LSJ-Gwyedd Tangle Atrophos Hand

XZealot

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Feb 11, 2009, 3:47:42 PM2/11/09

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Gwyedd bleeds. Smudge declares a block. Gwyedd playes Tangle
Atrophos Hand.

Is Smudge tapped or untapped.

Gwyedd
Clan: Gangrel (group 4)
Capacity: 10
Disciplines: ANI DEM FOR POT PRO tem
Camarilla primogen: When Gwyedd is performing an undirected action,
any younger vampire who attempts to block and fails is tapped after
resolution.

Tangle Atropos' Hand
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Temporis/Potence
Cost: 1 blood
Only usable when a minion is attempting to block.
[pot] Cancel the action and untap the acting minion. (The blocking
minion is not tapped.)
[tem] As [pot] above, and take the action card, if any, back into your
hand (discard afterward).
[TEM] As [tem] above, and this vampire gets +1 stealth on his or her
next action this turn.

witness1

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Feb 11, 2009, 3:51:56 PM2/11/09

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On Feb 11, 3:47 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> Gwyedd bleeds. Smudge declares a block. Gwyedd playes Tangle
> Atrophos Hand.
>
> Is Smudge tapped or untapped.

Smudge's tappedness is unchanged.

> Tangle Atropos' Hand
> Type: Action Modifier
> Requires: Temporis/Potence
> Cost: 1 blood
> Only usable when a minion is attempting to block.

Attempting to block does not cause a minion to become tapped (a
successful block does).

-witness1

XZealot

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Feb 11, 2009, 3:58:32 PM2/11/09

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Oops, I asked the wrong questions

Gwyedd hunts. Smudge declares a block. Gwyedd playes Tangle

Kushiel

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Feb 11, 2009, 4:39:15 PM2/11/09

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On Feb 11, 3:58 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> Gwyedd hunts. Smudge declares a block. Gwyedd playes Tangle
> Atrophos Hand.
>
> Is Smudge tapped or untapped.

Is there a difference between an action failing and an action not
being successful? (Not a rhetorical question.)

If there isn't, Smudge should be tapped, based on an answer I got a
while back from LSJ about Tangle vs. No Secrets, in which he said that
if someone with No Secrets attempts to block and Tangle is played, the
No Secrets burns.

John Eno

LSJ

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Feb 11, 2009, 6:49:54 PM2/11/09

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XZealot wrote:
> Gwyedd bleeds. Smudge declares a block. Gwyedd playes Tangle
> Atrophos Hand.
>
> Is Smudge tapped or untapped.

Untapped. Gwyedd's ability only tries to tap Smudge after action resolution, and
Tangle cancels the action before resolution.

Kushiel

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Feb 11, 2009, 9:29:13 PM2/11/09

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On Feb 11, 6:49 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Untapped. Gwyedd's ability only tries to tap Smudge after action resolution, and
> Tangle cancels the action before resolution.

Can you explain why that's different from how Tangle interacts with No
Secrets? Here's a link to the previous discussion I mentioned:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ba2nmg

Thanks.

John Eno

LSJ

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Feb 11, 2009, 9:33:57 PM2/11/09

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Card text.

Gwyedd: "after resolution"

Kushiel

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Feb 12, 2009, 11:13:33 AM2/12/09

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On Feb 11, 9:33 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Card text.
>
> Gwyedd: "after resolution"

Ah! Excellent. Thank you.

John Eno