Best combat discipline found with Aus
librarian
stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I
am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt.
I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL
Guns might have possibilities.
AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
Other suggestions?
--
Super Fun Cards
http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/
auct...@superfuncards.com
Frederick Scott
news:LTPnj.41409$Wt7....@newsfe14.phx...
> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1
> stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
Efficient: play with Obeah and steal their minions with Spirit
Marionette. It's amazing how many things your prey will find
to do with his minions once he sees someone stolen, robbed of
his blood and equipment (using Heidelburg) and involuntarily
playing Daring the Dawn at inferior (use Fortitude skill cards
if necessary). Your Nose of the Hounds will always have targets.
Less efficient: Mind Numbs or the Quietus version of Principia
Discordia (seems like there's one or two other's I'm forgetting...)
Probably too many moving parts, though. This kind of stuff is
likely easier to use by just switching gears and bleeding with the
Spirit Marionettes when your prey starts tapping himself out.
Fred
librarian
> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1
> stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
>
> But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I
> am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt.
> I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL
> Guns might have possibilities.
>
> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
>
> Other suggestions?
You know, replying to myself, what I have found as I start to think
about using Nose at aus, is that it's even better to use aus as defense,
since you have more control over what strike you use.
Maybe you use just sprinkle in a few Nose's for certain targets.
best -
chris
crispyfloss
> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1
> stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
>
> But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I
> am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt.
> I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL
> Guns might have possibilities.
>
> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
>
> Other suggestions?
I imagine Aus/Cel would work quite well. You've seen the ol' aus/cel/
for anarch deck enough times, I think, and that one's very rough
around the edges. Heaps of Nose, Diversion, TT, Groundfighting. The
crypt could be smaller, but I'm a sucker for Owain.
Aus/Pot doesn't work well? I suppose it would have some weak spots.
But the pieces are there: Bricklaying to tap, Nose to rush, Slam gets
you another maneuver, and Grapple. All with inferiors except the Slam
maneuver. It wouldn't be brilliant, but you're talking about an Aus
rush deck after all :-D
I've always thought an Osebo deck should work quite well, at least
theoretically, but the crypt never quite comes together for me.
librarian
You know Rob, my aus/pot deck always seemed to run into better combat.
Especially agg poke. There aren't many small aus/pot vamps, and larger
ones are too expensive to get killed by hitback.
I always tried to cram in intercept and bounce. Maybe that was my
problem. Just focus on rush.
best -
chris
wumpus
On Jan 29, 4:52 pm, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1
> stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
>
> But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I
> am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt.
> I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL
> Guns might have possibilities.
>
> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
>
> Other suggestions?
AUS/THA seems like the obvious place to start. Nose + TT = second
round, and a maneuver on the first so you can safely Theft. Lots o' 5-
cap and smaller vamps too. You don't have to rely on the rush side,
of course, but it certainly doesn't hurt to have it.
Alex
IC-O...@yandex.ru
Also AUS/THA in heavy fortitude metagame I think could be good.
Janne Hägglund
> Is Valerean totally unplayable?
Certainly not. It may not be tier 1, but after Legacies of Blood, it's
certainly playable. Try Armor of Caine's Fury + Trap. Weighed Walking Stick
+ Sword of the Righteous. Concealed Kerries and Laibon !Salubri. Aversion
is wonderful.
But if you go down the Valeren road, ditch Nose of the Hound and use the best
rush card in the game: Sense Death.
HG
--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic"
> IC-O...@yandex.ru writes:
>
>
>>Is Valerean totally unplayable?
>
>
> Certainly not. It may not be tier 1, but after Legacies of Blood, it's
> certainly playable. Try Armor of Caine's Fury + Trap. Weighed Walking Stick
> + Sword of the Righteous. Concealed Kerries and Laibon !Salubri. Aversion
> is wonderful.
>
> But if you go down the Valeren road, ditch Nose of the Hound and use the best
> rush card in the game: Sense Death.
>
>
> HG
>
of theb righteous or even the chainsaw of the righteous.
Superior Blissful agony is an interesting sideline as well.
Peter D Bakija
> I've always thought an Osebo deck should work quite well, at least
> theoretically, but the crypt never quite comes together for me.
Yeah, they suffer from having a dubious crypt selection and that
Auspex doesn't really help you oust anyone so much (Pulse being an
expensive and not fantastic exception for AUS). So you can make a
reasonably good intercept fight deck, but intercept fight decks don't
win so much. And you can just make a pretty straight forward Rush deck
with Telepathic Misdirection for bounce, but the crypt isn't great, is
kinda big, and POT/dom works much better and has a better crypt. It
isn't that hard to use them as part of a pot/aus crypt--you can get a
pretty weenified pot/aus crypt:
-David Morgan (3) pot, aus
-Gengis (3) pot, aus
-Kamaria (3) pot, aus
-Ismita (4) pot, aus
-Mariano Pomposo (4) pot, aus
-Henry Johnson (4) pot, aus
But you don't get AUS in the mix till Kisha Bhimji (5), and don't get
AUS, POT till Homa (6) and then Jeremy McNeil (7) and Khalu (7).
So some sort of weenie pot/aus deck has a crypt waiting for it, but
really, what are you going to do with pot/aus weenies? Bounceless
light intercept and Sewer Lids maybe?
-Peter
Malone
> So, it seems like Nose of the Hound is the best rush card, with +1
> stealth and a maneuver (too bad they have to be tapped).
>
> But I was wondering which discipline(s) are matched up best with Aus. I
> am assuming a small crypt, because Rush usually requires a small crypt.
> I have tried aus Pot, and it didn't really work that well. Aus CEL
> Guns might have possibilities.
>
> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
>
> Other suggestions?
AUS + Black Hand Psychic Assault + Target Vitals
librarian
Exactly. I struggled with this for a *very* long time. It may be more
viable now with the advent of Target Vitals. And maybe focus on aus/POT
- don't worry about intercept, just use Nose for Rush. Your crypt
choices get only slightly better: Terry and Uzoma at (5) (and Pugfar,
but because he's a slave, useless).
Heck, with the advent of the Aim cards, go with something even more
ridiculous like a weenie aus rush deck, sprinkled with very slight bounce.
Deck Name: Spies Everywhere
Created By: shorb
Description: Weenies block and rush, use Target Vitals to make their
strikes really count.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 6, Max: 16, Avg: 2.83)
---------------------------------------------
2 Franciscus aus 1 Caitiff
1 Dieter Kleist aus 2 Toreador
2 Brazil aus 2 Malkavian
1 Zoe cel obf AUS 3 Malkavian
1 Isabel de Leon AUS 3 Toreador
1 Remilliard pre AUS 4 Toreador
Antitribu
1 Idalia dem AUS 4 Malkavian
Antitribu
1 Dorian Strack cel AUS 4 Toreador
1 Aleph dom AUS 4 Malkavian
1 Richard Tauber tha AUS 4 Tremere Antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (16 cards)
1 Asylum Hunting Ground
4 Blood Doll
1 Channel 10
1 Club Zombie
1 Elder Library
1 KRCG News Radio
1 Life Boon
1 Rumor Mill, Tabloid Newspaper, The
2 Smiling Jack, The Anarch
2 Tribute to the Master
1 WMRH Talk Radio
Action (11 cards)
7 Computer Hacking
4 Nose of the Hound
Action Modifier (4 cards)
4 Leverage
Political Action (1 cards)
1 Ancilla Empowerment
Reaction (15 cards)
1 Delaying Tactics
4 Eagle`s Sight
5 On the Qui Vive
5 Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (41 cards)
4 Boxed In
4 Fake Out
6 Lucky Blow
1 Target Hand
1 Target Head
1 Target Leg
12 Target Vitals
6 Weighted Walking Stick
6 Zip Gun
Ally (2 cards)
1 Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
1 Ossian
This deck was last saved at 9:20:18 AM on 1/30/2008
Look, I tried to make it, and still came up adding intercept.
best -
chris
librarian
> Deck Name: Spies Everywhere
>
>
> Political Action (1 cards)
> 1 Ancilla Empowerment
>
This should be an Autarkis...
Dorrinal Blackmantle
AUS THA is strong, with a gorgeous crypt in group 3. Run heavy Theft
or Magic of the Smith and weapons. Telepathic Tracking is a great set-
up for Walk of Flame if that's your bag.
If you want something a little more trumpy I suggest AUS CEL, .44
Magnums, and a pile of Psyche! Of course you'll end up either
dropping the AUS or turning it into a wall deck.
--
Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
Peter D Bakija
librarian <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> Exactly. I struggled with this for a *very* long time. It may be more
> viable now with the advent of Target Vitals. And maybe focus on aus/POT
> - don't worry about intercept, just use Nose for Rush. Your crypt
> choices get only slightly better: Terry and Uzoma at (5) (and Pugfar,
> but because he's a slave, useless).
Heh. But if you aren't using AUS for bounce, I'm unconvinced that the
aus is really helping that much--the Nose of the Hound (which started
all of this :-) is good and all, but I don't know if it is good enough
to justify hobbling the whole deck just so you can use them instead of,
like, Harass (which is actually easier to play across the board although
lacking the stealth).
> Deck Name: Spies Everywhere
> Created By: shorb
> Description: Weenies block and rush, use Target Vitals to make their
> strikes really count.
The deck is certainly interesting, but still, I'm not convinced that the
aus is actually doing you any good in and of itself--it looks like it
could be pretty much *any* weenie discipline and doing the same thing.
There are, what, 5 bounce and 4 Eagle's Sight and 4 Nose? Why not just
go weenie dominate, do the same thing but not even need a superior
discipline, turn the bounce and intercept into deflection, and the Nose
into Harass? And then the Hackings and Leverages could be better bleed
cards.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"Find hungry samurai."
-The Old Man
Peter D Bakija
Probably not so good. But maybe?
1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel
1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel
2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT
2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT
2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot
1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel
1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot
1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot
1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot
4x Blood Doll
3x Wash
2x Fame
1x Dreams
1x Vist from the Capuchin
8x Nose of the Hound
8x Telepathic Misdirection
8x Ancestor's Insight
4x Telepathic Tracking
8x Flash
6x Pursuit
4x Blur
8x Sewer Lid
4x Stunt Bike
4x Thrown Gate
8x Wake
4x Taste
4x Desert Eagle
1x Osebo Kholo
Maybe it'll work? Maybe it'll choke on useless?
-Peter
BigRefT
powerful combo. Pack Alpha some raven spies and murder of crows then
carrion crows and use an aid from bats to go to long and strike for
one. So you are hitting for 2+ at long. Press and do it again.
Sprinkle a few Canine Hordes to get ride of any dangerous weapons with
first strike.
Heck you can use Nose to get into combat and you have an additional
maneuver to get to long. You can even strike with Psychic Assault.
Course I use this with Tzimisce (Dragos) or Ahrimans (Howler).
-Tony
IC-O...@yandex.ru
multi rush.
Also "Aura Reading" is usefull. I put at least two in each deck that
have AUS.
I played fun deck with Saulot Sense death/ Nose of the Hound
+Serenading the Kami+Aura Reading/Vitae block/Weather Control
+Anesthetic Touch/Blood Fury+Taste of Vitae+Telephatic Tracking.
Very card Intensive but fun to play ^)
Malone
> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
Why is this good? If you play CF + TV + TT you pay two blood to do
zero damage, and you move on to another round. TT won't allow the CF
damage to happen. But I guess I misunderstand how you intend to use
the combo.
Chris Berger
I'm pretty sure it works like this: CF does damage whenever combat
happens to end, even if it's not right away. Now if you were to, say,
Psyche after combat ended, you'd lose the after combat effect. But
when you play TT, combat doesn't end yet, and the CF damage is saved
up for later. And since combat ends immediately after your strike,
and then continues with a new round, your opponent's strikes never get
a chance to resolve. Still extremely silly, if you ask me, but I've
only seen the deck *try* to work - it ended up getting screwed by
Grapples and other bad news.
bluedevil
> So some sort of weenie pot/aus deck has a crypt waiting for it, but
> really, what are you going to do with pot/aus weenies? Bounceless
> light intercept and Sewer Lids maybe?
Take the standard mono-potence library. Rip out the Computer Hacks.
Replace with Revelations. Strip out the key combat defense cards of
your prey (or whatever) and rush rush rush.
--
David Cherryholmes
LSJ
> On Jan 31, 7:42 am, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:
>>> AUS PRE Catatonic Fear Target Vitals with Telepathic Tracking?
>> Why is this good? If you play CF + TV + TT you pay two blood to do
>> zero damage, and you move on to another round. TT won't allow the CF
>> damage to happen. But I guess I misunderstand how you intend to use
>> the combo.
>
> I'm pretty sure it works like this: CF does damage whenever combat
> happens to end, even if it's not right away.
No. If it's not right away, then the damage from CF is lost.
Peter D Bakija
> Take the standard mono-potence library. Rip out the Computer Hacks.
> Replace with Revelations. Strip out the key combat defense cards of
> your prey (or whatever) and rush rush rush.
Hmm. That might work out ok.
-Peter
Chris Berger
Well, then, either I have no idea what that deck I saw was trying to
do, or else neither did the guy that built it. I'm assuming the same
ruling applies to Riposte and to Arianne, though there doesn't seem to
be a general ruling listed on the WW page, and there are no specific
rulings for those cards, unlike specific rulings for CF and
Rotschreck.
I don't want to get into a big argument or anything over this, since
it's not my deck, and I think the concept is silly even if it works,
but this is the RTR that I believe is applied to CF (and by extension
to Riposte and Arianne) to make them fizzle if combat is continued (as
opposed to "restarted", which would be a difference matter):
- Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all
in the
single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or
if a
new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction
or
Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply
to
end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to
after
combat (see Majesty ruling above).
- If an effect resolves and sets up an effect to be resolved later
(e.g.,
Undead Persistence's torpor effect or Siren's Lure's combat), then the
effect will not be canceled by "interruptions" (extending combat/
starting
combat/etc.).
As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be
resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte.
Specifically, the wording on CF is "inflict 1 damage to the opposing
minion once combat ends". The "once combat ends" part seems to be
setting up an effect to be resolved later. It really shouldn't matter
if later is right after this strike resolves, or 5 minutes from now
when combat really *does* end.
James Coupe
.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes:
>As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be
>resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte.
They don't.
When they resolve, combat ends and damage is done. The resolution is
interrupted by TT, Psyche! etc. This is in contrast to, say, Undead
Persistence where the card has fully resolved already, and an effect has
been set up to resolve later.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
LSJ
> As far as I can tell, CF, Riposte, and Arianne set up an effect to be
> resolved later, both by MRP and by specific ruling to Riposte.
No. The effect is part of the resolution of the card. During strike resolution
(the resolution of the card), CF ends combat and inflicts a damage.
> Specifically, the wording on CF is "inflict 1 damage to the opposing
> minion once combat ends". The "once combat ends" part seems to be
> setting up an effect to be resolved later.
It's clarifying the order in which "end combat" and "take damage" are applied.
But bother are "during the resolution of this effect".
Peter D Bakija
> So I threw together this deck as a sketch based on this discussion.
> Probably not so good. But maybe?
For what it is worth, I played this deck twice last night:
-Game 1: My prey was a weenie obf/computer hacking deck in a 4 player
game. I was endlessly foiled by, get this, Back Flips and disguised
Flash Grenades. And then Watenda for the extra humiliation. It was
ridiculous. Yet totally hysterical. Weenie Obf sweeps the table,
killing me last.
-Game 2: My prey was some kind of Assamite deck in a 5 player game. I
ended up doing well, as the other guy at the table doing well was a
CHI/DEM deck that conviniently locked down one of my prey's vampires,
and eventually one of my predator's vampires, with Sensory
Deprivation. I end up getting a 3VP table win.
So not horrible in its first go.
> 1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel
> 1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel
> 2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT
> 2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT
> 2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot
> 1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel
> 1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot
> 1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot
> 1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot
Crypt isn't bad. I wanna replace regular Jemery McNeil with a second
Advanced. Yeah, I can't get the merge action going, but the built in
Rush is significant.
> 4x Blood Doll
> 3x Wash
> 2x Fame
> 1x Dreams
> 1x Vist from the Capuchin
Taking out the Wash. Replacing them with an Ancestor Spirit (perma +1
bleed) and a Haven Uncovered (maybe a Frontal Assault?). And 1 more
minion card.
> 8x Nose of the Hound
> 8x Telepathic Misdirection
> 8x Ancestor's Insight
> 4x Telepathic Tracking
> 8x Flash
> 6x Pursuit
> 4x Blur
> 8x Sewer Lid
> 4x Stunt Bike
> 4x Thrown Gate
> 8x Wake
> 4x Taste
> 4x Desert Eagle
> 1x Osebo Kholo
Removing Osebo Kholo, 2 Ancestor's Insight and putting in 4x Quicken
Sight.
All in all, I wasn't totally horrified by the performance. And I like
getting some mileage out of the Osebo.
-Peter
sul...@aol.com
> > 1x Jeremy McNeil Adv (8) AUS, POT, cel
> > 1x Jeremy McNeil (7) AUS, POT, cel
> > 2x Khallu (7) AUS, CEL, POT
> > 2x Homa (6) AUS, CEL, POT
> > 2x Kisha Bhimji (5) AUS, cel, pot
> > 1x Uzoma (5) POT, aus, cel
> > 1x Ismita (4) aus, cel, pot
> > 1x Mariano Pomposo (4) aus, cel, pot
> > 1x Genghis (3) aus, cel, pot
>
> Crypt isn't bad. I wanna replace regular Jemery McNeil with a second
> Advanced. Yeah, I can't get the merge action going, but the built in
> Rush is significant.
Unless the ruling on Epiphany has gotten changed, you could run a
number of those. Any deck I'd want to merge anyone, it would be so
tempting to run a minimum of 2 copies.
> > 4x Blood Doll
> > 3x Wash
> > 2x Fame
> > 1x Dreams
> > 1x Vist from the Capuchin
>
> Taking out the Wash. Replacing them with an Ancestor Spirit (perma +1
> bleed) and a Haven Uncovered (maybe a Frontal Assault?). And 1 more
> minion card.
Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are
playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck
could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you
should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better
use of the master phase. I'd even play some skill cards. You may
survive some random bloodhunt or you may draw them. Pursuit, Blur,
Thrown Gate, and Stunt Cycle are all hurting at inferior.
> > 8x Nose of the Hound
> > 8x Telepathic Misdirection
> > 8x Ancestor's Insight
> > 4x Telepathic Tracking
> > 8x Flash
> > 6x Pursuit
> > 4x Blur
> > 8x Sewer Lid
> > 4x Stunt Bike
> > 4x Thrown Gate
> > 8x Wake
> > 4x Taste
> > 4x Desert Eagle
> > 1x Osebo Kholo
Speaking of those cards hurting at inferior, how about losing the
Stunt Cycles and maybe some Thrown Gates for some sort of dodge
(again, much better if you have CEL for the likes of Side Strike or
Sideslip or Acrobatics) and upping the number of Telepathic Trackings.
> Removing Osebo Kholo, 2 Ancestor's Insight and putting in 4x Quicken
> Sight.
One theory I haven't done much with is the idea of establishing a
solid voting presence in combat decks. Nevermind diablerie, it helps
a ton to get casual benefits rather than casual pain from vote decks.
Of course, what the vote deck should do is blow these sorts of decks
off the table, but I so rarely see that sort of thinking.
Anyway, not suggesting you keep the Kholo so much as have more of a
plan for votes from Delaying Tacticsing the Reckless Agitations to
DIing the random annoyances.
> All in all, I wasn't totally horrified by the performance. And I like
> getting some mileage out of the Osebo.
Mostly, I'd want to add some permanentness to the deck from blood
gain, to bleed, to whatever and thin out some of the highly redundant
combat. As it stands, it comes across as highly inflexible, though
Quicken Sight helps some with that.
A copy or two of Legend of the Leopard wouldn't be out of place
either. You can pretend they are extra rush cards.
> -Peter
Peter D Bakija
> number of those. Any deck I'd want to merge anyone, it would be so
> tempting to run a minimum of 2 copies.
I think in the long run, the merge isn't really important--I mean, it
is nice to get the 2 votes, but I think I'd be better of with two of
the guys who can rush. Which then leads me to thinking "Huh. Why
aren't I just using Massassi instead?", as she has built in Rush (with
a manuever), is Laibon, *and* has CEL. All for 1 more point. But the
line between an 8 cap and a 9 cap seems significant in my head. But
maybe if I were smart, I'd just go with Massassi instead.
> Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are
> playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck
> could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you
> should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better
> use of the master phase.
Rush tech means low masters to avoid jamming. And also means you have
the fewer masters more often. You cycle a lot of cards. So you don't
want a lot of masters. As they jam up the engine. But as you cycle a
lot of cards, you see the masters you have more often anyway.
Especially with Dreams and/or Visit (which should proabbly be a second
Dreams instead, but I think I ran out of Dreams)
> I'd even play some skill cards. You may
> survive some random bloodhunt or you may draw them. Pursuit, Blur,
> Thrown Gate, and Stunt Cycle are all hurting at inferior.
Sure, but there is enough of everything to make it all work out ok--
plenty of POT (7). Not enough CEL (4) to be worth worry about having
it (i.e. I plan on only using cel, but if I get some use out of CEL,
awesome!). Consequently, I swapped out the Pursuits for a couple more
Flash, a couple more Telepathic Tracking, and turned the 4 Blur into 6
Acrobatics (most of the time, I won't have CEL, so it is only getting
me 1 additional anyway; I don't have a metric ton of strikes, so
getting 3 off in a row is unlikely, unless I have a gun; the
occasional Dodge is probably a good thing to be able to take advantage
of, I figure).
>
> > > 8x Nose of the Hound
> Speaking of those cards hurting at inferior, how about losing the
> Stunt Cycles and maybe some Thrown Gates for some sort of dodge
> (again, much better if you have CEL for the likes of Side Strike or
> Sideslip or Acrobatics) and upping the number of Telepathic Trackings.
Yeah, I thought about ditching the Stunt Cycles, but really, at
inferior, they aren't much worse than at superior (they do 3 damage
and prevent 1, which is great against, like, Ivory Bow tech, and they
still get foiled by cel in any case)--maybe now that I have some
Dodges in there, swapping them for more Sewer Lids is probably the way
to go. The Gates are in there just for the occasional extra manuever.
But yeah, I like the dodge option from Acrobatics.
> One theory I haven't done much with is the idea of establishing a
> solid voting presence in combat decks. Nevermind diablerie, it helps
> a ton to get casual benefits rather than casual pain from vote decks.
> Of course, what the vote deck should do is blow these sorts of decks
> off the table, but I so rarely see that sort of thinking.
Oh, sure--Eurobrujah are great for that. But in this case, I think the
1 prayer card of Kholo is a tad dubious. Won't come up in hand much,
even when it does, it often won't get any play at all.
> Mostly, I'd want to add some permanentness to the deck from blood
> gain, to bleed, to whatever and thin out some of the highly redundant
> combat. As it stands, it comes across as highly inflexible, though
> Quicken Sight helps some with that.
Taste works for blood gain (being at long all the time helps a lot
with blood loss, too). The combat is reasonably effective in most
situations. It bounces a lot. It can light intercept. It has
reasonable ousting potential. Some permanent combat (guns). Seems
pretty flexible to me :-)
> A copy or two of Legend of the Leopard wouldn't be out of place
> either. You can pretend they are extra rush cards.
Hmm. Interesting.
-Peter
sul...@aol.com
> > Can take Washes out or not, but mostly, I don't see why you are
> > playing so few master cards in the first place. As much as this deck
> > could burn up a lot of cards in a combat and find itself choking, you
> > should be able to make the combat less card intensive and make better
> > use of the master phase.
>
> Rush tech means low masters to avoid jamming. And also means you have
> the fewer masters more often. You cycle a lot of cards. So you don't
> want a lot of masters. As they jam up the engine. But as you cycle a
> lot of cards, you see the masters you have more often anyway.
> Especially with Dreams and/or Visit (which should proabbly be a second
> Dreams instead, but I think I ran out of Dreams)
You only had 8 rushes and one copy of a vampire with built in rush -
it's not much of a rush deck; adding intercept won't make it more so,
either. As it stands, it's only a rush deck because it isn't much of
anything else (has some theoretical bruise bleed angle with Insight).
Add some intercept (like you intend) and it's an intercept combat deck
with Nose of the Hound for casual rush.
And, the point I was getting at is the combat is too card intensive
currently. The less the deck is thought of as a rush deck, the less
need it has to win combats and the more slots that can be spent on
something better, like masters.
BTW, any particular reason not to play Dominique Santo Paulo?
Peter D Bakija
> You only had 8 rushes and one copy of a vampire with built in rush -
> it's not much of a rush deck; adding intercept won't make it more so,
> either.
Yeah, that's why I added in a Haven Uncovered and 4 Quicken Sight--to
get in more fights. That being said, I play in a very fighty
environment, so the likelyhood of me sitting next to Enkidu in any
given game is high :-)
> And, the point I was getting at is the combat is too card intensive
> currently.
Not as much as you'd think. I mean, yeah, it is intensive, but not at
all unreasonable for my money--the manuvers are necessary just to make
the lids work (and the guns, for that matter).
I could pare down the combat, but then:
A) It wouldn't be remotely effective in combat. Unless it switches to
all guns (which is many more problems in and of itself) or close range
(different issues all together, and harder to do 3 damage just off of
a Nose and a strike).
B) It would get killed by other combat (which is a local issue more
than a global one, I'm sure).
> BTW, any particular reason not to play Dominique Santo Paulo?
Probably should, really.
-Peter
Peter D Bakija
> it's not much of a rush deck;
As a strategic sidebar, with reliable bounce (i.e. Telepathic
Misdirection) and light reduction (Ancestors Insight), it can be
fighty but casual about it. The traditional (weenie?) rush deck tends
to have, like, 12 rush actions and about 4 Haven Uncovered (rough
average of rush capability for that sort of deck). Of those, if you
end up with an aggressive predator, a handful of them end up going
upstream (I'd say, like, a 3:2 split against a very aggressive
predator). Without needing to go upstream (due to being able to bounce
on a regular basis), you need fewer rush actions--enough to kill your
prey's Famous vampire, enough to slow folks down as needed, but you
can generally slow yourself down. 8x rush might have been a little
lighter than necessary, but I suspect, 8, a Haven/Frontal, and some
Quicken Sight, and I suspect it'll be plenty.
-Peter