike Nudd
I have a few questions for you all...
---
1) Suppose I build a whizzy-combat deck based around Celerity, using
Brujah, Toreador and/or Assamites. In a single round of combat, how
many cards can I play to gain additional strikes? Does a card such as
Acrobatics (Strike: dodge with an additional strike) count towards any
limits in this regard?
2) I can see from the rulings on the Wizards site that any strike that
does not strike for damage is considered 'envrionmental'. Does this
include cards such as Coma (Dementation)? In regards to Coma, is the
strike considered, short-range, long-range or either? Is it possible
to dodge a strike like Coma, or is the effect inevitable? If Coma is
used, doe the minion still get their full complement of strikes for
damage in return before the effect resolves?
3) To confirm, the errata for Fame (replacing the original card text)
means that the controller of the vampire with Fame takes the 3 blood
penalty when the vampire goes to topor, correct? Can someone explain
exactly why this card got changed?
4) The Wizards site has a list of about 6 banned cards for DCI VtES
tournements. On top of these are there any restricted cards?
5) One of my friends has a large collection of original Jyhad, but he
rarely plays, and simply keeps them for their aesthetic and monetary
value. Anyone have any ideas how much a complete set would go for in
the UK? (I told him it wouldn't be much) Does anyone know what the
going rate for singles would be if he broke his collection up? (I said
maybe 5p a common, 50p a rare, £1 to £3 a rare ???)
---
Cheers,
----
Mike Nudd
mi...@darkness.org.uk
work in progress... www.darkness.org.uk
Mike Nudd
>> 1) Suppose I build a whizzy-combat deck based around Celerity, using
>> Brujah, Toreador and/or Assamites. In a single round of combat, how
>> many cards can I play to gain additional strikes?
>
>One. [6.4.3.3]
>
>> Does a card such as
>> Acrobatics (Strike: dodge with an additional strike) count towards any
>> limits in this regard?
>
>Yes. [card text]
OK. So it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
(sup), but it would not be legal to play a second card that provides
additional strikes by default?
Thanks for your other comments.
Mike Nudd
mi...@darkness.org.uk
msa...@cc.jyu.fi
> OK. So it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
> (sup), but it would not be legal to play a second card that provides
> additional strikes by default?
No... or at least that doesn't sound too good. If you can play it, at
least you won't get the additional strike.
Quickness(?) is pretty much the only way to gain additional strikes from
more than one combat card.
--
mikko saari msaari
http://www.jyu.fi/~msaari/ @jyu.fi
176 "du är som jag / när du dansar / musik non stop till slut"
LSJ
>
> >> 1) Suppose I build a whizzy-combat deck based around Celerity,
using
> >> Brujah, Toreador and/or Assamites. In a single round of combat, how
> >> many cards can I play to gain additional strikes?
> >
> >One. [6.4.3.3]
> >
> >> Does a card such as
> >> Acrobatics (Strike: dodge with an additional strike) count towards
any
> >> limits in this regard?
> >
> >Yes. [card text]
>
> (sup), but it would not be legal to play a second card that provides
> additional strikes by default?
No. Since both would count toward the limit (of one), only one can
be used. (Superior Acrobatics *does* provide an additional strike by
default.)
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
James Coupe
<mi...@darkness.org.uk> writes
>
>OK. So it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
>(sup), but it would not be legal to play a second card that provides
>additional strikes by default?
Blur sup: "(S) Two additional strikes"
Acrobatics sup: "(S) Strike: dodge, with an additional strike"
Since both give you an additional strike, you cannot play both of them.
The concept of "by default" or whatever isn't relevant. The card gives
you an additional strike as part of its effect, hence it is a second
source of additional strikes - hence unplayable.
ramst...@my-deja.com
Hello James,
A minion with superior celerity could play Acrobatics at normal and
then follow it up with Blur at superior, could it not? Thus gaining
the additional strike for the total cost of 2 blood.
Michael Eichler
LSJ
> James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > <mi...@darkness.org.uk> writes
> > >it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
> >
> > Blur sup: "(S) Two additional strikes"
> > Acrobatics sup: "(S) Strike: dodge, with an additional strike"
> >
>
> A minion with superior celerity could play Acrobatics at normal and
> then follow it up with Blur at superior, could it not? Thus gaining
> the additional strike for the total cost of 2 blood.
No. A minion can play only one additional-strike-gaining effect in
a given round of combat. After playing inferior Acrobatics
("Additional strike"), he could not play any other
additional-strike-gaining effect in the same round. [6.4.3.3]
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
carlos_...@my-deja.com
vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote:
> ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > <mi...@darkness.org.uk> writes
> > > >it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
> > > >(sup) [...]
> > >
> > > Blur sup: "(S) Two additional strikes"
> > > Acrobatics sup: "(S) Strike: dodge, with an additional strike"
> > >
> > > Since both give you an additional strike, you cannot play both
[...]
> >
> > A minion with superior celerity could play Acrobatics at normal and
> > then follow it up with Blur at superior, could it not? Thus gaining
> > the additional strike for the total cost of 2 blood.
>
> No. A minion can play only one additional-strike-gaining effect in
> a given round of combat. After playing inferior Acrobatics
> ("Additional strike"), he could not play any other
> additional-strike-gaining effect in the same round. [6.4.3.3]
I guess he meant it the other way round: first play Blur for 1 or 2
additionals, then play sup Acrobatics for one of your additional
strikes, hence dodging and ignoring the "with an additional strike"
sentence.
Mike Nudd
>> OK. So it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
>> (sup), but it would not be legal to play a second card that provides
>> additional strikes by default?
>
>No. Since both would count toward the limit (of one), only one can
>be used. (Superior Acrobatics *does* provide an additional strike by
>default.)
Of course - that's me mis-reading the card...
It's
(Strike: Dodge) + (Additional Strike)
Not
Strike: (Dodge + Additional Strike)
Cheers,
Mike Nudd
mi...@darkness.org.uk
work in progress... www.darkness.org.uk/vtes
LSJ
> vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote:
> > ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > Since both give you an additional strike, you cannot play both
> > >
> > > then follow it up with Blur at superior, could it not? Thus gaining
> > > the additional strike for the total cost of 2 blood.
> >
> > No. A minion can play only one additional-strike-gaining effect in
> > a given round of combat. After playing inferior Acrobatics
> > ("Additional strike"), he could not play any other
> > additional-strike-gaining effect in the same round. [6.4.3.3]
>
> I guess he meant it the other way round: first play Blur for 1 or 2
> additionals, then play sup Acrobatics for one of your additional
> strikes, hence dodging and ignoring the "with an additional strike"
> sentence.
Still, no. After playing one additional-strike-gaining effect, he
could not play another.
Just as you cannot ignore the "+1 bleed" on superior bonding just
to get the stealth.
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
ramst...@my-deja.com
carlos_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <85fehi$484$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote:
> > ramst...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > >it would be legal to play Blur (sup) followed by Acrobatics
> > > >
> > > > Blur sup: "(S) Two additional strikes"
> > > > Acrobatics sup: "(S) Strike: dodge, with an additional strike"
> > > >
> > >
> > > A minion with superior celerity could play Acrobatics at normal
and
> > > then follow it up with Blur at superior, could it not? Thus
gaining
> > > the additional strike for the total cost of 2 blood.
> >
> > No. A minion can play only one additional-strike-gaining effect in
> > a given round of combat. After playing inferior Acrobatics
> > ("Additional strike"), he could not play any other
> > additional-strike-gaining effect in the same round. [6.4.3.3]
>
> I guess he meant it the other way round: first play Blur for 1 or 2
> additionals, then play sup Acrobatics for one of your additional
> strikes, hence dodging and ignoring the "with an additional strike"
> sentence.
>
Actually it was a complete mental breakdown. For some reason my memory
of Acrobatics was Normal - Dodge, Superior Dodge with additional strike.
It wasn't until after LSJ answered that my goof hit me.
My apologizes
Michael Eichler
James Coupe
>Actually it was a complete mental breakdown. For some reason my memory
>of Acrobatics was Normal - Dodge, Superior Dodge with additional strike.
Were the texts to be so, that would be entirely acceptable.
ramst...@my-deja.com
Yeah, my mind was applying Arms of the Abyss text to the Acrobatics
title.
Oh course, it would be interesting to see a Celerity and Obtenebration
Combat deck, but then you would have Brujah would you not?
<sigh>
ramst...@my-deja.com
James Coupe <ve...@obeah.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <85i89u$5ca$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ramst...@my-deja.com
writes
> >Actually it was a complete mental breakdown. For some reason my
memory
> >of Acrobatics was Normal - Dodge, Superior Dodge with additional
strike.
>
> Were the texts to be so, that would be entirely acceptable.
>
> --
> James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
>
> Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
> http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk
>
Yeah, my mind was applying Arms of the Abyss text to the Acrobatics
title.
Oh course, it would be interesting to see a Lasombra with Celerity