2 rules Q's
Malone
Impersonation to go Baali, then next turn moves Derange to Basir.
What clan is Basir now, Baali or Malkavian Antitribu?
2) Zhenga has Vicissitude and 6 blood. I have 7x Corrupt
Construction in hand and the next sixty cards in my library are
Corrupt Construction. She plays Corrupt Construction and declares
X=6, I replace the CC, there's no block. The CC enters play and I
remove from the game the seven CCs in my hand, giving this CC 8 life.
I draw seven cards.
Zhenga now may recruit six additional allies. Does she do so one at a
time, giving me six more eight-lived CCs just like the first? If not,
please explain precisely and explicitly the rules determining the
sequencing.
LSJ
> 1) Midget plays Derange on Frederick the Weak. Frederick plays Clan
> Impersonation to go Baali, then next turn moves Derange to Basir.
> What clan is Basir now, Baali or Malkavian Antitribu?
Malkavian antitribu. The clan is set when the card enters play.
> 2) Zhenga has Vicissitude and 6 blood. I have 7x Corrupt
> Construction in hand and the next sixty cards in my library are
> Corrupt Construction. She plays Corrupt Construction and declares
> X=6, I replace the CC, there's no block. The CC enters play and I
> remove from the game the seven CCs in my hand, giving this CC 8 life.
OK.
> I draw seven cards.
Not yet. First you handle Zhenga's action-succeeds part, too.
> Zhenga now may recruit six additional allies. Does she do so one at a
> time, giving me six more eight-lived CCs just like the first? If not,
> please explain precisely and explicitly the rules determining the
> sequencing.
Not.
Both the retainers Zhenga's bonus allows and the constructions themselves are
restricted to cards in hand (and in ash heap in the case of the constructions).
So she can pay 6 for 6 additional constructions (for a total of 7 counting the
one that was played to start the action), one of which can use the remaining
construction to get 1 additional life.
Or she can forgo all of the additional constructions and you can use all seven
to have the one CC with 8 life.
Or some other mix. You'll end up with a total of eight life on the
constructions(s) (or fewer, if you decide to withhold some of the CC's in your
hand), assuming you don't use any retainers or minions from your ash heap.
Malone
I mean, I recognize that "from your hand" is limiting text, not
reminder text. (For the purpose of this discussion, let's assume
there are no CC in the ash heap.) And I gather from what you say that
Zhenga's "if the action succeeds" indicates that her special reads my
hand at the moment the recruit action goes unblocked, not at some
other point during or after its resolution.
OK, so I start my turn with CCs {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} in hand. Zhenga plays
{0} to announce the recruit action at X=6, and replaces it with {7}.
The action succeeds, so her special reads my hand for up to six
additional allies, I choose {1,2,3,4,5,6} to be recruited.
Now the action resolves and {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} enter play. Their text
simultaneously reads my hand for allies to remove from the game. From
the rulebook, "The number of cards in your hand should always match
your hand size (less any cards you are not replacing until later)."
None of the cards involved here have any DNR clause, so the CCs that
just entered play will read my *seven-card* hand. They can't be
reading themselves as still in my hand, so I must have drawn {8, 9,
10, 11, 12 13} to join {7} in my hand. Thus I have seven CCs to
remove from the game to give each of the recruited ones an additional
life.
Your answer above is that the recruited CCs will read my hand as
{1,2,3,4,5,6,7} -- but CC text says "when [they] enter play". If they
enter play they're not in my hand.
LSJ
> You've told me *what* happens in scenario 2, but not *why*.
You should quote scenario 2 for context.
Anyway, the answer indicated the why.
> I mean, I recognize that "from your hand" is limiting text, not
> reminder text. (For the purpose of this discussion, let's assume
> there are no CC in the ash heap.) And I gather from what you say that
> Zhenga's "if the action succeeds" indicates that her special reads my
> hand at the moment the recruit action goes unblocked, not at some
> other point during or after its resolution.
>
> OK, so I start my turn with CCs {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} in hand. Zhenga plays
> {0} to announce the recruit action at X=6, and replaces it with {7}.
> The action succeeds, so her special reads my hand for up to six
> additional allies, I choose {1,2,3,4,5,6} to be recruited.
>
> Now the action resolves and {0,1,2,3,4,5,6} enter play. Their text
> simultaneously reads my hand for allies to remove from the game. From
> the rulebook, "The number of cards in your hand should always match
> your hand size (less any cards you are not replacing until later)."
See also the rules on canceling cards "as played".
> None of the cards involved here have any DNR clause, so the CCs that
> just entered play will read my *seven-card* hand. They can't be
> reading themselves as still in my hand, so I must have drawn {8, 9,
> 10, 11, 12 13} to join {7} in my hand. Thus I have seven CCs to
> remove from the game to give each of the recruited ones an additional
> life.
A fine suggestion, but not the official one.
> Your answer above is that the recruited CCs will read my hand as
> {1,2,3,4,5,6,7} -- but CC text says "when [they] enter play". If they
> enter play they're not in my hand.
True. But they must leave your hand to enter play. So when they enter play, you
have not yet drawn replacements.