Infernal Rule Change
tobinator
wanted in the KMW precon format because of the infernal penalty.
And so I was thinking just this morning that I'd bet there would be
some kind of rule change...and then low and behold:
>From the site:
"Before KMW, The infernal penalty was paid to avoid tapping the
infernal vampire in the untap phase. Now, as of KMW, the infernal
penalty is paid to untap the infernal vampire (who now doesn't untap as
normal).
So if the vampire is untapped already at the start of your turn (either
because he didn't tap or because he untapped some other way via Majesty
or Change of Target of the like), you don't have to pay to keep him
that way."
Now you can block, S:CE with Majesty and do something on your very next
turn without the pool loss...
woo hoo!
-tpl
Jozxyqk
other things that stop them from untapping during the untap phase?
i.e. Sensory Deprivation, Rotschreck, Toreador Grand Ball (if you had
an Infernal Toreador of course) ?
Colin Goodman
Barbarro Luccese to turn my prey's vamps infernal so they either lose pool
to untap them or tap them and have no actions/blockers. Though not a major
change, it does mean I have to work around it now.
--
Colin "Eryx" Goodman
Cambridge UK
http://www.geocities.com/eryx_uk/Cambridge_by_night.html
LSJ
news:lIidnTYtFPU...@comcast.com...
Yes. Redundantly not untapping as normal will not prevent you
from doing the non-normal untapping (by whatever means, infernal
or otherwise).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
geo...@for.auth.gr
hard for you, but please try).
Can a sensory deprivated (sup) infernal vampire, pay 1 pool to untap ?
George
LSJ
news:1105719567.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> so, please answer with a yes or no (i know what i ask is very
> hard for you, but please try).
You mean like I just did in the previous response?
> Can a sensory deprivated (sup) infernal vampire, pay 1 pool to untap ?
> George
Again, yes.
See also a Sensory Deprived Deranged vampire.
geo...@for.auth.gr
(sorry, didn't see the "Yes" which is infront of the "Redundantly not
untapping as normal will not prevent you
from doing the non-normal untapping (by whatever means, infernal or
otherwise")
careless me... :)
George
jeff_kuta
> From the site:
> "Before KMW, The infernal penalty was paid to avoid tapping the
> infernal vampire in the untap phase. Now, as of KMW, the infernal
> penalty is paid to untap the infernal vampire (who now doesn't untap
as
> normal).
>
> So if the vampire is untapped already at the start of your turn
(either
> because he didn't tap or because he untapped some other way via
Majesty
> or Change of Target of the like), you don't have to pay to keep him
> that way."
Jeff
Daneel
I know that I'm being whiney-whiney, but this rules change just slightly
shot one of my decks in the balls... ;( I was playing Baali especially
because they can be tapped without acting or blocking. Of course, it may
be a step towards making the Baali more competitive, but in the right
hands they weren't terribly bad to begin with... Designing around flaws
or frailties is an ever present deck construction consideration.
*sigh* anyway, I've always seen the Baali as the clan 2nd worst off (at
"best"). No amount of infernalism can make them less desirable than the
clan (or bloodline) which exhibits the following traits:
- One clan discipline is so uncommon that less than half of the crypt even
has it (and nobody has it at superior).
- Despite this, an almost-decent vampire of said clan has an OOC discipline
that is a rather... interesting choice.
- Their special cards focus on Melee Weapon combat, with absolutely no
ranged potenrial - and the best maneuver they have access to is Fake Out.
- Their clan-concept based advantages function mostly against a clan which
has ready access to an abundance of maneuvers, ranged strikes, and strikes
that foil fortitude prevent and weapons...
- The clan would only be good for weenie combat, but then again it only
numbers 5 members, which is not exactly the definition of weenies...
...there's a bonus for anyone who finds out what clan I'm talking about.
--
Bye,
Daneel
id77...@gmail.com
> ...there's a bonus for anyone who finds out what clan I'm talking
about.
>
> --
> Bye,
>
> Daneel
well, duh, !sal
does that mean i get all of your rares, or what?
how about all of your sabbat uncommons, i'd settle for that
-KB, Prince of Harrisburg
Frederick Scott
news:opskmdng...@news.chello.hu...
> On 14 Jan 2005 07:51:08 -0800, tobinator <tobin...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> - Their special cards focus on Melee Weapon combat, with absolutely no
> ranged potenrial - and the best maneuver they have access to is Fake Out.
I have no clue what any of this means. But you're clearly ignoring
Behind You!, whose only flaw is that you can't use it after the first
round of combat. But it makes a great free backup to Fear of the Void
Below, since you normally don't need a backup maneuver after the first
round. (That is, opponents will usually expend all their maneuvers
going back to close the first round.) And the Baali with superior OBF
can dodge with it in a pinch or to get it out of their hands.
Yes, complaining about this rule change because you have some deck
that somehow takes advantage of their tapped-ness is very whiny.
Extremely whiny! You should have played it in the Storyline and
gotten it out of your system.
Fred
Piers
>
> See also a Sensory Deprived Deranged vampire.
Im sorry this isnt the most constructive of posts
WooooHooo to the above ruling :)
Piers
Piers
<id77...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105755171.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>> ...there's a bonus for anyone who finds out what clan I'm talking
> about.
>> Daneel
>
> well, duh, !sal
>
> does that mean i get all of your rares, or what?
> how about all of your sabbat uncommons, i'd settle for that
> -KB, Prince of Harrisburg
Err it cant be !Salubri - Adonai & Wolf Valentine have superior Valeren &
all of the rest hav it at monor.
Im still sure that the Nagaraja is by far the weakest - has anyone ever
played a deck with them ?
hmm Its some sort of trick question I think as the only clans with 5 vamp
are :-
Ahrimanes, Daughters, Harbinger, Kiasyd, !Salubri and all of those have at
least one vamp with the clan disciplines at Superior.
AUS FOR NEC for the Harbinger..
Piers
Frederick Scott
news:41e8995e$0$19160$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
> Im still sure that the Nagaraja is by far the weakest - has anyone ever
> played a deck with them ?
Have I played a deck with Le Dinh Tho? You bet!
I don't think of the Nagaraja as a clan. I think of them as three
individual vampires which have interesting specials that might go
into a deck as basically "clanless" vampires. (What happens when a
scarce bloodline has no special discipline nor clan cards.)
Fred
Screaming Vermillian
Piers wrote:
> <id77...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1105755171.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Err it cant be !Salubri - Adonai & Wolf Valentine have superior
Valeren &
> all of the rest hav it at monor.
For is a clan discipline for !sal (Daneel didn't say clan defining or
specific discipline, as we all like to assume).
FOR would really make !Sal something... compared to their nothing. :P
Peter D Bakija
> Im still sure that the Nagaraja is by far the weakest - has anyone ever
> played a deck with them ?
Umm, wha? The Nagaraja are, like, the most useful bloddlines clan right out
of the box. And show up in decks all the time. They have good special
abilities and aren't hindered by a wacky bloodlines discipline. They are
fantastic.
Kanimana has, what, DOM, NEC, AUS? Yeah, those disciplines never come up.
Heck, she fits right into pretty much any non fighty Giovani deck that
already exists.
Le Din Tho is a 5 with NEC, dom. Again, Giovanni built right in. And he has
a very useful special ability.
The Other One has AUS on a reasonably sized vampire and built in +1 stealth.
I mean, yeah, it is tough to build an all Nagaraja clan deck (although I
hear they exist), but they are all good vampires who have decks already for
them to join.
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
"How does this end?"
"In fire."
Emperor Turhan and Kosh
geo...@for.auth.gr
I love Baali, so you better watch it, or i'll send
the Great Beast to deal with you...
about the rest of your message....
what clan are you talking about.... hmmm.... let me
take a wild guess... Salubri antitribu ?????
did i find it ????
George
geo...@for.auth.gr
played a deck with them ?
well, Nararaja can fit in some decks, but they are not really capable
of
standing alone in the cruelness of jyhad... those damn flesh-eaters can
only be used to support other deck-concepts...
George
geo...@for.auth.gr
no
> ranged potenrial - and the best maneuver they have access to is Fake
Out.
he is talking about salubri anti, not baali...
George
Daneel
wrote:
> Piers wrote:
>
>> Im still sure that the Nagaraja is by far the weakest - has anyone ever
>> played a deck with them ?
>
> Umm, wha? The Nagaraja are, like, the most useful bloddlines clan right
> out
> of the box. And show up in decks all the time. They have good special
> abilities and aren't hindered by a wacky bloodlines discipline. They are
> fantastic.
Alas, I've also seen a pure Nagaraja deck make the finals of a 40-some
tournament. It almost won too (except for a pesky "I didn't say I don't
block" stunt pulled by its prey). It was laughable at first sight but
really scary when you knew what it was doing. Shows that with good design
you *can* have a good chance to win with only two or three vampires.
--
Bye,
Daneel
Derek Ray
Hash: SHA1
How ironic. I think that was the exact design goal of Bloodlines.
Score one for the WW design team.
- --
Derek
insert clever quotation here
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Peter D Bakija
> Im still sure that the Nagaraja is by far the weakest - has anyone ever
> played a deck with them ?
And again, yes. All the time. The Nagaraja are like the most generically
useful bloodlines vampires in the set. They have strong discipline spreads
(NEC, DOM, AUS, pro; AUS, obf, dom, nec; NEC, dom, aus) and powerful special
abilities. They come ready for inclusion in multiple deck types (Kanimana
goes with Giovanni or Tremere or Malkavian or whatever; Raful is a Malkavian
with nec; Le Din Tho goes with Giovanni or the Baron). They are fantastic
vampires. You just can't really built a crypt out of just them.
As the intention of the bloodlines expansion, really, was to have vampires
that mixed in with other clans (see: discipline cards with outferiors and
clans thay you can only really effectively get one out of at a time in most
cases), and the Nagaraja are the easiest vampires to do this with, I'm
totally at a loss as to how someone could think they were "weak".
> well, Nararaja can fit in some decks, but they are not really capable
> of
> standing alone in the cruelness of jyhad... those damn flesh-eaters can
> only be used to support other deck-concepts...
Umm, yeah?
Curevei
>
>played a deck with them ?
Both times someone played Nagaraja in local storylines, the player was top seed
going into the finals.
>well, Nararaja can fit in some decks, but they are not really capable
>of
>standing alone in the cruelness of jyhad... those damn flesh-eaters can
>only be used to support other deck-concepts...
Even mentioning the above, though, the Nagaraja are certainly the least
clanlike of any clan. I think there should be something to make them more
interesting to play even as supporting characters, but I could say that about a
lot of clans.