[DECK] Trap+undead persistance+molotov
gabusanvtes
was posted here before. I thought this deck myself, althought the
combination of undead persistence and molotov is so obvious, i doubt
the design will be any original.
What I like about the following deck is that you can brutally beat a
lot of direct combat decks out there, and its rather easy to build
since it uses very few rare cards, most of 'em optional. Its kinda
suicidal, but fun in his own way.
The core of the deck is as follows:
29X Trap
1X No escape
15X Skin of night
15X Undead persistence
15X Molotov cocktail
10X Haven uncovered
The remaining 5 cards can be anything you feel might help the core
design. I am currently using: Specialization (x2), Dreams of the
sphinx, information highway and Power base: Montreal. You can also try
Fame, Humanitas or Veil of darkness (that last one not tested yet, but
should be fun) instead of any of these. Anyway, you should put in at
least 1 Specialization if you have it (works wonders, Undead
Persistence is hard to discard).
Any suggestion is welcome.
All Vampires are capacity <4 and have basic fortitude, with one
exception. I provide a list of em at the end of the post.
The deck seems simple, but it can involve a lot of strategy, diplomacy
and bullying to play it right. Since you can easly down an inner
circle with a 1 capacity vampire, this deck isperfect to humilliate
combat decks who think themselves unbeatable.
How it works:
You bring as many vampires as you can into the table, who bleed all
the time with a "come one, block me" attitude. When you get a haven
uncovered, put in on the most dangerous vampire out there (usually on
your predator) and charge. The combat goes like this:
1) If you think the opponent might have combat ends, play just two
traps. Use coctail molotov on first round and toss it on second round
to force the him to use it. Go to step 5.
2) If he has no combat ends, play traps until you get another haven
uncovered or master card for the next turn.
3) The traps keep the fight until vampire is sent to torpor. Play
undead persistence to keep fightining beyond that. Use skin of night
to discard, protect you from aggravated hits and keep the trap
working.
4) Once the opponent is down to zero blood, play molotov coctail and
go for the kill. If he dodges or prevent the damage from it, play
another until it scores a clear hit, hopefully burning the vampire
(the rats often prevent just 1 damage to go to torpor and end combat).
You can keep playing molotovs to dicard em if needed.
5) If opponent survived, repeat with another vampire until it falls.
If he simply went to torpor, you might consider sacrificing one
vampire to diablerice it.
Once the vampire is destroyed, focus in rescuing your vampires from
torpor. They wont last long there, all the table hates you by now.
The vampire list: Vedel Esbreno, Sarah Raines, Lana Butcher, Lolita,
Lazar Dobrescu, Tom, March Halcyon (X2), Muse, Juan Cali, Miriam
Benyona, Bothwell. Anything with low capacity and basic fortitude
works.
Fredrik Appelberg
> Sorry in advance if the deck in its concept resembles something that
> was posted here before. I thought this deck myself, althought the
> combination of undead persistence and molotov is so obvious, i doubt
> the design will be any original.
>
> What I like about the following deck is that you can brutally beat a
> lot of direct combat decks out there, and its rather easy to build
> since it uses very few rare cards, most of 'em optional. Its kinda
> suicidal, but fun in his own way.
>
> The core of the deck is as follows:
>
> 29X Trap
> 1X No escape
> 15X Skin of night
> 15X Undead persistence
> 15X Molotov cocktail
> 10X Haven uncovered
>
> The remaining 5 cards can be anything you feel might help the core
> design. I am currently using: Specialization (x2), Dreams of the
> sphinx, information highway and Power base: Montreal. You can also try
> Fame, Humanitas or Veil of darkness (that last one not tested yet, but
> should be fun) instead of any of these. Anyway, you should put in at
> least 1 Specialization if you have it (works wonders, Undead
> Persistence is hard to discard).
>
> Any suggestion is welcome.
Hi there,
Speaking as someone who enjoys playing mono-fortitude Trap/UP decks just
to see the pained expression on my preys face, I felt I had to chip in
here. :)
Trap/UP will often screw other combat decks if they can't press to end
combat. The problem is when you face S:CE, as your opponent will most
likely wait until you're on your way to torpor before playing it. One
way of dealing with it is swarming the target with weenies until he's
out of Majesty, but it's a quite expensive option.
Another problem is that while most other decks gather resources and
build themselves a position during the game, you will just spend
everything as fast as you get it. You have few permanents, no pool gain
to speak of. Blood Dolls won't cut it in this kind of deck since your
dolled minions will be the ones your opponent are the most likely to
block and beat into torpor.
I attempted to solve this by dragging everyone else down to my level: I
played a lot of Anarch Revolts to speed things up and disrupt the
building phase for everyone. Often, I would just spend 10-12 pool on
vampires and let the ARs eat the rest. It worked to some degree as I
would often get 1 VP but rarely won any games.
It's also worth mentioning that there is one single card that will screw
you totally: Aranthebes the Immortal. If your prey puts it in play, you
CANNOT win unless someone else feels benevolent enough to remove it for
you. This will seldom happen, though... :)
Hope this helps,
-- Fredrik
PS. I think you will have better luck with a group 1/2 crypt, as you
will have access to Giuliano Vincenzi, Rufina Soledad and Uriah Winter
(who actually fits in this deck). DS
gabusanvtes
> Trap/UP will often screw other combat decks if they can't press to end
> combat. The problem is when you face S:CE, as your opponent will most
> likely wait until you're on your way to torpor before playing it. One
> way of dealing with it is swarming the target with weenies until he's
> out of Majesty, but it's a quite expensive option.
Combat against a "Combat ends" user goes like this: you draw the
molotov coctail in the first round. opponent hits you for 1 (a "combat
end" user rarely hits for more). Next round, you toss the coctail. He
ends the combat. You only lose 1 blood, and the opponent sometimes
loses 1 blood too (if the combat ends was a majesty). Not that
expensive. If he goes to torpor with the bottle hit, i diablerize him
in torpor. I dont mind losing a 1-3 capacity vampire if the opponent
burns loaded with blood.
> You have few permanents, no pool gain
> to speak of. Blood Dolls won't cut it in this kind of deck since your
> dolled minions will be the ones your opponent are the most likely to
> block and beat into torpor.
True, your vampires can't have any permanent. But please notice
specialization provides you 1 blood per turn, and it even helps you
avoid bottle-necks. If you put 2 in the deck, its not that hard to get
one after a few turns. And Powerbase montreal fits nicely. Since you
have many vampires, you dont mind spending one of their actions to
retrieve it (and pity the fool who tries to block you). Two cards
providing blood each turn aint too shabby.
> It's also worth mentioning that there is one single card that will screw
> you totally: Aranthebes the Immortal. If your prey puts it in play, you
> CANNOT win unless someone else feels benevolent enough to remove it for
> you. This will seldom happen, though... :)
Actually there are several cards that can screw this deck badly.
Aranthebes is one of them, but please notice that Miriam Benyona is a
5 capacity vampire. She can remove Aranthebes, so there is hope.
> PS. I think you will have better luck with a group 1/2 crypt, as you
> will have access to Giuliano Vincenzi, Rufina Soledad and Uriah Winter
> (who actually fits in this deck).
I think i would have to put in more repeated vampires than i have now.
Do you think that would be better design-wise?
Fredrik Appelberg
> Fredrik Appelberg <fre...@mulli.nu> wrote in message news:<2inoetF...@uni-berlin.de>...
>
>>Trap/UP will often screw other combat decks if they can't press to end
>>combat. The problem is when you face S:CE, as your opponent will most
>>likely wait until you're on your way to torpor before playing it. One
>>way of dealing with it is swarming the target with weenies until he's
>>out of Majesty, but it's a quite expensive option.
>
>
> Combat against a "Combat ends" user goes like this: you draw the
> molotov coctail in the first round. opponent hits you for 1 (a "combat
> end" user rarely hits for more). Next round, you toss the coctail. He
> ends the combat. You only lose 1 blood, and the opponent sometimes
> loses 1 blood too (if the combat ends was a majesty). Not that
> expensive. If he goes to torpor with the bottle hit, i diablerize him
> in torpor. I dont mind losing a 1-3 capacity vampire if the opponent
> burns loaded with blood.
Ok, if it works for you, then I won't argue :)
Just one question: how do you win? You have a maximum of ten rushes per
game (the Haven Uncovereds); say that half of those will result in
another vampire being burned/torporized (along with your guy). So you
can kill five other vampires, but how do you get your VPs? Sure, you can
bleed for one a lot (and no one will block you), but how do you *oust*?
>>You have few permanents, no pool gain
>>to speak of. Blood Dolls won't cut it in this kind of deck since your
>>dolled minions will be the ones your opponent are the most likely to
>>block and beat into torpor.
>
>
> True, your vampires can't have any permanent. But please notice
> specialization provides you 1 blood per turn, and it even helps you
> avoid bottle-necks. If you put 2 in the deck, its not that hard to get
> one after a few turns. And Powerbase montreal fits nicely. Since you
> have many vampires, you dont mind spending one of their actions to
> retrieve it (and pity the fool who tries to block you). Two cards
> providing blood each turn aint too shabby.
True. I was playing my deck before Specialization was introduced, but I
think it really shines in decks like these.
> Actually there are several cards that can screw this deck badly.
> Aranthebes is one of them, but please notice that Miriam Benyona is a
> 5 capacity vampire. She can remove Aranthebes, so there is hope.
Ah, I missed her. Don't have a lot of Bloodlines so I was unfamiliar
with her specials. She seems right for this deck but perhaps a bit costly.
>>PS. I think you will have better luck with a group 1/2 crypt, as you
>>will have access to Giuliano Vincenzi, Rufina Soledad and Uriah Winter
>>(who actually fits in this deck).
>
> I think i would have to put in more repeated vampires than i have now.
> Do you think that would be better design-wise?
No worries, there are 13 vamps with inferior fortitude at cap 3 or less
in group 1/2. You have two 1-caps and two 2-caps, so you average crypt
size will be smaller than if you go 2/3.
Cheers,
-- Fredrik
UniqueMaster
"gabusanvtes" <gpa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2687136c.0406...@posting.google.com...
> Sorry in advance if the deck in its concept resembles something that
> was posted here before. I thought this deck myself, althought the
> combination of undead persistence and molotov is so obvious, i doubt
> the design will be any original.
>
> What I like about the following deck is that you can brutally beat a
> lot of direct combat decks out there, and its rather easy to build
> since it uses very few rare cards, most of 'em optional. Its kinda
> suicidal, but fun in his own way.
>
> The core of the deck is as follows:
>
> 29X Trap
> 1X No escape
> 15X Skin of night
> 15X Undead persistence
> 15X Molotov cocktail
> 10X Haven uncovered
The core of this deck seems to be illegal, as there is no VTES card named
"No escape".
A similar card, "No Exit", will be available in the Sartre expansion next
year.
--
Mike Ooi
"You have left the world. Click to continue."
Fredrik Appelberg
> Just one question: how do you win? You have a maximum of ten rushes per
> game (the Haven Uncovereds); say that half of those will result in
> another vampire being burned/torporized (along with your guy). So you
> can kill five other vampires, but how do you get your VPs? Sure, you can
> bleed for one a lot (and no one will block you), but how do you *oust*?
Gah! Brainfart. What I meant was: you can rush a maximum of ten minions
per game, and only one per turn as the HU is your only rush.
-- Fredrik
gabusanvtes
> The core of this deck seems to be illegal, as there is no VTES card named
> "No escape".
Oops. Sorry about that. I meant "Dead end alley". It provides a press.
I keep it in my hand until an opponent tries to cancel the 2-3 traps I
played. Its a nice surprise.
Emile Bosman
> >
> > 29X Trap
> > 1X No escape
> > 15X Skin of night
> > 15X Undead persistence
> > 15X Molotov cocktail
> > 10X Haven uncovered
>
> The core of this deck seems to be illegal, as there is no VTES card named
> "No escape".
>
> A similar card, "No Exit", will be available in the Sartre expansion next
> year.
Smart ass.
As for the deck I'd go for a combination of fort and dom since there
are a lot of small minions out there who have both for and dom you can
add bleed and bounce to this deck would make it a lot more
competitive.
I'd change you're core to something like this.
20 Trap
11 Skin of night
15 Undead Persistence
12 Molotov Cocktail
10 Haven Uncovered
8 Deflection
9 Conditioning
You can still put in 5 extra cards which could be
2 Fame
2 Specialisation
Emile
"We are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a msuhroom"
gabusanvtes
> game (the Haven Uncovereds); say that half of those will result in
> another vampire being burned/torporized (along with your guy). So you
> can kill five other vampires, but how do you get your VPs? Sure, you can
> bleed for one a lot (and no one will block you), but how do you *oust*?
Well, that is the tricky part. In my tests, this deck works best
against 2 opponents (we play 90 cards decks anyway with a 3 players
format). I usually try to make deals with my predator, as in "Its my
master phase. Make your choice: your biggest vampire dies now, or he
stops bleeding me for the rest of the game and I play a haven
uncovered on my prey". Its not that hard to get 1 victory point making
many bleeds of 1, but not much else.
Somtimes I try using fame, but next i want to try the "veil of
darkness". Seems to fit nicely, since this deck is almost not affected
by it.
> Ah, I missed her. Don't have a lot of Bloodlines so I was unfamiliar
> with her specials. She seems right for this deck but perhaps a bit costly.
Yeah, it really hurts getting her out. The real problem is if she gets
blocked before having the chance to spread her blood among the other
vampires. Rescuing cheap is great, but its also nice to put 1 blood in
an empty vampire. Allows you to make a bleed/attack that would have
been otherwise be wasted in a hunt action.
> >>PS. I think you will have better luck with a group 1/2 crypt, as you
> >>will have access to Giuliano Vincenzi, Rufina Soledad and Uriah Winter
> >>(who actually fits in this deck).
> >
> > I think i would have to put in more repeated vampires than i have now.
> > Do you think that would be better design-wise?
>
> No worries, there are 13 vamps with inferior fortitude at cap 3 or less
> in group 1/2. You have two 1-caps and two 2-caps, so you average crypt
> size will be smaller than if you go 2/3.
Hey, you are right! I'll try it out, althought some of the type 1
vampire i'll have to borrow from my friends.
RavATwoFaces
> year.
i think he has mistaken a Rage Card for a V:TES one.
And the V:TES he is thinking is: Dead-End Alley.
For the cards that you can add to the deck (against S:CE), try with
Chiram's Hold... for a majesty your opponent has to pay 2 blood.
I've played a similar conpet deck with Daughters of Cacophony at a
storyline... it's a funny deck and the molotov cocktail is a good
add-on!
Cheers!
RavATwoFaces
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> For the cards that you can add to the deck (against S:CE), try with
> Chiram's Hold... for a majesty your opponent has to pay 2 blood.
>
2 blood Majesty is still well worth it most of the time. 1 blood
Diversion, on the other hand...
Saaristo
>
> The core of this deck seems to be illegal, as there is no VTES card named
> "No escape".
>
> A similar card, "No Exit", will be available in the Sartre expansion next
> year.
funny. smilie.
I believe the original poster was referring to a card that has a
picture of wall in it, with graffitti that says "No Escape". Its one
of the disciplineless presses.
No Escape would be a good name for a card though. has a nice hopeless
ring to it.
gabusanvtes
> are a lot of small minions out there who have both for and dom you can
> add bleed and bounce to this deck would make it a lot more
> competitive.
> I'd change you're core to something like this.
>
> 20 Trap
> 11 Skin of night
> 15 Undead Persistence
> 12 Molotov Cocktail
> 10 Haven Uncovered
> 8 Deflection
> 9 Conditioning
>
> You can still put in 5 extra cards which could be
> 2 Fame
> 2 Specialisation
>
> Emile
> "We are an ape with a symbiotic relationship to a msuhroom"
Well, thats certainly an interesting variant to try. However, vampires
would be in the 4-5 cap range, making undead persistence a far less
attractive proposition as a regular combat card. Maybe some "tribute
to the master" might help save that valuable blood? I could put 4-5
vampires in play, drain em a bit with tribute, and then start the
serious fighting? I gotta think about that.