Re: Fun with the Church of the Order of St Blaise
salem
<vermil...@yahoo.com> scrawled:
(re: church of the order of st blaise)
>Yeah, so I loved this card the day that I learned about it, but I
>haven't really seen anyone else on this newsgroup talk about it a whole
>lot.
>
>What are your thoughts?
I think it requires a ready Sabbat vampire when you play it, thus
making some of your suggestions a bit trickier than they might first
appear. :)
but yeah, i really should go rebuild some sort of tzim intercept deck
again. i been using em only for war ghouls and bleeding (2 different
decks) for over a year now.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Jozxyqk
> Yeah, so I loved this card the day that I learned about it, but I
> haven't really seen anyone else on this newsgroup talk about it a whole
> lot.
> What are your thoughts?
Don't forget, the Church allows you to have more than 4 counters on
Powerbase: Madrid...
Name
news:1100233485....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah, so I loved this card the day that I learned about it, but I
> haven't really seen anyone else on this newsgroup talk about it a whole
> lot.
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
When I saw the card my first thought was that Palla Grande decks are going
to be even more powerful . . .
Neil
Matthew T. Morgan
Then you realized that Palla Grande isn't a location so it doesn't work
with St. Blaise? You still need the Goth Band to have an eternal Palla
Grande.
Matt Morgan
David Wilson
Alamut
Grand Temple of Set
Heartblood of the Clan
Inveraray, Scotland
Pere Lachaise, France
Powerbase: Baranquilla
Powerbase: Berlin
Powerbase: Chicago
Powerbase: Madrid
Powerbase: Mexico City
Powerbase: New York
Powerbase: Rome
Powerbase: Washington D.C.
Ravnos Cache
Ravnos Carnival
Spawning Pool
Tomb of Rameses III
Wasserschloss Anif, Austria
I think that the Spawning Pool may be more useful with order of St. Blaise,
but the Sabbat clause makes it tickier. Pere Lachaise is still probably
useless, too tricky to defend.
Name
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.04111...@fnord.io.com...
>
> Then you realized that Palla Grande isn't a location so it doesn't work
> with St. Blaise? You still need the Goth Band to have an eternal Palla
> Grande.
>
> Matt Morgan
>
Shwew.
Neil
Screaming Vermillian
making some of your suggestions a bit trickier than they might first
appear. :)"
Actually there are couple of sabbat vampires for ass, FoS, and Rav that
make this card not THAT tough to play. But yes, actually, I did miss
that aspect of that card. Heheh.
~SV
XZealot
> can be a lot of easy bleed.
No it isn't. The counters that trigger Inveray Scotland are "blood
counters" the counters from The Church of St Blaise only adds default
"counters". The words on Inveray, Scotland trigger +X bleed on "blood
counters".
Or.....
Inveray, Scotland accepts the "counters" as "blood counters" and The
Church of St Blaise can keep adding 1 every turn and ignore the 3
counters ceiling as the text of Inveray, Scotland only prevents the
vampire from moving more than 3 counters onto the card, but doesn't
limit the number of counters on the card.
Mmmm.....+7 bleed with Inveray.....
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Screaming Vermillian
location themselves, they are on the minion, which is 'on' the
location.
Location location location.
Jyhad_addict
yeah and also remember that the "value" of each specific card, can
change with the release of new cards. So, if there is a
master-location released, that can be loaded with counters using the
Church, and has a very good effect, then church might be even better.
LSJ
> Inveray, Scotland accepts the "counters" as "blood counters"
Correct.
> and The
> Church of St Blaise can keep adding 1 every turn and ignore the 3
> counters ceiling as the text of Inveray, Scotland only prevents the
> vampire from moving more than 3 counters onto the card, but doesn't
> limit the number of counters on the card.
Incorrect.
Card text: "No more than 3 blood may be put on this card."
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Screaming Vermillian
Card text: "No more than 3 blood may be put on this card.""
Um... Isn't this really just the case of one card text attempting to
over ride the other?
Inveray, Scotland
The vampire with this location may move 1 blood to this card as an
action; no more than 3 blood may be put on this card. This vampire gets
+X bleed, where X is the amount of blood on this card.
Church
Tap this card to add one counter to a location you control that uses
counters.
I understand which one you wish to have dominance over the other here,
that is the ability to add something not overriding the inability to
have stuff added... but where's the precedent, or is this a new ruling,
clarification or what cha ma call it?
My silly argument of why it is unclear refers to the card saying 'no
more ... blood may be put on this card' but does Inveray know that the
counter to which the church refers is a blood counter while its being
put on it, or does it realize that the counter being put on it from the
church is a blood counter after its being 'put' on the card?
I love somantics and thoughts on rules... I guess it all just depends
on what been ruled in the past about counters being placed onto cards
and what not... Perhaps I should read up on goth band stuff... or just
wait for your answer. :)
Screaming Vermillian
to the counters added by the minion taking actions to add them.
However, another way to play that little somantics game is to ponder
whether Inveray knows if the counters being added are blood. The Church
just says 'counters' not 'counters of the appropriate type'. So when do
the counters become blood counters? Does the church look at Inveray and
realize it needs a blood counter and then puts that on or does the
counter become a blood counter afterwards, once they are already there
and Inveray realizes "oh, I'll treat this new counter thats on me as a
blood counter".
Even if this doesn't fly, isn't this really just one card over riding
the text of another card? What takes dominance then, and where's the
precedence?
Well, even if you can't get +7 bleed, XZealot, Church makes Inveray a
much better card that it was before. Don't scoff at +3 bleed for two
blood (even if it'll take you a few turns to get it that high).
~SV
James Coupe
Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
>I understand which one you wish to have dominance over the other here,
>that is the ability to add something not overriding the inability to
>have stuff added... but where's the precedent, or is this a new ruling,
>clarification or what cha ma call it?
It's not a case of having dominance.
Inveraray gives you an option for adding counters. So does the Church.
Inveraray has specific text limiting the number of counters. The Church
does not have text over-riding this.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Who's ever heard of that, though!
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Designing a deck that just calls votes.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D That's crazy talk, there.
XZealot
> much better card that it was before. Don't scoff at +3 bleed for two
> blood (even if it'll take you a few turns to get it that high).
Oh, I know the power of the card. I play with it in my Nu Scooby Doo
deck. Usually by the end of the game Nu has like +6 permanent bleed
mods on him. Then he is chucking them down the pipe at stealth with
Earth Control.
Now the deck will be faster.
Mmm, Mmm, Nubilicious!
Screaming Vermillian
James Coupe
Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
>Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing. As
a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much.
Hollowboy
> In message <1100386491.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
>
> You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing. As
> a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much.
Hmm, looking at the simplest combo:
3 Into the Fire
1 Church of bla
1 Inverary
...that's pretty awful. In theory it saves 3 actions and 3 blood, but
you need all 3 parts of the combo to get anywhere, so it wouldn't kick
in until you got to the last quater of your library. That 5-card combo
would be better off with something simpler, less inter-dependant:
4 Life in the City
1 Inverary
However, blowing the module out and adding other stuff for the Church
to target makes it look a fair bit better. In a bleed-for-6-at-stealth
deck, I'm presuming you don't also have the goods to defend
Powerbases, so Chicago is the best one to use. DC is OK but not as
good - it works with the Church, but is probably too risky to use if
you don't have the Church out. So:
4 Into the Fire
2 Church of bla
2 Inverary
1 Chicago
1 DC
It's 10 slots, 4 full Master actions, but has more paths to glory than
the basic combo above:
ItF + Church + either Powerbase - outlay 2 master slots for 1 pool a
turn, that doesn't need defending. It's kind of better than Hunting
Ground / Blood Doll cos it works for a Bloodline, is safe from
Reformation, and less likely to be targeted by Kine Dominance,
Disputed Territory, Arson etc.
The chance of getting the Inverary combo off is much improved - if you
draw the castle early, you could grab it, smug in the knowledge that
you shouldn't have to wait very long for the rest of the combo to show
up.
I'd also be tempted to throw in goodies like Cooler and Nod (trifle)
so that weenies can load up with toys and then hand them all to Nu,
allowing him to haemmorhage blood with his actions and untappage... or
Cooler and Leather Jacket, so Nu can fetch the goodies off the little
guys, and untap one extra time via the Leather.
Hollowboy
> but the Sabbat clause makes it tickier.
For *just* Spawning Pool, I'd prefer to use a few Life in the City,
rather than the Church...
LitC is useful whether or not you have Spawning Pool in play.
If it's a dedicated intercept / Powerbase / Spawning Pool deck, adding
the church makes a bunch of sense.
salem
icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) scrawled:
>I'd also be tempted to throw in goodies like Cooler and Nod (trifle)
>so that weenies can load up with toys and then hand them all to Nu,
>allowing him to haemmorhage blood with his actions and untappage... or
>Cooler and Leather Jacket, so Nu can fetch the goodies off the little
>guys, and untap one extra time via the Leather.
if you're gonna send Nu into the Fire, you have just GOT to add Hungry
Coyote.
Hunting's a repeatable action, isn't it?
Kamel SENNI
Trade your palla grande, with your succubus club.
At the next untap of your ally, trade the two cardS.
Repeat as long you're in deal.
Palla Grande is eternal.
Kamel.
Jyhad_addict
> Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
>
> You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing. As
> a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much.
So, are you suggesting a couple of Into the Fire + a couple of
Churches ?
how many ?
'cause if you are suggesting 1+1, then you will rarely do the combo,
same thing with 2+2. So, you'll end up stacking 3+3 and eventually,
realize that you would have a better effect by removing these 6 cards
and place 6 other instead.
theory is good, but not always confirmed by practice.
Matthew T. Morgan
> > Then you realized that Palla Grande isn't a location so it doesn't work
> > with St. Blaise? You still need the Goth Band to have an eternal Palla
> > Grande.
> >
> > Matt Morgan
>
> Trade your palla grande, with your succubus club.
> At the next untap of your ally, trade the two cardS.
> Repeat as long you're in deal.
> Palla Grande is eternal.
Why would anyone make a deal like that? Anyway, I don't see how it would
work.
Assuming I'm your cross-table dupe, we could constantly trade the Palla
Grande on each of our untap phases, but then neither of us would ever get
to use it.
A better combo would be if you played Succubus Club, Palla Grande and Goth
Band. Then you trade me a Dreams of the Sphinx. Each turn, you send the
Goth Band to steal a counter from my Dreams and add it to your Palla
Grande. Now you've got an eternal Palla Grande that you can actually use
(plus I have a Dreams that never burns)!
Matt Morgan
Jozxyqk
I like (although it has never quite worked out for me):
Palla Grande
Goth Band
Brother's Grimm
If you don't take my Brother's Grimm away from me, I gain 5 pool.
If you do take my Brother's Grimm away from me and can't/don't block my Goth
Band actions, then I have an eternal Palla Grande and the Brothers never pop.
Jozxyqk
> Brother's Grimm
I am going to smack myself in the head repeatedly; why did I put that
apostrophe there? *violation of own grammatical pet peeve*
James Coupe
James Coupe
Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
>James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<ZipFmlIM...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>...
>> In message <1100386491.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
>>
>> You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing. As
>> a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much.
>
>So, are you suggesting a couple of Into the Fire + a couple of
>Churches ?
Plausibly, though there are many permutations.
Having that in addition to Sabbat vampires in your deck can be useful.
(Consider this the equivalent of including Blooding in a deck that
includes Black Hand vampires in the crypt.) As Salem points out, it can
work out well if you include other useful Sabbat options in the deck,
meaning that you don't rely on specific combos.
vermillian
> theory is good, but not always confirmed by practice.
Your mom sounds good, but isn't always so in practice. Lol.
No really man. You're such a downer to my sun ways to play with the
church.
How do YOU recommend having fun witht he church (other than folding it
into a paper airplane)?
~SV
Jyhad_addict
> On 14 Nov 2004 21:02:02 -0800,
> icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com (Hollowboy) scrawled:
>
> >I'd also be tempted to throw in goodies like Cooler and Nod (trifle)
> >so that weenies can load up with toys and then hand them all to Nu,
> >allowing him to haemmorhage blood with his actions and untappage... or
> >Cooler and Leather Jacket, so Nu can fetch the goodies off the little
> >guys, and untap one extra time via the Leather.
>
> if you're gonna send Nu into the Fire, you have just GOT to add Hungry
> Coyote.
>
> Hunting's a repeatable action, isn't it?
>
it is.
Hollowboy
I'm currently on a fad for stuff that's toolboxy / multi-useful. For
example, getting Nu to take a (kinda free) action to fetch a Leather
Jacket and a Cooler from Jake Washington. That's 3 cards, 2 of which
are juicy with blood gaining potential, but they are also about damage
prevention and having an emergency extra blocker around.
...whereas the Coyote is pretty much limited to "Nu gains 3 blood a
turn".
With Sabbat weenie / midcaps as Nu support, the Coyote gets better, of
course.
Kamel SENNI
> On 15 Nov 2004, Kamel SENNI wrote:
>
> > > Then you realized that Palla Grande isn't a location so it doesn't work
> > > with St. Blaise? You still need the Goth Band to have an eternal Palla
> > > Grande.
> > >
> > > Matt Morgan
> >
> > Trade your palla grande, with your succubus club.
> > At the next untap of your ally, trade the two cardS.
> > Repeat as long you're in deal.
> > Palla Grande is eternal.
>
> Why would anyone make a deal like that? Anyway, I don't see how it would
> work.
To gain victory point : the other player is at one pool, there is an
anarch revolt in play, He have succubus club. I offer him two victory
points, if he help me to gain the TW.
For example.
> Assuming I'm your cross-table dupe, we could constantly trade the Palla
> Grande on each of our untap phases, but then neither of us would ever get
> to use it.
Palla grande give +1 bleed to each toreador antitribe in play. Even
mine, if the palla grande is controled by another player. That's why
this works.
> A better combo would be if you played Succubus Club, Palla Grande and Goth
> Band. Then you trade me a Dreams of the Sphinx. Each turn, you send the
> Goth Band to steal a counter from my Dreams and add it to your Palla
> Grande. Now you've got an eternal Palla Grande that you can actually use
> (plus I have a Dreams that never burns)!
If I dont' have a aprt of the combo, goth band is useless. a gond
combo is a powerful one, that use card useful by themself. BTW, I have
seen this combo used, by accident ;))), and it is quite powerful, yes!
> Matt Morgan
Kamel.
BTW : ban succubus club.
Matthew T. Morgan
> > > Trade your palla grande, with your succubus club.
> > > At the next untap of your ally, trade the two cardS.
> > > Repeat as long you're in deal.
> > > Palla Grande is eternal.
> >
> > Why would anyone make a deal like that? Anyway, I don't see how it would
> > work.
>
> To gain victory point : the other player is at one pool, there is an
> anarch revolt in play, He have succubus club. I offer him two victory
> points, if he help me to gain the TW.
> For example.
Okay.
> > Assuming I'm your cross-table dupe, we could constantly trade the Palla
> > Grande on each of our untap phases, but then neither of us would ever get
> > to use it.
>
> Palla grande give +1 bleed to each toreador antitribe in play. Even
> mine, if the palla grande is controled by another player. That's why
> this works.
Oh of course. There's no "using" it. You're right it would work.
> > A better combo would be if you played Succubus Club, Palla Grande and Goth
> > Band. Then you trade me a Dreams of the Sphinx. Each turn, you send the
> > Goth Band to steal a counter from my Dreams and add it to your Palla
> > Grande. Now you've got an eternal Palla Grande that you can actually use
> > (plus I have a Dreams that never burns)!
> If I dont' have a aprt of the combo, goth band is useless. a gond
> combo is a powerful one, that use card useful by themself. BTW, I have
> seen this combo used, by accident ;))), and it is quite powerful, yes!
I haven't been playing !Toreador much lately, but in my area Dreams gets
played often enough that I think the combo would likely work even without
Succubus Club. Otherwise, Goth Band could block a rush, a Daring the Dawn
bleed or just be discarded. I wonder if the silly thing made the 10th
anniversary set. A !Toreador deck could play Goth Band, Mylan Horseed and
Gregory Winter (just for annoyance sake) and a few copies of The Summoning
to fetch the appropriate one.
It would be one of those fabulous decks that gets blocked all day at +1
stealth and does nothing.
In other Church of the Order of St. Blaise happenings, I built an Assamite
Heartblood/Alamut/Church deck based on inspiration from this thread, and
won a game on deckbot last night. Seems like a decent combo...I mean as
far as Assamite stuff goes.
Matt Morgan
(my Assamitis is flaring up again)
Decebalus
> Band. Then you trade me a Dreams of the Sphinx. Each turn, you send the
> Goth Band to steal a counter from my Dreams and add it to your Palla
> Grande. Now you've got an eternal Palla Grande that you can actually use
> (plus I have a Dreams that never burns)!
Dreams has an errata. You now remove counters.
Matthew T. Morgan
Official card text from www.white-wolf.com/vtes/cardlist.html:
Dreams of the Sphinx [AH:R2, FN:PG]
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Unique master.
Put a counter on this card each time you tap it; when the third counter is
added, burn this card. Tap this card to draw two cards and increase your
hand size by two cards until the end of the current turn. Tap during your
untap phase to gain an additional pool if you have the Edge. Tap to move a
blood from the blood bank to a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
Looks like the combo still works. The only other card I can think of
where the owner might actually want to lose counters is Week of
Nightmares.
Matt Morgan
Emmit Svenson
> How do YOU recommend having fun witht he church (other than folding it
> into a paper airplane)?
Church of the Order of St. Blaise
then
Fall of the Sabbat
then
Powerbase: Mexico City
salem
Svenson) scrawled:
>Church of the Order of St. Blaise
>
> then
>
>Fall of the Sabbat
>
> then
>
>Powerbase: Mexico City
Invincible!
Wouter Kuyper
I actually think there might be something useful to do with Grand
Temple of Set.
Just make a "I BLOCK EVERYTHING, especially when directed at me"-deck,
add some small serpents, or have a way to change to serpent and start
stealing.
The effect of the Temple is HUGE. If you find a way to use it while
denying the drawbacks (burnable, slow and expensive) you are a long
way. With the church you do something about the slow and expensive
part. You can steal a 1 cap for free at once, you can steal a 5 cap
for 4 pool (including the cost for the temple) in 2 turns. Longer if
you want it cheaper.
If you can stop the burnaction you are pretty good.
W
Matthew T. Morgan
> Just make a "I BLOCK EVERYTHING, especially when directed at me"-deck,
> add some small serpents, or have a way to change to serpent and start
> stealing.
Maybe make use of Kahina and her AUS? Don't forget Extortion to dissuade
further attempts and Eagle's Sight to keep your prey from getting the
edge. Why stop at one incredibly sketchy strategy?
> The effect of the Temple is HUGE. If you find a way to use it while
> denying the drawbacks (burnable, slow and expensive) you are a long
> way. With the church you do something about the slow and expensive
> part. You can steal a 1 cap for free at once, you can steal a 5 cap
> for 4 pool (including the cost for the temple) in 2 turns. Longer if
> you want it cheaper.
Actually, the Temple is even worse than you thought. You need to have
more counters on the Temple than the capacity of the vampire you're
stealing. That means with the Church you could steal Smudge the turn you
play the Temple, but it'll cost a pool in addition to the 2 pool you have
to pay for the Temple. If you're going after a 5 cap, it'll take you 3
turns to get up to 6 counters and the total cost (including 2 pool for the
Temple) is 5 pool.
On the other hand, stealing Arika would take 6 turns and cost a mere 8
pool. Ka-ching!
> If you can stop the burnaction you are pretty good.
Yeah, that's the trick, isn't it? My suggestion is you put your first
counter on the part of the card that mentions the (D) action and hope
everyone forgets. After the game they'll think "why doesn't that great
card see more play?" Two weeks later you'll burn their Temples at a
tournament and laugh at them. It's sure to work.
Matt Morgan
Jyhad_addict
folding it into a paper flamingo :)
Jyhad_addict
folding it into a paper flamingo :)
maybe in the future, it will be wothwhile to play it in combination
with a powerful location that uses counters, if such one is ever
released.
Jyhad_addict
> In message <c6a50f81.0411...@posting.google.com>,
> Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> >James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<ZipFmlIM...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>...
> >> In message <1100386491.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> >> Screaming Vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> >Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
> >>
> >> You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing. As
> >> a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much.
> >
> >So, are you suggesting a couple of Into the Fire + a couple of
> >Churches ?
>
> Plausibly, though there are many permutations.
>
> Having that in addition to Sabbat vampires in your deck can be useful.
> (Consider this the equivalent of including Blooding in a deck that
> includes Black Hand vampires in the crypt.) As Salem points out, it can
> work out well if you include other useful Sabbat options in the deck,
> meaning that you don't rely on specific combos.
exactly... include sabbat vampires that can be usefull.
Including 1-2 into the fire and 1-2 churces is plain not good enough.
Jyhad_addict
not a terrible thought, but still a bad one.
You are suggesting including in a deck a church, a Fall of the
sabbat and a Powerbase Mexico city to do what ? just to have a
permanent gain of pool each turn.
So, a 6 card combo (1 church, 1 powerbase Mexico city, 1 Fall of
the Sabbat and 3 other Gehenna cards, so as to be able to play the
Fall, as you can't base this combo in an assumption that other people
may play Gehenna cards). Additionaly, there must not be a ready BH
vampire in play.
Thus you can try and make this 6 card combo, costing 2 pool and
your vampires sect (as your vampires become independent) or
alternatively, instead of struggling to make this combo you can just
go for a quick victory point and then play Momentums edge and maybe
next turn a Gambit Accepted for a non costly (you just risk loosing 1
vp you have earned) permanent pool gain of 2, 1 of which comes from
your prey's pool.
Bottom line: best suggestion i have heard in here is to take the
church and fold it into a paper airplane, instead of trying to utilize
it to feed a location.
The only fun combo that can come is the one i posted in this group,
when Gehenna set was released and was about powering a Tomb of
Rameses, combined with transfers TO the vampire and FROM the vampire
(to your pool) to bloat the Tomb and thus influence a high cap vampire
with few pool. If you search my article you'll see that i suggest
doing this after influencing at least 2 vampires out and only for some
pool gain by later using the low-cost high cap vampire to refill with
blood (maybe via GBlood, Voter cap, renewed vigor) and then minion tap
+ Golconda.
LSJ
> On 16 Nov 2004 14:39:46 -0800, emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit
> Svenson) scrawled:
>>Church of the Order of St. Blaise
>> then
>>Fall of the Sabbat
>> then
>>Powerbase: Mexico City
>
> Invincible!
Arson?
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
James Coupe
Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
>Including 1-2 into the fire and 1-2 churces is plain not good enough.
You appear to be trying to win an argument that no-one else was having.
At no point have I suggested that.
Emmit Svenson
> On 16 Nov 2004 14:39:46 -0800, emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit
> Svenson) scrawled:
>
> >Church of the Order of St. Blaise
> >
> > then
> >
> >Fall of the Sabbat
> >
> > then
> >
> >Powerbase: Mexico City
>
> Invincible!
And almost as good as a hunting ground plus a blood doll!
Wouter Kuyper
>
> > Just make a "I BLOCK EVERYTHING, especially when directed at me"-deck,
> > add some small serpents, or have a way to change to serpent and start
> > stealing.
>
> Maybe make use of Kahina and her AUS? Don't forget Extortion to dissuade
> further attempts and Eagle's Sight to keep your prey from getting the
> edge. Why stop at one incredibly sketchy strategy?
Kahina is quite expensive for what she can do...
I think i would just go Tzim with 8 vampires that will do some serious
damage when blocking everything and add 4 small serpents. You could
even add some serpent-allies (i just love those) to counter the daring
the dawns that might come...
>
> > The effect of the Temple is HUGE. If you find a way to use it while
> > denying the drawbacks (burnable, slow and expensive) you are a long
> > way. With the church you do something about the slow and expensive
> > part. You can steal a 1 cap for free at once, you can steal a 5 cap
> > for 4 pool (including the cost for the temple) in 2 turns. Longer if
> > you want it cheaper.
>
> Actually, the Temple is even worse than you thought. You need to have
> more counters on the Temple than the capacity of the vampire you're
> stealing. That means with the Church you could steal Smudge the turn you
> play the Temple, but it'll cost a pool in addition to the 2 pool you have
> to pay for the Temple. If you're going after a 5 cap, it'll take you 3
> turns to get up to 6 counters and the total cost (including 2 pool for the
> Temple) is 5 pool.
>
> On the other hand, stealing Arika would take 6 turns and cost a mere 8
> pool. Ka-ching!
>
Ok, so it is worse than i thought...still think that the effect is
worth trying to make it work, and the church MIGHT do it. it is worth
a try at least.
> > If you can stop the burnaction you are pretty good.
>
> Yeah, that's the trick, isn't it? My suggestion is you put your first
> counter on the part of the card that mentions the (D) action and hope
> everyone forgets. After the game they'll think "why doesn't that great
> card see more play?" Two weeks later you'll burn their Temples at a
> tournament and laugh at them. It's sure to work.
:-)
Still i don't think the burnabilty was the biggest problem with the
card, it was just an add-on problem. It was the slowness and high
cost. Those two are somewhat denied now with the Church.
I play too little games to actually try it out, but please someone,
do:-)
W
salem
scrawled:
>salem wrote:
>> On 16 Nov 2004 14:39:46 -0800, emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit
>> Svenson) scrawled:
>>>Church of the Order of St. Blaise
>>> then
>>>Fall of the Sabbat
>>> then
>>>Powerbase: Mexico City
>>
>> Invincible!
>
>Arson?
No way! Blooding! that'll stop em even playing the fall of the sabbat.
which is good, because if you're playing the combo above and you
accidentally play Fall of the Sabbat before the Order, you won't be
able to play it. crickey!
Kine Dominance/Disputed would be even funnier. cause then their Order
does nothing, while you suck the remaining juice out of Mexico City.
Jyhad_addict
> salem wrote:
> > On 16 Nov 2004 14:39:46 -0800, emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit
> > Svenson) scrawled:
> >>Church of the Order of St. Blaise
> >> then
> >>Fall of the Sabbat
> >> then
> >>Powerbase: Mexico City
> >
> > Invincible!
>
> Arson?
hahahahh, exactly...
Arson, Zoning Board (if church gets zoned, after playing Fall of the
Sabbat, you won't be able to play it again), Rampage, Disputed
Territory, Political Seizure + Thanks for the Donation, Conquest of
Humanity, Arika, i can go on...
sorry guys, but these are the facts...
Jyhad_addict
well, yes.
I had thought of this sometime ago, but forgot it. Thanks for the
reminder.
I have plans using it in a fun-crazy deck featuring:
Tarbaby jack, 10 Using the Advantage, Edge Vitation and 4 low cap
Malks with Madness Network to bleed out of turn just before your turn
to get the edge and bloat with the Using the Advantage.
So, maybe i'll include this in this deck and see how it works out,
as i could block and beat with Tarbaby or some other !nosferatu.
But this could make the deck a "circus", this is how we refer to crazy
decks in Greece. As i have to include 4 Tarbaby, 4 low cap Malks and 4
setites!!!
Jyhad_addict
>
> Yeah, that's the trick, isn't it? My suggestion is you put your first
> counter on the part of the card that mentions the (D) action and hope
> everyone forgets. After the game they'll think "why doesn't that great
> card see more play?" Two weeks later you'll burn their Temples at a
> tournament and laugh at them. It's sure to work.
>
hahahahha, wise strategy.
I'd suggest using a magic marker and "erasing" the part of text on the
card that states that the Temple is burnable. This should do the
trick... :P
James Coupe
You may have missed the fact that they weren't entirely serious. I
think they already knew the facts.
salem
scrawled:
>In message <c6a50f81.04111...@posting.google.com>,
>Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
>>sorry guys, but these are the facts...
>
>You may have missed the fact that they weren't entirely serious. I
>think they already knew the facts.
No way!!1!! I'm going to totally 0wn j00 with my Uber Church Falls In
Mexico deck. watch out EC 2005...or 2006...
ph34r!
Orestes
> > Maybe make use of Kahina and her AUS?
Kanhina also has inferior Necromancy (along with a couple of other
Followers of Set). She could therefore put a Haunt on the Grand Temple
of Set, to dissuade others from attempting to burn it...
Haunt [FN:C2/PG]
Cardtype: Action
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Necromancy
+1 stealth <action>.
[nec] Put this card on a location you control. The controller of this
location can burn this card to cause an action directed at this
location to fail. A location can have only one Haunt.
[NEC] (D) Burn a location that doesn't require Giovanni to play.
Wouter...@yahoo.com
damage to the ones who come and try.
I was thinking, there are Caileandecks around that block everything,
right?
He has obf-pre, so you actually play other cards with your setites as
well.
W
Jyhad_addict
> In message <c6a50f81.04111...@posting.google.com>,
> Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> >Including 1-2 into the fire and 1-2 churces is plain not good enough.
>
> You appear to be trying to win an argument that no-one else was having.
>
> At no point have I suggested that.
i don't like to unecessarily argue, but i thought that you did so by
saying the following, i quote you:
>Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
"You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing.
As
a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much."
Anyway,
George
Jyhad_addict
> In message <c6a50f81.04111...@posting.google.com>,
> Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> >sorry guys, but these are the facts...
>
> You may have missed the fact that they weren't entirely serious. I
> think they already knew the facts.
maybe not, but if indeed i have missed the facts then i wasn't the
only one, LSJ did so as well.
However, how should i know if someone is not serious, when this is not
implied by his posting in some way ?
James Coupe
Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
>i don't like to unecessarily argue, but i thought that you did so by
>saying the following, i quote you:
>
>>Though Nu isn't sabbat... !Gangrel hanging out with Nu?
>
>"You could always try Into the Fire, if you like that sort of thing.
>As
>a trifle, it shouldn't get in the way too much."
Thank you for proving my point.
At no point have I claimed the entirely ludicrous deck set-up you
posited, and your quote shows clearly that I didn't. I did, however,
suggest Into the Fire as a possibility for consideration.
James Coupe
Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
>However, how should i know if someone is not serious, when this is not
>implied by his posting in some way ?
Were it not implied "in some way", how would I have guessed that Salem
might just possible have been joking?
However, there are many useful ways in which such things can be
garnered.
The first is to lurk in groups for some period of time in order to
garner some sense of the conversations, and some sense of who's who.
This can aid you by making you think "Why is someone who is often right,
insightful and humorous (e.g. Salem) claiming something that is patently
ludicrous because with even three seconds thought I can find SEVENTEEN
MILLION ways of taking it apart?" You might then consider that someone
is not being entirely serious as a possibility.
Tomorrow, we will be covering "sarcasm". Please read pages 15 through
28 of the text-book in preparation.
Emmit Svenson
> No way!!1!! I'm going to totally 0wn j00 with my Uber Church Falls In
> Mexico deck. watch out EC 2005...or 2006...
> ph34r!
Other elements for Uber Church Falls:
Gratiano + Free States Rant. Why else would you pack Fall of the
Sabbat? You you could even make him an Anarch Baron, and get 4-5 votes
in every referendum.
Obtenebration Masters + Mind Rape + Descent into Darkness. To
temporarily dispose of Black Hand vampires so's you can play Fall of
the Sabbat. Banishment is a cheap cop-out.
Other Gehenna cards to use: Fall of the Camarilla, Fueled by Heart's
Blood, The New Inquisition, Nightmares Upon Nightmares, Restricted
Vitae, The Slow Withering and Thirst. You'll want some seat-switching
votes too, so you can pick on the player who's hurt most by the global
effects.
How could you possibly lose?
Jyhad_addict
> In message <c6a50f81.04111...@posting.google.com>,
> Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> >However, how should i know if someone is not serious, when this is not
> >implied by his posting in some way ?
>
> Were it not implied "in some way", how would I have guessed that Salem
> might just possible have been joking?
>
>
said "invinsible". I was talking about "Emmit Svenson" who suggested
the combo
and "Vermillian" who can't understand that right now, focusing a deck,
or a certain many-card-combo on the Church does not worth it.
Never spoken about salem (who is mentaly unstable, like me) being
serious.
So, i guess i won't have to attend your next lesson about "sarcasm".
Screaming Vermillian
said "invinsible". I was talking about "Emmit Svenson" who suggested
the combo
and "Vermillian" who can't understand that right now, focusing a deck,
or a certain many-card-combo on the Church does not worth it."
Hmm... I don't recalle that I was trying to make a deck that
exclusively focused on Church. The thread is simply titled "fun with
the church of the order of st blaise". If trying to makle a deck that
exclusively focuses on the church, then by all means, it should be
included here, and I should read about it. However, I'm open to other
avenues of 'fun' with (or in) the church.
~SV
James Coupe
Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> But i wasn't talking about Salem, i knew that salem was joking when
>said "invinsible". I was talking about "Emmit Svenson" who suggested
>the combo
As a combo, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
Sure, it can be taken apart. So can any combo. But I could certainly
see a deck trying it, since it's not without merit.
Emmit wasn't suggesting it as an unstoppable power combo. Hence telling
him what the facts were wasn't really terribly relevant, since he wasn't
suggesting it as something that couldn't be taken apart with effort.
However, if you are referring to the points made by Emmit, one typically
hits "Reply" on his post. (There can be situations where this is
inappropriate, or hard. For instance, your news server may not have
received it due to the vagueries of the Usenet network and complicated
news server architectures, it may have been corrupted in download and so
on.) Hence, following up to Salem without saying anything to indicate
you *aren't* responding to his points typically indicates that you are
responding to him and his points, not Emmit.
Jyhad_addict
by that i meant that you were trying to have fun with focusing to
Church.
Anyway, i think you should stick to my Tomb of Rameses, Church, Info
Highway, transfers forth and back crazy combo i suggested some time
ago.
title of the article "[LSJ] Tomb of Rameses III question" author
"jyhad_addict" may 17 2004.
Have fun...
Jyhad_addict
> In message <c6a50f81.04111...@posting.google.com>,
> Jyhad_addict <geo...@for.auth.gr> writes:
> > But i wasn't talking about Salem, i knew that salem was joking when
> >said "invinsible". I was talking about "Emmit Svenson" who suggested
> >the combo
>
> As a combo, it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion.
>
> Sure, it can be taken apart. So can any combo. But I could certainly
> see a deck trying it, since it's not without merit.
>
> Emmit wasn't suggesting it as an unstoppable power combo. Hence telling
> him what the facts were wasn't really terribly relevant, since he wasn't
> suggesting it as something that couldn't be taken apart with effort.
>
> However, if you are referring to the points made by Emmit, one typically
> hits "Reply" on his post. (There can be situations where this is
> inappropriate, or hard. For instance, your news server may not have
> received it due to the vagueries of the Usenet network and complicated
> news server architectures, it may have been corrupted in download and so
> on.) Hence, following up to Salem without saying anything to indicate
> you *aren't* responding to his points typically indicates that you are
> responding to him and his points, not Emmit.
Yes, i was referring to the combo menttioned by Emmit, as salem was
obviously joking saying "invinsible".
Anyway, now that we have cleared this out, why don't we start
suggesting new locations that could benefit greatly by the use of the
Church ?
and i mean to suggest just for fun, not for real creation by WW.
e.g.
Asylum for the mentaly deranged, Chicago
unique location
During your master phase you may move 1 pool from your pool to this
card
During your Influence phase, burn 1 counter from this card.
When the number of counters on this card reach X, where X the sum of
all in play vampires' capacities, burn the card and the vampires
gaining X pool.
George
Screaming Vermillian
church? What are we talking about here?
You'd never get past one counter with Asylum for the Mentally Deranged:
Chicago. Is it meant to be a one cap nuke (assuming you meant to blow
up the vampires whose capacity is X or less...)?
~SV