LSJ: Week of Nightmares Q

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Joshua Duffin

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Aug 8, 2001, 5:18:18 PM8/8/01
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Card text:

"While this card is in play, all Ravnos get +1 bleed and +1 strength
and do not hunt as normal. Any ready Ravnos may hunt by stealing a
blood from any other Ravnos as a +1 stealth (D) action."

What happens if all the Ravnos in play have no blood? Does "steal a
blood" require a target? If not, presumably the ready empty Ravnoses
have to try to hunt by stealing from some other empty Ravnos, but
won't get anything out of it (and they'll all be unable to do anything
useful until Week expires, and, most likely, they all get burned,
barring some other gain-blood effects).


Thanks,

Josh

the always-forgets-to-move-a-nightmare-counter prince of washington dc

James Coupe

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Aug 8, 2001, 7:55:42 PM8/8/01
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In message <59b20daa.01080...@posting.google.com>, Joshua
Duffin <duff...@bls.gov> writes

>What happens if all the Ravnos in play have no blood? Does "steal a
>blood" require a target? If not, presumably the ready empty Ravnoses
>have to try to hunt by stealing from some other empty Ravnos, but
>won't get anything out of it (and they'll all be unable to do anything
>useful until Week expires, and, most likely, they all get burned,
>barring some other gain-blood effects).

I'd apply all of Legacy of Caine's rulings, which also replaces the
hunting action with a steal thing:

- If the vampire with Legacy of Cain hunts, he must still take the
action directed at a vampire, even if there are no vampires with blood
to steal. [LSJ 19970224]

- When hunting on a target that has no blood to steal, a successful
Legacy of Cain hunt action will simply have no effect (stealing zero
blood). [LSJ 19970224]

- If there are no targets (vampires) at all, then the vampire with
Legacy of Cain cannot hunt. [LSJ 19970224]

- The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not
affected by effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g.,
Aaron's Feeding Razor). [RTR 19970630]


--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
EBD690ECD7A1F
You scumbag, you maggot, you cheap lousy faggot B457CA213D7E6
Happy Christmas your arse, I pray God it's our last 68C3695D623D5D

LSJ

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Aug 8, 2001, 9:05:41 PM8/8/01
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James Coupe wrote:
> Joshua Duffin <duff...@bls.gov> writes
> >What happens if all the Ravnos in play have no blood? Does "steal a
> >blood" require a target? If not, presumably the ready empty Ravnoses

Yes and no. "Steal blood" targets a minion, not a blood counter.

> >have to try to hunt by stealing from some other empty Ravnos, but
> >won't get anything out of it (and they'll all be unable to do anything
> >useful until Week expires, and, most likely, they all get burned,
> >barring some other gain-blood effects).
>
> I'd apply all of Legacy of Caine's rulings, which also replaces the
> hunting action with a steal thing:
>
> - If the vampire with Legacy of Cain hunts, he must still take the
> action directed at a vampire, even if there are no vampires with blood
> to steal. [LSJ 19970224]
>
> - When hunting on a target that has no blood to steal, a successful
> Legacy of Cain hunt action will simply have no effect (stealing zero
> blood). [LSJ 19970224]
>
> - If there are no targets (vampires) at all, then the vampire with
> Legacy of Cain cannot hunt. [LSJ 19970224]
>
> - The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not
> affected by effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g.,
> Aaron's Feeding Razor). [RTR 19970630]

Correct.

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

W. Mark Woodhouse

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Aug 9, 2001, 1:25:29 AM8/9/01
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On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:05:41 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
wrote:

>James Coupe wrote:
>> I'd apply all of Legacy of Caine's rulings, which also replaces the
>> hunting action with a steal thing:
>>
>> - If the vampire with Legacy of Cain hunts, he must still take the
>> action directed at a vampire, even if there are no vampires with blood
>> to steal. [LSJ 19970224]
>>
>> - When hunting on a target that has no blood to steal, a successful
>> Legacy of Cain hunt action will simply have no effect (stealing zero
>> blood). [LSJ 19970224]
>>
>> - If there are no targets (vampires) at all, then the vampire with
>> Legacy of Cain cannot hunt. [LSJ 19970224]
>>
>> - The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not
>> affected by effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g.,
>> Aaron's Feeding Razor). [RTR 19970630]
>
>Correct.

Which reminded me of a ruling I had to make recently that I'd been
meaning to ask about.

Situation is: Vampire with both Legacy of Cain and Vampiric Disease on
it. Vampire's controller wants to use the Legacy hunt action to burn
a blood on a target vampire. Vampiric Disease states that "An
afflicted vampire cannot gain blood by hunting." My ruling was that
the Legacied, Diseased vampire can still take the hunt action, and
will steal 1 blood from the target if successful, but cannot gain that
blood, so it goes to the blood bank - similarly to hunting when full.
Is this correct? If so, this also implies that a Diseased vampire
could use Succulent Vitae for the "put this card on the vampire"
effect even if not gaining blood? How does "cannot gain blood from
hunting" compare with "cannot hunt" (e.g. Pulled Fangs)?

Mark Woodhouse
(who has the Legacy of Legbiter when it comes to pondering odd combos)

James Coupe

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Aug 8, 2001, 11:26:29 PM8/8/01
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In message <3b721c17...@news.tcinternet.net>, W. Mark Woodhouse
<shan...@tcinternet.net> writes

>Situation is: Vampire with both Legacy of Cain and Vampiric Disease on
>it. Vampire's controller wants to use the Legacy hunt action to burn
>a blood on a target vampire. Vampiric Disease states that "An
>afflicted vampire cannot gain blood by hunting." My ruling was that
>the Legacied, Diseased vampire can still take the hunt action, and
>will steal 1 blood from the target if successful, but cannot gain that
>blood, so it goes to the blood bank - similarly to hunting when full.
>Is this correct?

I'm reminded of:

"The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not
affected by effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g.,
Aaron's Feeding Razor)."

If this (Vampiric Disease - erm, I've only just noticed that goes to VD,
hmmm....) is an effect that alters the amount gained by hunting, then it
(VD) doesn't apply.

Can't hunt (in pulled fangs, mentioned later) is clearly can't hunt. I
*think* this is "can hunt" (e.g. under the influence of XTC) but doesn't
gain blood.

LSJ

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Aug 9, 2001, 7:50:47 AM8/9/01
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"W. Mark Woodhouse" wrote:

> >James Coupe wrote:
> >> - The amount gained (stolen) by the Legacy of Cain hunt action is not
> >> affected by effects that affect the amount gained by hunting (e.g.,
> >> Aaron's Feeding Razor). [RTR 19970630]
>
> Which reminded me of a ruling I had to make recently that I'd been
> meaning to ask about.
>
> Situation is: Vampire with both Legacy of Cain and Vampiric Disease on
> it. Vampire's controller wants to use the Legacy hunt action to burn
> a blood on a target vampire. Vampiric Disease states that "An
> afflicted vampire cannot gain blood by hunting." My ruling was that
> the Legacied, Diseased vampire can still take the hunt action, and
> will steal 1 blood from the target if successful, but cannot gain that
> blood, so it goes to the blood bank - similarly to hunting when full.
> Is this correct? If so, this also implies that a Diseased vampire

Yes. Also similar to the case of a "this vampire cannot gain blood" effect,
like that of Ex Nihilo. The amount of the hunt is not being changed - the
effect simply prevents the vampire from gaining blood.

> could use Succulent Vitae for the "put this card on the vampire"
> effect even if not gaining blood? How does "cannot gain blood from
> hunting" compare with "cannot hunt" (e.g. Pulled Fangs)?

As you say. Cannot gain blood (from hunting, or in general) doesn't
prevent the vampire from hunting - it just prevents him from gaining
blood when doing so.

Derek Ray

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Aug 9, 2001, 9:19:31 AM8/9/01
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James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in
news:qGNaswsl...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk:

> If this (Vampiric Disease - erm, I've only just noticed that goes to VD,
> hmmm....) is an effect that alters the amount gained by hunting, then it
> (VD) doesn't apply.

you've only just now noticed that? =) We've been putting it on other
vampires -forever- and saying "Duck gets the funk". Also been trying to
figure out ways to spread as much funk as possible. Mike Perlman has been
known to play Lunatic Eruption/VD on people before, which is highly
entertaining as both your prey AND grandprey get funked. I keep wanting to
do it to my OWN guys, especially one with, say, a Palatial Estate... so he
can REALLY spread the funk around. Just takes inferior DEM, so Victor
Revell could do it for Miller... :)

-- me

(testing alternative news-reading/posting host)

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