Predator's Communion
Jozxyqk
"Only usable by a tapped vampire when a vampire is acting. This
reacting vampire untaps."
I have a few little timing questions about this card.
1) Can this card be played during a referendum? (In order to
facilitate a Delaying Tactics, or to lessen the blow of a Domain
Challenge, or whatever) Card text implies "yes" (a vampire is
still acting).
2) Can this card be used after a successful block? (during the
timing window when one would play Cats Guidance or Fast Reaction)
I'm not sure of this one. Is the "acting vampire" still considered
to be acting, at this time? I would think "yes" but am just looking
for confirmation.
Sten Düring
> The superior text of Predator's Communion is this:
> "Only usable by a tapped vampire when a vampire is acting. This
> reacting vampire untaps."
>
>
> I have a few little timing questions about this card.
>
> 1) Can this card be played during a referendum? (In order to
> facilitate a Delaying Tactics, or to lessen the blow of a Domain
> Challenge, or whatever) Card text implies "yes" (a vampire is
> still acting).
In general, reaction cards cannot be played during a referendum.
Reaction cards playable during referendums have "rule breaking"
text in line with "only playable during a referendum" or "also
playable during a referendum". The same is true for action
modifiers.
I have to admit that I'm unable to find WHERE this rule is written
though, but, unfourtenately, this is not exactly an uncommon
situation for V:TES. :)
The "when a vampire is acting" is not only a clarification, it's
also a specification. Predator's Communion is useless when you
get rushed by a War Ghoul as it is not a vampire.
>
> 2) Can this card be used after a successful block? (during the
> timing window when one would play Cats Guidance or Fast Reaction)
> I'm not sure of this one. Is the "acting vampire" still considered
> to be acting, at this time? I would think "yes" but am just looking
> for confirmation.
Yes. As long as action modifiers are playable you may play reaction
cards (insofar as they are legal to play in the first place depending
on type of action and card text). You could, for example, respond to
a Freak Drive after having declined to block an inoffensive action.
Sten During
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
LSJ
No to both. Action Modifiers and Reaction cards generally can be played
only before action resolution. Explicit card text ("after blocking" or
"during a referendum") is needed to overcome that. (Or being a Wake).
Sten Düring
>
> No to both. Action Modifiers and Reaction cards generally can be played
> only before action resolution. Explicit card text ("after blocking" or
> "during a referendum") is needed to overcome that. (Or being a Wake).
>
Doh, that's what you get for not reading the entire question.
I should be allowed to play it after declining to block a bleed though.
At least as long as bleed modifiers (both Action Modifiers and Reaction
cards, including "bounce" cards) are playable.
Then there's the matter of the actual wording of the card. It DOES
state "when a vampire is acting", which actually includes the entire
action, but I guess designers intent was for that sentence to be a
restriction, ie NOT usable when a non-vampire is acting.
What is a Wake? Ie, where are the cards listed that belongs to the
group "Wake"? (Ok, third edition may rectify this, but other attributes
are actually being printed, like Frenzy, Grapple, Mortal and so on.
Forced Awakening, Wake with Evening's Freshness and Helena
all lack such a printed attribute.)
LSJ
> LSJ skrev:
> > No to both. Action Modifiers and Reaction cards generally can be played
> > only before action resolution. Explicit card text ("after blocking" or
> > "during a referendum") is needed to overcome that. (Or being a Wake).
>
> Doh, that's what you get for not reading the entire question.
>
> I should be allowed to play it after declining to block a bleed though.
> At least as long as bleed modifiers (both Action Modifiers and Reaction
> cards, including "bounce" cards) are playable.
So long as it's before resolution, sure.
> Then there's the matter of the actual wording of the card. It DOES
> state "when a vampire is acting", which actually includes the entire
> action, but I guess designers intent was for that sentence to be a
> restriction, ie NOT usable when a non-vampire is acting.
Reaction cards in general are usable when another Methuselah's minion
is acting. So, yes, "when a vampire is acting" is a restriction,
without resorting to intent.
> What is a Wake? Ie, where are the cards listed that belongs to the
> group "Wake"?
A reaction card that enables a tapped minion to play reaction cards as
if untapped.
It is not a game term, just one used to describe that class of cards.
Sten Düring
>
>> What is a Wake? Ie, where are the cards listed that belongs to the
>> group "Wake"?
>
> A reaction card that enables a tapped minion to play reaction cards as
> if untapped.
> It is not a game term, just one used to describe that class of cards.
>
Ok, I do suggest that it be formalized as a game-term. There are a few
specials attached to "wake cards", of which I assume there are exactly
two. The definition above is simple and explicit, but for new players
a few lines on the Rulings Page on the WW website would be good.
Document it as a "class of cards" if that is preferable.
Special rules I know of are: Playable anytime during an action (but
not during referendum, correct, incorrect?). Playable "as card is
played". Finding these special rules is quite a daunting task. For
example, the query "wake playable as card is played" on the usenet
archive doesn't seem to yield the one single posting where "Wake cards"
were suddenly changed to overrule 1.4 and 1.6.1.5.
In this very thread I learn that "Wake cards" are playable after an
action resolves but before it ends. Searching for "wake playable
after action resolves" gives very little directly. Sure, learning
that you can wake and Fast Reaction kind of hints at it :)
Same goes for "reaction cards not playable after action resolves".
Written that way, a new player, reading the rulesbook can easily
see that Deflection, and Conditioning for that matter, are illegal
to play after a player declines to block, if that new player had
been taught the rule mentioned in this thread. (Matching the
rule here with 6.2.3)
So another suggested addition to the Rulings Page.
The basics here is that I feel that, as a new base set is being
released, as much as could easily be clarified where it is easy to
find is important. Base sets should, hopefully, bring in several
new players who could shy away from the game if they feel that
rules are arbitrarily created on a webforum called Google Groups :)