Ghoul Retainer Q [LSJ]
Xian
A minion had a few (3 I believe) Ghoul Retainers on it. Combat inevitably
ensued. The minion with the retainers had 2 weapons, one that the vampire
used, and another weapon that all three Ghoul Retainers used. The opposing
minion dodged.
Assuming that the weapon strikes were valid at whatever range the combat is
occuring:
*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all
use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it?
*If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the first minion's strike, but he
cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct? Their damage is
quasi-environmental, or something?
Xian
--
I'd tell the world and save my soul, But rain falls down and I feel cold.
A cold that sleeps within my heart, It tears the earth and sun apart.
--_Shellshock_, New Order
www.waste.org/~xian
James Coupe
<xi...@waste.org> writes
>*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all
>use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it?
No. Derek Ray, I believed, has tried to "abuse" this with multiple
Ghoul Retaines and Flamethrowers and still not managed something
brilliant. Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting now though.
>*If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the first minion's strike, but he
>cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct? Their damage is
>quasi-environmental, or something?
There damage is figured like a Wolf Companion or whatever. Preventable,
but not with "all damage from a strike".
--
James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D
"It's hard to carry on when you feel all alone. Now I've swung back down
again, it's worse than it was before. If I hadn't seen such riches I could
live with being poor." - James, "Sit Down"
The Lasombra
"Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote:
> Something that came up this weekend:
>
> A minion had a few (3 I believe) Ghoul Retainers on it. Combat
> inevitably ensued. The minion with the retainers had 2 weapons,
> one that the vampire used, and another weapon that all three Ghoul
> Retainers used. The opposing minion dodged.
Note on answer that follows: All retainers following the rulings
for Wolf Companion, as appropriate.
> Assuming that the weapon strikes were valid at whatever range
> the combat is occuring:
>
> *Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may
> they all use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not
> using it?
They may all use the same weapon at the same time.
Thank Tom Wylie.
From http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html :
Ghoul Retainer - Retainer (2)
Read as "Each round of combat, Ghoul uses hands for 1 damage or a
weapon of the employing minion that the minion is not presently using."
[RTR 19941109]
More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same
weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time. [TOM 19950921]
> *If the opposing minion dodges, he avoids the minion's strike,
> but he cannot dodge the retainers' strikes, correct?
Retainers don't get strikes. They do damage.
This damage will not be avoided by dodge or prevented by
"Card: Prevent Damage From a Strike".
Damage from retainers can never be dodged.
"The damage is not a strike, so cannot be prevented by
a dodge. [RTR 19941109] "
Also, the Ghoul Retainer will not do damage again that round
with the weapon if their controller gets extra strikes.
The only way to avoid the damage is Strike: Combat Ends,
and being at the wrong range for the damage done by the retianer.
> Their damage is quasi-environmental, or something?
Or something.
Environmental damage is not mentioned in the rules at all.
It is simply a description of damage that does not come from
the minion even though it may come from cards played on
or by the minion.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://lasombra.tripod.com
http://legbiter.tripod.com
http://vekn_clans.tripod.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Derek Ray
wrote:
>In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, Xian
><xi...@waste.org> writes
>>*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they all
>>use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it?
>
>No. Derek Ray, I believed, has tried to "abuse" this with multiple
>Ghoul Retaines and Flamethrowers and still not managed something
>brilliant. Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting now though.
Actually, that wasn't me (surprisingly, since it sounds like something
i'd try. I think it's the only-2 Ghoul Retainers I own). Pat
Ricochet, however, has tried to get anything at ALL to happen with
multiple Ghoul Retainers, and they go boom usually. A lot of times
it's difficult to get anything to happen with INDIVIDUAL Ghoul
Retainers, from what I can tell when he plays the deck/decks.
Telepathic Tracking might make it interesting, but I'm not going to
hold my breath. Pat's last effort, I believe, was getting a Retainer
or two and Disguised Weaponing the toy out; it suffers from the usual
problem with toys, which is that people run away from them and you
have to figure out how to get into combat once you have the stinking
things all ladled up onto a minion, and then you have to figure out
how to oust someone with all that attached. Too many moving parts.
Pat? :)
-- Derek
Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- C. Darwin, 1871
Pat Ricochet
Actually, it was RPG Launchers and either Torment the Soul or SNS/DB for
the agg on top. 2nd round, lots of "moving parts," as Derek said, etc. I
was able to use Virgil burning the Ghoul Retainers and/or Compel the Spirit
and/or Ambrosius in the Compel the Spirit version, but the SNS/DB with
Jeeves the Ghoul holding your RPG for you took only cel/obf, and so worked
better, but cost more.
As a testament to their sum victory of 0 VPs, however, both are
dismantled, and I'm not posting *either* deck to the V:TES Atlanta site. =)
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
Robert Goudie
news:p93u0XFU...@obeah.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3ZfZ5.4386$sZ4.4...@news.uswest.net>, Xian
> <xi...@waste.org> writes
> >*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they
all
> >use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it?
>
> No.
From the official rulings and errata:
More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same
weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time. [TOM 19950921]
--
Robert Goudie
Chairman, V:EKN
rob...@vtesinla.org
Halcyan 2
>
>Or something.
>Environmental damage is not mentioned in the rules at all.
>It is simply a description of damage that does not come from
>the minion even though it may come from cards played on
>or by the minion.
Is retainer damage done one at a time or simultaneously? (Or does it depend on
the controller?) In the case of the Flamethrower, would you send the vampire to
torpor (and combat ends) as soon as one Retainer does the 2R agg, or can your
three Retainers simultaneously do 6R agg?
Halcyan 2
LSJ
Retainer damage is done during the normal strike resolution phase.
Other "during strike resolution" effects are also done during normal
strike resolution (cf. Carrion Crows).
All of these effects are simultaeous with one another.
If you make a normal (as opposed to First Strike) strike, then all
of those effects are resolved simultaenously with the strike, as
well.
The 3 Ghouls could use the Flamethrower to deal 6R agg (plus whatever
damage your strike does).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
James Coupe
Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> writes
>> >*Do the Ghoul Retainers each have to use a different weapon, or may they
>all
>> >use the same weapon, as long as the employing minion is not using it?
>>
>> No.
>
>From the official rulings and errata:
>
>More than one Ghoul Retainer employed by a Minion could "use" the same
>weapon (that the Minion is not using) at the same time.
My apologies. The "no" was meant as a "no" to "Do the Ghoul retainers
each have to use a different weapon....?" My mistake, sorry.