VTES Rules Team Rulings July 97

296 views
Skip to first unread message

LSJ (VtES Rep)

unread,
Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
to

Some elaborations/examples to help the medicine go down:

LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote:
> 1) You cannot move a card onto something that it can't normally be played
> on. For example, a minion with Derange on it can't move the card to a
> Malkavian antitribu, which can't have Derange played on it. This rule also
> covers cases where a minion cannot have more than one of a card or type of
> card. For example, you can't attempt to move a second vehicle onto a minion
> that is already equipped with one.

Note that this affects Beast, Leatherface of Detroit in many ways.
(No more diablerizing vampires to get equipment, etc.)

> 2) If a minion plays a combat card that deals damage, the damage is
> considered dealt by that minion only if it results from a strike (including
> strike modifiers such as ammo cards) or if the effect specifically says the
> damage is dealt by the minion. Damage from other effects is considered
> "environmental," and has no particular source.

Among other things, this affects how you determine if you can play
pulled fangs, as well as if you can play Rotschreck.

> 8) If a minion plays a strike that ends combat, then it ends when strike
> resolution would have begun. If any other effect ends combat, it is simply
> over, with no more opportunities to play cards during combat. In either
> case, if the strike or effect does something in addition to ending combat,
> this takes place just after the combat ends. This works exactly like other
> effects that occur at the end of combat, such as that of Undead
> Persistence, but does not shut down cards played after combat, such as
> superior Decapitate.

So, basically, damage from Mariel Lady Thunder, Riposte and Catatonic Fear
is dealt immediately after combat (and thus is unpreventable and is not
made aggravated by Dawn Operation, etc.).

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

LSJ (VtES Rep)

unread,
Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
to

GENERAL RULINGS

1) You cannot move a card onto something that it can't normally be played
on. For example, a minion with Derange on it can't move the card to a
Malkavian antitribu, which can't have Derange played on it. This rule also
covers cases where a minion cannot have more than one of a card or type of
card. For example, you can't attempt to move a second vehicle onto a minion
that is already equipped with one.

2) If a minion plays a combat card that deals damage, the damage is


considered dealt by that minion only if it results from a strike (including
strike modifiers such as ammo cards) or if the effect specifically says the
damage is dealt by the minion. Damage from other effects is considered
"environmental," and has no particular source.

3) Normally, there is only one opportunity to block a given action, though
any number of minions can try to block during that window of opportunity.
But if the target of a directed action is changed, this closes the current
window of opportunity and opens a new one, even if the same player as
before would be trying to block.

4) If the Prisci subvote is in favor of the main vote, then every Priscus
is considered to have voted in favor. If the Prisci subvote is against the
main vote, then every Priscus is considered to have voted against. It
doesn't matter whether any given Priscus voted for or against the subvote,
or abstained.
For example, if the Prisci subvote is against the main vote and Bribes
is played, nobody who controls any Prisci other than the acting player can
collect pool as a result of Bribes.

5) The Priscus title provides 0 votes in the larger sense, even though it
provides 1 vote for purposes of the Prisci subvote. Thus, for example,
using Island of Yiaros on a Priscus gives that vampire +0 hand damage.

6) The opportunity to diablerize a vampire attempting to leave torpor is a
function of blocking that action. The player controlling the blocking
vampire may take advantage of this opportunity even if that vampire goes
into torpor, gets burned, or otherwise leaves play.

7) If a player burns more pool than he or she has, that player actually has
negative pool. Any attempts to save that player would have to account for
this. For example, if you play a Life Boon to save a player with 3 pool who
was bled for 6, you would have to supply 4 pool to that player.

8) If a minion plays a strike that ends combat, then it ends when strike
resolution would have begun. If any other effect ends combat, it is simply
over, with no more opportunities to play cards during combat. In either
case, if the strike or effect does something in addition to ending combat,
this takes place just after the combat ends. This works exactly like other
effects that occur at the end of combat, such as that of Undead
Persistence, but does not shut down cards played after combat, such as
superior Decapitate.

9) You may play action modifiers only during your actions, and reactions
only during other players' actions. It is not important whose turn it is,
just who is acting. Specifically, action modifiers and reactions now
interact with Madness Network as most people would expect them to.

10) You may play cards and abilities that provide stealth only if any
minions have attempted to block the current action, but not if the acting
minion's stealth exceeds all of those minions' intercept. You may play
cards and abilities that provide intercept only if the minion you want to
play them on has attempted to block the current action, but not if your
minion's intercept exceeds the acting minion's stealth.
This is essentially the same rule as before, but rewritten to better
cover cases like Form of Mist. This reverses a couple of card-specific
rulings, such as the last ruling about Form of Mist.

11) When a player is ousted, his or her cards are burned at the same time
that the victory point is handed out. Thus, if a player controls any cards
that affect victory points, those cards would affect the player's own
ousting. For example, if you use Life Boon to keep your predator in the
game but burn all of your pool doing so, you will get the victory point
that your predator would otherwise have gotten for ousting you.

12) Minions controlled by the same player cannot enter combat with each
other. If a card effect or rule would put those minions into combat, this
part of the effect or rule is simply ignored.

13) Only vampires may commit diablerie. Effects that would allow something
other than a vampire to commit diablerie are ignored. For example, Amaranth
is useless if played on a Shadow Court Satyr.

14) If a minion takes an action but the acting player loses control of it
before the action is successful, the action simply ends. A player loses
control of a minion that is burned, stolen, and so on. Note that a vampire
that goes into torpor (or that began the action while in torpor) is still
controlled by the acting player, so it can complete the action.

15) Effects that increase the damage provided by strike cards affect those
cards rather than the striking minion. For example, if a vampire plays
Increased Strength followed by Burning Wrath, Increased Strength's effect
boosts the aggravated damage dealt by Burning Wrath, not the vampire's hand
damage.

16) Cards and abilities that are usable only after a successful action are
used after the appropriate action is complete, including ousting anyone. So
cards that are usable only after a successful political action cannot be
played until the votes are tallied, the vote takes effect, and so on. As
another example, superior Burnt Offerings can't be played by someone who is
ousted by a bleed, since by the time it is legal to play the card (after a
successful bleed), that player is out of the game.


ERRATA

1) Of Noble Blood cannot be played on a vampire that already has a title of
any kind.

2) Unlike other reaction cards, Reform Body may be played by a minion that
is tapped.

3) Mind Rape's counters only go away during your untap phase, not during
each untap phase. This is a continuation of global errata to previous
cards.

4) The second sentence of Tremere Convocation is contradictory. It should
be read as follows: "Vampires with basic Thaumaturgy may play combat cards
requiring Thaumaturgy as if they had superior Thaumaturgy."


CARD RULINGS

1) Blood of Acid's effect lasts until end of combat.

2) The pool loss from Major Boon is simply due to a card effect. The fact
that a bleed occurred somewhere along the way doesn't mean that this pool
loss is "due to a bleed."

3) Wooden Stake tracks total damage dealt over the course of a combat, just
as the original Stake did.

4) Blood Brother Ambush's life total is an effect of putting the card into
play normally. If the card comes into play through some other means, such
as Compel the Spirit, then it has 0 life and is burned as soon as it enters
play.

5) Form of Mist cannot "continue" an action if played during a combat
resulting from a successful action, such as Bum's Rush. This is because the
results of an action are considered to take effect after that action is
successful.

6) Storm Sewers sets the range for the combat and prevents anyone from
choosing that combat's range, as well as eliminating the Establish Range
step of combat. Specifically, it nullifies Cailean's ability.

7) Delaying Tactics doesn't pretend that the political action was never
taken; it simply cancels the voting process. Thus, it does not allow the
acting minion to overcome the "no repeated action" rule, assuming that rule
is in effect.

8) Mask of a Thousand Faces ignores any "type of minion" requirement of the
action. For example, a member of the Inner Circle can use the Mask to take
over Atonement, and a Sabbat vampire can use the Mask to take over an
action that requires a Camarilla vampire. However, if the effect cannot
legally apply to the vampire that took over the action, it is ignored. For
example, while a Sabbat vampire can use the Mask to take over a Praxis
Seizure, it cannot gain the resulting title, since only Camarilla vampires
can be Princes.

9) Legacy of Caine effectively replaces the vampire's "gain blood from the
blood bank by hunting" action with a "steal blood by hunting" action.
Modifiers to the amount of blood gained due to hunting, such as Aaron's
Feeding Razor, do not affect the Legacy's version of the hunting action.

Brian Wellington

unread,
Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
to

In article <33B812...@regency.wizards.com>,

LSJ (VtES Rep) <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:
>Some elaborations/examples to help the medicine go down:
>
>LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote:
>> 8) If a minion plays a strike that ends combat, then it ends when strike
>> resolution would have begun. If any other effect ends combat, it is simply
>> over, with no more opportunities to play cards during combat. In either
>> case, if the strike or effect does something in addition to ending combat,
>> this takes place just after the combat ends. This works exactly like other
>> effects that occur at the end of combat, such as that of Undead
>> Persistence, but does not shut down cards played after combat, such as
>> superior Decapitate.
>
>So, basically, damage from Mariel Lady Thunder, Riposte and Catatonic Fear
>is dealt immediately after combat (and thus is unpreventable and is not
>made aggravated by Dawn Operation, etc.).

If the damage is not dealt until after combat, does that mean that damage
is inflicted regardless of range, since range is only valid during combat?

Also, in several earlier posts you said that Pulled Fangs could be used
after Catatonic Fear/Riposte. Is this no longer true, since combat cards
cannot be played after the conclusion of combat?

Brian

Richard D. Zopf

unread,
Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

"LSJ (VtES Rep)" <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:

>GENERAL RULINGS

While I'm going to take some time to digest these before commenting,
the first thing I'd like to note is the clarity of these rulings, a
thing not often seen of late. No doubt this is due to some exemplary
cornering techniques of our dear rulesmonger. Thanks again, LSJ, for
pulling a few more teeth from the rules team. I daresay you'll
straighten out the rules structure of this game yet....


Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
Guenhwyvar->Guenivere->Genevive->Jennifer...got it??


LSJ (VtES Rep)

unread,
Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

Brian Wellington wrote:
>
> In article <33B812...@regency.wizards.com>,

> LSJ (VtES Rep) <vte...@regency.wizards.com> wrote:
> >Some elaborations/examples to help the medicine go down:
> >
> >LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote:
> >> 8) If a minion plays a strike that ends combat, then it ends when strike
> >> resolution would have begun. If any other effect ends combat, it is simply
> >> over, with no more opportunities to play cards during combat. In either
> >> case, if the strike or effect does something in addition to ending combat,
> >> this takes place just after the combat ends. This works exactly like other
> >> effects that occur at the end of combat, such as that of Undead
> >> Persistence, but does not shut down cards played after combat, such as
> >> superior Decapitate.
> >
> >So, basically, damage from Mariel Lady Thunder, Riposte and Catatonic Fear
> >is dealt immediately after combat (and thus is unpreventable and is not
> >made aggravated by Dawn Operation, etc.).
>
> If the damage is not dealt until after combat, does that mean that damage
> is inflicted regardless of range, since range is only valid during combat?

Correct.

> Also, in several earlier posts you said that Pulled Fangs could be used
> after Catatonic Fear/Riposte. Is this no longer true, since combat cards
> cannot be played after the conclusion of combat?

Correct, that is no longer true. Card text (Pulled Fangs): "Only usable
when a minion *in combat* inflicts..." (emphasis mine).

CurtAdams

unread,
Jul 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/3/97
to

Nice reasonable set of rulings. Kudos to whoever was responsible for
this. Glad to see the stealth business fixed and the straightforward
interpretation of Madness Network. It's also good to see the business of
who dealt damage to whom addressed.

Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages