Q Melee Weapons with aggravated damage

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Garou

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Aug 2, 2001, 5:57:42 PM8/2/01
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Hi!
I want to konw if I strike with a melee weapon that inflicts +1 strength
aggravated ( as sengir dagger or Kali's fang), all damage is aggravated??
For exemple: Bianca (+1 streangh) has sengeir dagger and she strikes with it
, s
he does 3 damage "all" aggravateds?
or 2 damages (+1 streangh she has) + 1 dmg agg (sengir)??

--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Rpst asap thx ;-)


Halcyan 2

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Aug 2, 2001, 6:21:24 PM8/2/01
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>Hi!
>I want to konw if I strike with a melee weapon that inflicts +1 strength
>aggravated ( as sengir dagger or Kali's fang), all damage is aggravated??
>For exemple: Bianca (+1 streangh) has sengeir dagger and she strikes with it
>, s
>he does 3 damage "all" aggravateds?
>or 2 damages (+1 streangh she has) + 1 dmg agg (sengir)??

Yes, Bianca striking with Kali's Fang does 3 aggravated damage. This is because
all of the damage is coming from the weapon strike (and the vampire's strength
is only modifying that).

Halcyan 2

Francois Gombault

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Aug 4, 2001, 6:20:24 AM8/4/01
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In article <20010802182124...@ng-fq1.aol.com>,

halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote:
>
> Yes, Bianca striking with Kali's Fang does 3 aggravated damage. This is
> because all of the damage is coming from the weapon strike (and the
> vampire's strength is only modifying that).
>

Some Tremere gets in combat with your Bianca, and plays Machine Blitz.
Does Bianca get :
2 damage ? <- my bet (card text, IIRC)
3 damage ?
2 agg. damage ? <- but I prefer this one
3 agg. damage ?

Next question, the same Tremere gets rushed by Anvil, who has a Bomb. Can
he plays Machine Blitz after Anvil delared using the Bomb as his strike ?
My bet is no, since the Bomb is burned. True ? Or is the Bomb burned
after I can play Machine Blitz ? How does this resolve ? Please ! Headache
!

Now if Anvil does not use his Bomb, It looks like the Tremere can play
Machine Blitz on that Bomb, inflict 5 damage to Anvil, but the Bomb is
still here (as it was not used as a strike). Is that right ?

Finally, can this pesky Tremere play Blur and Machine Blitz 3 times
somebody with a Shotgun ? With a Grenade ? IIRC, No card text says the
contrary... But it definitely does look silly.

Oh, that's too funny, I can't wait to make a Blur / Machine Blitz deck,
just to piss off my !Brujah friends. ;P

--
Francois

Halcyan 2

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Aug 4, 2001, 6:09:53 AM8/4/01
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Card Text:

Machine Blitz
Combat
Discipline: Thaumaturgy
Rarity: Rare
Artist(s): Clint Langley
Set(s): *Sabbat

Choose a weapon possessed by the opposing minion. Strike: ranged; X damage,
where X is the amount of damage the chosen weapon would inflict as a strike.

SUP: As above, with +1R damage.

Rulings and Clarifications:

Machine Blitz inflicts an amount of ranged damage equal to (or 1 greater than)
the amount the chosen weapon would inflict if it were chosen as a strike. This
amount is set when Machine Blitz is announced. [LSJ 19970224]


>Some Tremere gets in combat with your Bianca, and plays Machine Blitz.
>Does Bianca get :
>2 damage ? <- my bet (card text, IIRC)
>3 damage ?

Correct. Bianca using Kali's Fang would do 3 damage so Machine Blitz does 3
damage. The Machine Blitz damage is ranged due to card text, but the text says
nothing about inheriting the properties of that weapon so it would not be
aggravated.

>Next question, the same Tremere gets rushed by Anvil, who has a Bomb. Can
>he plays Machine Blitz after Anvil delared using the Bomb as his strike ?
>My bet is no, since the Bomb is burned. True ? Or is the Bomb burned
>after I can play Machine Blitz ? How does this resolve ? Please ! Headache

Yes the Tremere can play Machine Blitz. Bomb (and White Phosperous Grenade) are
only burned at strike resolution. If you don't get a chance to get there (like
that whole Rotschreck thing), then it isn't burned. So Bomb is a valid target
for Machine Blitz (though it really sucks for Anvil, who will take 5+5=10
damage!).

>Now if Anvil does not use his Bomb, It looks like the Tremere can play
>Machine Blitz on that Bomb, inflict 5 damage to Anvil, but the Bomb is
>still here (as it was not used as a strike). Is that right ?

Yes.

>Finally, can this pesky Tremere play Blur and Machine Blitz 3 times
>somebody with a Shotgun ? With a Grenade ? IIRC, No card text says the
>contrary... But it definitely does look silly.

Yes you can. Card text does not impose any restrictions based on how often that
weapon can be used.


* Note that I'm 90% sure of these answers. The only thing that is kind of
bothering me is the clarification about "Machine Blitz inflicts an amount of
ranged damage equal to (or 1 greater than) the amount the chosen weapon would
inflict if it were chosen as a strike." From recent discussion on using Blood
of the Cobra with hand strikes or melee weapons, this sort of implies that the
weapon is ineffective at range. So it makes me wonder that if Tremere A plays
Machine Blitz at range and Tremere B has a Sengir Dagger (which is blitzed) and
would do 1 damage, couldn't one argue that the Blitz does no damage since (at
this range), the Dagger does no damage if chosen as a strike? I'm pretty sure
that this argument is wrong and that my previous answers were all right since
we discussed this topic a few months ago. But that ruling on Blood of the Cobra
is making me second-guess myself...

Halcyan 2

Francois Gombault

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Aug 6, 2001, 5:33:58 AM8/6/01
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In article <20010804060953...@ng-bg1.aol.com>,
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote:
[snipped answers]

> * Note that I'm 90% sure of these answers. The only thing that is kind
> of bothering me is the clarification about "Machine Blitz inflicts an
> amount of ranged damage equal to (or 1 greater than) the amount the
> chosen weapon would inflict if it were chosen as a strike." From recent
> discussion on using Blood of the Cobra with hand strikes or melee
> weapons, this sort of implies that the weapon is ineffective at range.
> So it makes me wonder that if Tremere A plays Machine Blitz at range and
> Tremere B has a Sengir Dagger (which is blitzed) and would do 1 damage,
> couldn't one argue that the Blitz does no damage since (at this range),
> the Dagger does no damage if chosen as a strike? I'm pretty sure that
> this argument is wrong and that my previous answers were all right since
> we discussed this topic a few months ago. But that ruling on Blood of
> the Cobra is making me second-guess myself...
>
> Halcyan 2

I see the point.

Anyway I'll take your word, unless LSJ comes up with something different.

Thank you very much for your answers.

--
Francois

LSJ

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Aug 6, 2001, 3:52:51 PM8/6/01
to
Halcyan 2 wrote:
>
> Card Text:
>
> Machine Blitz
> Combat
> Discipline: Thaumaturgy
> Rarity: Rare
> Artist(s): Clint Langley
> Set(s): *Sabbat
>
> Choose a weapon possessed by the opposing minion. Strike: ranged; X damage,
> where X is the amount of damage the chosen weapon would inflict as a strike.
>
> SUP: As above, with +1R damage.
>
> Rulings and Clarifications:
>
> Machine Blitz inflicts an amount of ranged damage equal to (or 1 greater than)
> the amount the chosen weapon would inflict if it were chosen as a strike. This
> amount is set when Machine Blitz is announced. [LSJ 19970224]

Also:
Equipment
A weapon's "current damage" is the amount of damage that the weapon would inflict
if used as a strike by bearer against a generic opponent. (This affects Concealed
Weapon, Illegal Search and Seizure, and Machine Blitz). [RTR 19980623]

> >Some Tremere gets in combat with your Bianca, and plays Machine Blitz.
> >Does Bianca get :
> >2 damage ? <- my bet (card text, IIRC)
> >3 damage ?
>
> Correct. Bianca using Kali's Fang would do 3 damage so Machine Blitz does 3
> damage. The Machine Blitz damage is ranged due to card text, but the text says
> nothing about inheriting the properties of that weapon so it would not be
> aggravated.

Correct.

> >Next question, the same Tremere gets rushed by Anvil, who has a Bomb. Can
> >he plays Machine Blitz after Anvil delared using the Bomb as his strike ?
> >My bet is no, since the Bomb is burned. True ? Or is the Bomb burned
> >after I can play Machine Blitz ? How does this resolve ? Please ! Headache
>
> Yes the Tremere can play Machine Blitz. Bomb (and White Phosperous Grenade) are
> only burned at strike resolution. If you don't get a chance to get there (like
> that whole Rotschreck thing), then it isn't burned. So Bomb is a valid target
> for Machine Blitz (though it really sucks for Anvil, who will take 5+5=10
> damage!).

Correct.



> >Now if Anvil does not use his Bomb, It looks like the Tremere can play
> >Machine Blitz on that Bomb, inflict 5 damage to Anvil, but the Bomb is
> >still here (as it was not used as a strike). Is that right ?
>
> Yes.
>
> >Finally, can this pesky Tremere play Blur and Machine Blitz 3 times
> >somebody with a Shotgun ? With a Grenade ? IIRC, No card text says the
> >contrary... But it definitely does look silly.
>
> Yes you can. Card text does not impose any restrictions based on how often that
> weapon can be used.

Correct.
Playing Machine Blitz doesn't count as "using" the weapon.

>
> * Note that I'm 90% sure of these answers. The only thing that is kind of
> bothering me is the clarification about "Machine Blitz inflicts an amount of
> ranged damage equal to (or 1 greater than) the amount the chosen weapon would
> inflict if it were chosen as a strike." From recent discussion on using Blood
> of the Cobra with hand strikes or melee weapons, this sort of implies that the
> weapon is ineffective at range. So it makes me wonder that if Tremere A plays
> Machine Blitz at range and Tremere B has a Sengir Dagger (which is blitzed) and
> would do 1 damage, couldn't one argue that the Blitz does no damage since (at
> this range), the Dagger does no damage if chosen as a strike? I'm pretty sure
> that this argument is wrong and that my previous answers were all right since
> we discussed this topic a few months ago. But that ruling on Blood of the Cobra
> is making me second-guess myself...

See the "against a generic opponent" track - it murkily implies that the range is
to be assumed to be appropriate (see Rotschreck's use of the word 'against').

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

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