may 1st rulings.. (newbie)
Kenneth Kristiansen
All the debate that has been going on since the last ruling about
allies-going-to-torpor came out.. I've been wondering.
ps: all the snip's are from the online-rulebook, today!!
<snip>
6.4.6. Damage Resolution
Allies and retainers treat aggravated damage the same as normal damage. For
each point of damage (regular or aggravated) inflicted on an ally or
retainer, he burns one life counter. An ally or retainer who loses all of
his life counters is burned.
<snip>
Doesn't this ruling mean that allies and retainers are burnt if receiving
more damage than they have life counters?
How can you send an ally to torpor (uncontrolled region)? By a card-strike
or effect? It clearly states in the online-rulebook that allies and
retainers treat aggravated damage as normal damage...
I think I read the following in a thread somewhere....:
"an ally that can play discipline cards is treated as a vampire for all
parts of the action-combat-effect"
So, if an ally that can play discipline cards, "as a vampire" is the subject
of aggravated damage, it is sent to torpor?
I also think I read:
"allies can not pull themselves out of torpor, nor can they be brought out
of torpor"
How are they then brought out of torpor? Do they stay there for the
remainder of the game? Can they be diablerized??
<snip>
6.4.7. Retainers and Combat
If a retainer is not burned in a given combat, he gains back all the life
counters he lost during the combat.
<snip>
After this ruling, I'll just consider (in my mind) that a retainer is
nothing more than an advanced "equipment-card", that grants the vampire that
employed it, special abilities. Only this "equipment-card" can neither be
stolen nor destroyed. However, it can be destroyed by inflicting life+1
damage ( which I feel is a good thing )....
Please, if the answers to my questions are easily found somewhere, post a
link... I do not want to start yet another long, hot-tempered tread... ;-[}
LSJ
>
> Hi,
>
> All the debate that has been going on since the last ruling about
> allies-going-to-torpor came out.. I've been wondering.
>
> ps: all the snip's are from the online-rulebook, today!!
>
> <snip>
> 6.4.6. Damage Resolution
> Allies and retainers treat aggravated damage the same as normal damage. For
> each point of damage (regular or aggravated) inflicted on an ally or
> retainer, he burns one life counter. An ally or retainer who loses all of
> his life counters is burned.
> <snip>
>
> Doesn't this ruling mean that allies and retainers are burnt if receiving
> more damage than they have life counters?
Yes.
> How can you send an ally to torpor (uncontrolled region)? By a card-strike
> or effect? It clearly states in the online-rulebook that allies and
> retainers treat aggravated damage as normal damage...
If the ally is acting as a vampire, then (as a vampire) he could
go to torpor. Agg damage done to a vampire sends the vampire to
torpor (since he cannot heal it).
> I think I read the following in a thread somewhere....:
>
> "an ally that can play discipline cards is treated as a vampire for all
> parts of the action-combat-effect"
>
> So, if an ally that can play discipline cards, "as a vampire" is the subject
> of aggravated damage, it is sent to torpor?
If the effect of card that is played as if he were a vampire inflicts
aggravated damage on him, yes.
> I also think I read:
>
> "allies can not pull themselves out of torpor, nor can they be brought out
> of torpor"
>
> How are they then brought out of torpor? Do they stay there for the
> remainder of the game? Can they be diablerized??
They stay. They cannot be diablerized.
Further explicit card text would be needed to change this, since the
rules offer no mechanism for rescuing/diablerizing an ally.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Kenneth Kristiansen
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3CDAD5E2...@white-wolf.com...
> Kenneth Kristiansen wrote:
> > How are they then brought out of torpor? Do they stay there for the
> > remainder of the game? Can they be diablerized??
>
> They stay. They cannot be diablerized.
> Further explicit card text would be needed to change this, since the
> rules offer no mechanism for rescuing/diablerizing an ally.
Thanx for the clarification...
But.... Can they take any type of action in torpor? Play cards, be played
cards on etc... I mean, if thay can't act or be affected in torpor ( e.g
sacrificial lamb )... ( i know, bad example, since that states "burn a
vampire in torpor", but it's the only card I remeber that affects the torpor
region :-).. ), shouldn't players just consider the ally burnt??
-Kenneth-
Matt Green
news:cyAC8.177$pp1....@news01.chello.no
> Hi,
>
> All the debate that has been going on since the last ruling about
> allies-going-to-torpor came out.. I've been wondering.
>
> ps: all the snip's are from the online-rulebook, today!!
>
This is actually getting beyond the joke now and entering the realms of
a card limit debate and House Dust Mite excretia in terms of 'things
that irritate me'.
> <snip>
> 6.4.6. Damage Resolution
> Allies and retainers treat aggravated damage the same as normal damage. For
> each point of damage (regular or aggravated) inflicted on an ally or
> retainer, he burns one life counter. An ally or retainer who loses all of
> his life counters is burned.
> <snip>
>
> Doesn't this ruling mean that allies and retainers are burnt if receiving
> more damage than they have life counters?
>
They burn when they receive as much damage as their life total:
6.1.4. Employ Retainer (+1 stealth)
When a retainer is brought into play, it receives blood counters from
the blood bank to represent its life (listed on the retainer's card).
When a retainer loses its last life counter, it is burned (see Retainers
and Combat, sec. 6.4.7).
> How can you send an ally to torpor (uncontrolled region)? By a card-strike
> or effect? It clearly states in the online-rulebook that allies and
> retainers treat aggravated damage as normal damage...
>
Normally, Yes. However, there are situations where this is not the case.
> I think I read the following in a thread somewhere....:
>
> "an ally that can play discipline cards is treated as a vampire for all
> parts of the action-combat-effect"
>
You certainly read that. We all did.
> So, if an ally that can play discipline cards, "as a vampire" is the subject
> of aggravated damage, it is sent to torpor?
>
Yes. Totally correct, nothing wrong with your research so far.
> I also think I read:
>
> "allies can not pull themselves out of torpor, nor can they be brought out
> of torpor"
>
Given the current card pool, this is also true. Who knows what the
future holds though?
> How are they then brought out of torpor? Do they stay there for the
> remainder of the game? Can they be diablerized??
>
They can't (as yet). Until you are ousted (shouldn't be long given the
deck you're playing to achieve this rare feat). No. In that order.
> <snip>
> 6.4.7. Retainers and Combat
> If a retainer is not burned in a given combat, he gains back all the life
> counters he lost during the combat.
> <snip>
>
> After this ruling, I'll just consider (in my mind) that a retainer is
> nothing more than an advanced "equipment-card", that grants the vampire that
> employed it, special abilities. Only this "equipment-card" can neither be
> stolen nor destroyed.
>
They were anyway weren't they (in effect)?
> However, it can be destroyed by inflicting life+1
> damage ( which I feel is a good thing )....
>
A retainer burns when its life total is reduced to zero [6.1.4.]
>
> Please, if the answers to my questions are easily found somewhere, post a
> link... I do not want to start yet another long, hot-tempered tread... ;-[}
The information is all in the foolishly long threads, although wading
through it is both time consuming and ultimately wastful given the net
impact of this ruling on any given game.
mattgreen.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
jspektr
My suggestion is to do the same thing my own playgroud did when I
explained it to them. They had a good laugh, said "That's stupid" and
we all agreed to ignore it from now on.
No, I'm not exaggerating or making that up, though one of them decided
I was just trying to pull one over on them and refused to believe it.
So far, we're the only 11 Jyhad players I know about in St. Louis, and
there are no tournaments here, so choosing to wait for a different
revision of this rule shouldn't really affect much.
JSpektr
LSJ
Take action in torpor: no [6.1] (unless card text says otherwise).
Play cards: Depends. Reaction cards - no. Action cards - no. Action
modifiers - only if they're acting. Combat cards - no. [1.6.3]
Be played cards on: yes. [1.6.1.5] e.g. Cryptic Mission, etc.
Consider burnt: no (it's not in the ash heap, it can be contested, etc.)