Egothha
serge
they have dealt w/ a similar situation.
The active player had a ready Egothha out but didn't ask his prey to
burn the top card of their library during the untap step. During the
Master step the active player realized the missed effect and asked his
prey to burn the top card of their library.
This started a long debate about how to handle missed effects. Any
suggestions/comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
Jeroen Rombouts
"serge" <serge...@cox.net> schreef in bericht
news:1130500994.7...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Well, you have to look at the card text:
Egotha: Sabbat: During your untap phase, if Egothha is ready, your prey
burns the top card of his or her library; if that card is a master card,
Egothha gains 1 blood.
It happens automatically. It cannot be skipped. If you forget, you have to
rewind the game to the untap phase (if possible)
contrast with:
Kurt Densch: Camarilla: During your untap phase, you *may* look at the top
card of your library, and Kurt may burn 1 blood to move that card to the
bottom of your library. +1 intercept.
It's not mandatory. So you can forget it. Same with eg, pool from the edge
and counters on the Week of Nightmares.
serge
Since the missed effect was caught during the following Master step it
was reasonable to "rewind" the game. Normally this would not have cause
such commotion but the "prey" had already lost 20+ cards to (4)
Slaughterhouses. Another part of the debate was who was responsible for
making sure all mandatory effects are handled per step.
Robert Goudie
serge wrote:
> The fact that it was a "mandatory" effect is what caused the debate.
> Since the missed effect was caught during the following Master step it
> was reasonable to "rewind" the game.
I assume you mean "unreasonable" to rewind a whole turn. When you can't
rewind, you should instead try to "jump back" to the point of the error
and fix it. Making the prey lose to Egotha once the error is noticed is
a fine solution, IMO.
> Normally this would not have cause
> such commotion but the "prey" had already lost 20+ cards to (4)
> Slaughterhouses.
Obviously this has no bearing on the solution but I can see how the
whole thing gets emotionally charged as your deck gets obliterated.
> Another part of the debate was who was responsible for
> making sure all mandatory effects are handled per step.
Actually, it isn't relevant. My group always tended to focus on who
was responsible too. The reason we wanted to know who was responsible
was so we could know who to blame for the error. And then once you know
who to blame you can punish them. For example, "It is *your*
responsibility to remember Egotha and since you forgot, too bad for
you. It's your own fault!"
But, in truth, it is everyone's responsibility to remember things like
this. And then, when an error is made, the judge is supposed to return
the game state to where it would have been had the error not occurred.
The judge cannot find the person responsible and return the game to a
less than fair state as punishment. Instead, the responsible party, if
any, is penalized using the warning system.
-Robert
salem
If the only thing that happened in between was losing a bunch of other
cards from their library, if it was shuffled correctly in the first
place it shouldn't matter whether egottha goes first or last.
(assuming no knowledge of the content of the top cards in the deck was
possessed by the player).
Automatic effects, i beleive, have the onus on the entire table to
remember. as a judge, i would put primary emphasis on the player
controlling egottha, and secondary emphasis on the prey. but everyone
would be responsible.
salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Daneel
wrote:
> Automatic effects, i beleive, have the onus on the entire table to
> remember. as a judge, i would put primary emphasis on the player
> controlling egottha, and secondary emphasis on the prey. but everyone
> would be responsible.
I'm usually very firm on insisting that the player playing with a certain
effect should know that effect intimately and remind other players of it.
--
Bye,
Daneel
LSJ
That's true.
Also true is that every other player should remind that player of
any such mandatory effects.
That is, it's everyone's responsibility, regardless of who controls the
effect or whom the effect benefits or hurts.
--
That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet.
Keep a little and let a little come back to me.
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
James Coupe
writes:
"I'm sorry, I borrowed this deck at the last minute" is a fairly simple
rebuttal which turns up in many tournaments I've been at with - for
example - players who didn't know about the tournament much in advance,
players who thought they were going to be working but aren't, player who
thought they couldn't get a lift there but it turns out they can, and so
on. I've done it myself, when we were hoping for enough players that a
judge would be necessary but it turned out to be small enough to be
multi-judged (before the changes to those rules), and so quite a lot of
the deck was new to me. In multi-deck games, I've borrowed a deck from
someone for the last round because my deck was pissing me off/not
flowing right/needed a lot of work etc.
Ditto "I'm new to the game, I don't know all the cards yet, someone else
helped me build this deck."
Also "I'm sorry, I hadn't checked the errata recently, I didn't know
that that effect had been changed."
It's really quite easy for a player to not be intimately familiar with
the effects of their deck if for no other reason than they have a real
life and they just play V:TES casually with any old random deck they
happen to have to hand. I'd rather not frighten off such players by
insisting they spend time they don't have becoming intimately familiar
with anything.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.