Can 'dodge' be used to avoid Thaumaturgy?
ile...@my-dejanews.com
I would want to know if cards that dodge as a strike can be used to avoid
Thaumaturgy 'strike' cards (i.e. 'Burst of Sunlight' or 'Cauldron of Blood').
Thanks in advance,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Ivan Lerth
I would want to know if cards that 'dodge' as a strike can be used to avoid
Thaumaturgy 'strike' cards (i.e. 'Burst of Sunlight', 'Cauldron of Blood')
Thanks in advance,
--
(Fantasy Library) http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/1341/amazon
Ivan Lerth
James Coupe
writes
>Hello,
>
>I would want to know if cards that dodge as a strike can be used to avoid
They're strikes. You dodge strikes with a Dodge. Why wouldn't you be
able to avoid these strikes with a Dodge?
(Short answer, yes.)
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk
LSJ
> I would want to know if cards that 'dodge' as a strike can be used to avoid
Dodge can be used to avoid any strike, Thaumaturgy or no.
(Unless an effect says otherwise - like Scorpion Sting.)
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
Robert C Campbell Jr
LSJ wrote in message <7gk25l$nt6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Ivan Lerth <ile...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>> I would want to know if cards that 'dodge' as a strike can be used to
avoid
>> Thaumaturgy 'strike' cards (i.e. 'Burst of Sunlight', 'Cauldron of
Blood')
>
>Dodge can be used to avoid any strike, Thaumaturgy or no.
>(Unless an effect says otherwise - like Scorpion Sting.)
I've been told that Thaumaturgy steals work on allies.
WHY? Allies don't have blood, they have life. If I can't taste the vitae,
why should I be able to steal it?
LSJ
> I've been told that Thaumaturgy steals work on allies.
Correct, per rulebook text [6.4.5].
> WHY? Allies don't have blood, they have life. If I can't taste the vitae,
> why should I be able to steal it?
Taste of Vitae has explicit card text ("opposing vampire").
It is this way because it was designed this way.
(See Jyhad rulebook, 15.3)
Conceptually, you may visualize a mortal's blood as too thin or weak
to be of any use to a vampire outside the vessel (spilled blood,
that is). If the vampire takes the blood directly, however, as per
hunting, Theft of Vitae, etc., then it is still "potent".
Halcyan 2
excess blood on a vampire is removed immediately. I have always thought that
it was removed at the end of the turn (that's what it says in the old Jyhad
rules at least, though it might have changed). Also, are all the "damage"'s of
allies "hand damage." For example, does an Outcast Mage do 2R hand damage? If
so, it can be used with Lucky Blow, right? And then would the Lucky Blow only
do an extra damage at close range? Would Lazarus be doing 1R hand damage as
well. And if the 2R isn't hand damage, then doesn't that make Outcast Mage's
and Thadius Zho dead meat for Immortal Grapple's? Thanks.
Halcyan 2
The Lasombra
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote:
> Also, are all the "damage"'s of allies' "hand damage"?
No.
If a minion only does X ranged damage then it has no hand damage.
It can use a Lucky Blow to strike for 1 though.
> For example, does an Outcast Mage do 2R hand damage?
No.
> If so, it can be used with Lucky Blow, right?
No. But the Outcast Mage can use Lucky Blow to strike for one.
> And then would the Lucky Blow only do an extra damage at close range?
Lucky Blow only does damage at close range.
> Would Lazarus be doing 1R hand damage as well.
No. Lazarus may strike for 1R damage or for 1 hand damage.
They do not combine as they are different types of strikes.
>And if the 2R isn't hand damage, then doesn't that make Outcast Mage's
> and Thadius Zho dead meat for Immortal Grapple's?
Yes it does. Mortals should not grapple with immortals
if at all they can help it.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra
LSJ
>
> This is slightly off-topic but...about stolen blood, I heard from someone that
> excess blood on a vampire is removed immediately. I have always thought that
Excess bleed (regardless of source) always drains off immediately, yes.
> it was removed at the end of the turn (that's what it says in the old Jyhad
> rules at least, though it might have changed). Also, are all the "damage"'s of
It has been changed, yes.
> allies "hand damage." For example, does an Outcast Mage do 2R hand damage? If
Only the ones that are non-ranged. Ranged strikes are never hand strikes.
* Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based
on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged
damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 970224]
He does 2R damage as a strike, which is not a hand strikes and therefore
the damage dealt is not "hand damage".
> so, it can be used with Lucky Blow, right? And then would the Lucky Blow only
> do an extra damage at close range? Would Lazarus be doing 1R hand damage as
No. He has zero "strength" (hand damage), so could use Lucky Blow to
strike with his hands and do strength+1 (total of 1) hand damage (at
close range.
> well. And if the 2R isn't hand damage, then doesn't that make Outcast Mage's
Lazarus, a vampire, has a default strength of 1. He can strike with his
hands for 1, or he can use his special ability to strike for 1R. The latter
is not a hand strike.
> and Thadius Zho dead meat for Immortal Grapple's? Thanks.
The Mage, yes.
Derek S. Ray
<TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>And if the 2R isn't hand damage, then doesn't that make Outcast Mage's
>> and Thadius Zho dead meat for Immortal Grapple's?
>
>Yes it does. Mortals should not grapple with immortals
>if at all they can help it.
Except for Muddles, who apparently is an orang-outan. :)
-- Derek
(replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)
Patrick Harris
Ape or not, he still shouldn't tangle with the immortals. One dodge with an
additional strike, prevent damage or maneuver (if he only has a short-range
strike) and he's a goner. Or even if you had a vamp with enough blood to
just take the shot (assuming it's not aggravated).
p.
Drunken
: Hello,
: I would want to know if cards that dodge as a strike can be used to avoid
: Thaumaturgy 'strike' cards (i.e. 'Burst of Sunlight' or 'Cauldron of Blood').
Thaumaturgy strikes are no diffrent in general from any other strikes.
However acording to a Wizards of the Coast clarification dodging 'Burst of
Sunlight' does not prevent the damage. This sort of makes sense as it is
probably a large area effect, and it does say it damages all vampires in
combat and a vampire that has dodged is still in combat.
Check out other Ruling/Clarifications/Eratta at:
http://www.deckserver.net/cgi-deckserver/rulemonger/rulings
: Thanks in advance,
No problem.
--
Duncan
Richard Zopf
Drunken wrote in message <7gpb1u$3h6$1...@sirius.dur.ac.uk>...
>ile...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>: Hello,
>
>: I would want to know if cards that dodge as a strike can be used to avoid
>: Thaumaturgy 'strike' cards (i.e. 'Burst of Sunlight' or 'Cauldron of
Blood').
>
>Thaumaturgy strikes are no diffrent in general from any other strikes.
>However acording to a Wizards of the Coast clarification dodging 'Burst of
>Sunlight' does not prevent the damage. This sort of makes sense as it is
>probably a large area effect, and it does say it damages all vampires in
>combat and a vampire that has dodged is still in combat.
>
when _selecting_ Burst of Sunlight as a strike. If the opposing vampire
dodges, the vampire who selected BoS still takes the self-inflicted damage
in the strike resolution phase.
Regards,
R. David Zopf
Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)
LSJ
> However acording to a Wizards of the Coast clarification dodging 'Burst of
> Sunlight' does not prevent the damage. This sort of makes sense as it is
> probably a large area effect, and it does say it damages all vampires in
> combat and a vampire that has dodged is still in combat.
Dodge protects the dodger, as normal.
The ruling is that the fact that even if the opponent dodges, the
vampire that played the Burst of Sunlight still takes damage (that
is, his opponent's dodge doesn't cancel *all* of the strike's
effect - it just cancels the effect of the strike on the dodger).
Derek S. Ray
Well, yes. But I've just always found it horribly amusing that
Muddles can beat up weenie potence combateers. (need a 4-cap or
better, and those are the HIGH end of the weenie POT crypt. =)
Philippe Richer
>Drunken wrote:
>> However acording to a Wizards of the Coast clarification dodging 'Burst of
>> Sunlight' does not prevent the damage. This sort of makes sense as it is
>> probably a large area effect, and it does say it damages all vampires in
>> combat and a vampire that has dodged is still in combat.
>
>Dodge protects the dodger, as normal.
>
>The ruling is that the fact that even if the opponent dodges, the
>vampire that played the Burst of Sunlight still takes damage (that
>is, his opponent's dodge doesn't cancel *all* of the strike's
>effect - it just cancels the effect of the strike on the dodger).
Mmm, my question with Thaum has always been what happens if a vamp first
dodges a Blood Fury, and then tries to blur and shoot with his gun. What
does happen? Can he do it? Can he dodge the secondary effect of the strike?
When I wrote Wizards, someone wrote back saying no. But in truth, his
answer didn't even include the additional strikes. So I was still left
wondering.
Bleu
LSJ
> LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote:
> >Drunken wrote:
> >> However acording to a Wizards of the Coast clarification dodging 'Burst of
> >> Sunlight' does not prevent the damage. This sort of makes sense as it is
> >> probably a large area effect, and it does say it damages all vampires in
> >> combat and a vampire that has dodged is still in combat.
> >
> >Dodge protects the dodger, as normal.
> >
> >The ruling is that the fact that even if the opponent dodges, the
> >vampire that played the Burst of Sunlight still takes damage (that
> >is, his opponent's dodge doesn't cancel *all* of the strike's
> >effect - it just cancels the effect of the strike on the dodger).
>
> Mmm, my question with Thaum has always been what happens if a vamp first
> dodges a Blood Fury, and then tries to blur and shoot with his gun. What
> does happen? Can he do it? Can he dodge the secondary effect of the strike?
He shoots successfully.
Yes.
He dodges all the strike's effects. None of the effects are "secondary".
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------