[Q-LSJ] Prisci Sub-referendum

[Kalessin]

Two short ones that arise this afternoon during the game.

Situation:
Me playing !Torries with 1 priscus.

Player B playing Lasombras, with Gratiano (+1 vote during prisci sub
referendum).

a) Can I play Scalpel's Tongue to cancel Gratiano's votes in the prisci
sub referendum thus winning it with my priscus?

b) Can I use Powerbase: Madrid to increase the votes of my priscus in
the prisci sub referendum, thus tieing or beating Gratiano in the
prisci sub referendum?

Or does this extra votes/effect only apply to the regular referendum.

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Andrés Valenzuela

[Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo]

Kalessin escreveu:

Heya there.
As far as I know, unless explicit text is provided, every card that
gives, changes or cancel votes do so in the main referendum only.
So the answer to both questions would be no. I'm not sure if you can
play Scalpel Tongue on a vampire who has no votes in the main
referendum just to cycle, though. (can't access ARDB right now).
Burning the counters on the Powerbase would "only" add votes to your
priscus in the main referendum.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

[James Coupe]

In message <1131862040....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Fabio

'Sooner' Macedo <fabio....@gmail.com> writes:
>Kalessin escreveu:
>
>> Two short ones that arise this afternoon during the game.
>> Situation:
>> Me playing !Torries with 1 priscus.
>> Player B playing Lasombras, with Gratiano (+1 vote during prisci sub
>> referendum).
>> a) Can I play Scalpel's Tongue to cancel Gratiano's votes in the prisci
>> sub referendum thus winning it with my priscus?

You can play it to cancel Gratiano's votes. These cancel all his votes,
including those in the Prisci sub-referendum. (For example, if he was
playing Surprise Influence or had been given a Cardinal title but was
still casting his 1 extra Prisci vote.)

>> b) Can I use Powerbase: Madrid to increase the votes of my priscus in
>> the prisci sub referendum, thus tieing or beating Gratiano in the
>> prisci sub referendum?

For votes to count in the Prisci subreferendum, they have to be
specifically noted as that. Off the top of my head, only Gratiano's
text grants that.

Rulebook text:

"Each ready priscus provides 1 vote for this subreferendum, and no other
votes may be used in this subreferendum."

Since this is a rule, you need explicit card text to break it. Gratiano
provides that card text; Powerbase: Madrid doesn't.

>Heya there.
>As far as I know, unless explicit text is provided, every card that
>gives, changes or cancel votes do so in the main referendum only.

Incorrect. Changing or cancelling a vampire's votes changes all of that
vampire's votes, in both the main and sub-referendum.

<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7f066b
c85f06156a>

and

# If a Priscus is forced to abstain or to change his votes, then this
includes his votes in the Prisci sub-referendum as well as his votes (if
any) in the main referendum. [LSJ 19970224]

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

[LSJ]

James Coupe wrote:
> Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo <fabio....@gmail.com> writes:
>>Kalessin escreveu:

>>>a) Can I play Scalpel's Tongue to cancel Gratiano's votes in the prisci
>>>sub referendum thus winning it with my priscus?
>
> You can play it to cancel Gratiano's votes. These cancel all his votes,
> including those in the Prisci sub-referendum. (For example, if he was
> playing Surprise Influence or had been given a Cardinal title but was
> still casting his 1 extra Prisci vote.)

Correct.

>>>b) Can I use Powerbase: Madrid to increase the votes of my priscus in
>>>the prisci sub referendum, thus tieing or beating Gratiano in the
>>>prisci sub referendum?
>
> For votes to count in the Prisci subreferendum, they have to be
> specifically noted as that. Off the top of my head, only Gratiano's
> text grants that.
>
> Rulebook text:
>
> "Each ready priscus provides 1 vote for this subreferendum, and no other
> votes may be used in this subreferendum."
>
> Since this is a rule, you need explicit card text to break it. Gratiano
> provides that card text; Powerbase: Madrid doesn't.

Correct.

>>Heya there.
>>As far as I know, unless explicit text is provided, every card that
>>gives, changes or cancel votes do so in the main referendum only.
>
> Incorrect. Changing or cancelling a vampire's votes changes all of that
> vampire's votes, in both the main and sub-referendum.
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7f066b
> c85f06156a>
>
> and
>
> # If a Priscus is forced to abstain or to change his votes, then this
> includes his votes in the Prisci sub-referendum as well as his votes (if
> any) in the main referendum. [LSJ 19970224]

Correct. All votes from a single source (e.g., from a single vampire)
must be cast in agreement. This includes both the main referendum and the
priscus sub-referendum. You can think of it as the vampire's alignment.
If Gratiano is forced to be neutral, then this means he is neutral
(abstains) in both the main referendum and the sub-referendum.

--
That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet.
Keep a little and let a little come back to me.
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[Kalessin]

Thank you all guys! Cheers!