[SPOILER] Kemintiri (Adv)
David Zopf
Follower of Set
10 Cap
OBF PRE SER THA aus dom
Advanced, Independent, Red List: +1 Stealth (Merged) Kemintiri has 3 votes
(titled). She can play cards that require Camarilla, Ventrue, and/or a
justicar title.
Illus: Lawrence Snelly (not a Photoshop piece, BTW. Go Larry!!)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/images/CardKMW06kem.jpg
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Papipo
Rant deck :]
Smiling Tom
"Papipo" <pap...@gmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:1106584959.7...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I think that she will be chosen to command my brand new Free States
> Rant deck :]
>
Then add a ridiculous ammount of secure havens/sleep unseen/secret passage,
because being a red list = easy to rush vamp.
But it's nice. You can put in play basic, go anarch, and then merge to get
an Anarch pseudo-justicar.
Matthew T. Morgan
> I think that she will be chosen to command my brand new Free States
> Rant deck :]
That's all you want to do with the Setite "justicar?"
Call Protect Thine Own!
Have her name a few Archons and Alastors!
Make the Camarilla Fall, then block something with Second Tradition:
Domain!
Call Corruption's Purge? Well, maybe not.
Judgment: Camarilla Segregation? Again, not the wisest choice.
Legacy of Power!
I think the winner is going to have to be Parity Shift.
Looks like quite a good vampire. I wonder if the Red List rule will make
her difficult or impossible to play.
Matt Morgan
nikita.s...@gmail.com
Oh! Finally Lawrence began to use brushes again
His photoshop portraits were really shi... ummm.. tasteless and
inappropriate ;)
And they look dated by now
BTW, only his art prevented me from playing Setites :)
Screaming Vermillian
It makes her very very rushable... Pack in those SCE and maneuver's
honey. You're in for a bumpy ride.
Her non-merged advanced version is kinda' weak... 11.5 points for a ten
cap with red list? Ouch...
Stefan Ferenci
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Papipo wrote:
> Make the Camarilla Fall, then block something with Second Tradition:
> Domain!
>
you are almost as broken as josh ;-)
stefan
echia...@yahoo.com
That's 12 points not 11.5. 10 points worth of disciplines and +1
stealth is worth 2 points. I agree that non-merged Advanced is kinda
weak. Compare to Spider Killer who is also a 10-cap with 10 points of
disciplines and +1 stealth. Kemintiri Advanced however gets Red Listed.
So let's hope that there's a bright side to being Red List instead of
it just being a giant target on your forehead (and making you a munchy
target when you're in torpor).
But really, it's her Merged special that is outstanding. Watch out!
High Stakes here we come! ;)
The downside is that a Ventrue rush deck will make Merged Kemintiri a
very very sad panda. Hrothulf or Arika Assault Rifle will have a field
day. First rush her with the Red List ability, Freak Drive, and then
rush her with the drawback from her basic ability. :'(
Matthew T. Morgan
>
> Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Papipo wrote:
>
>> Looks like quite a good vampire. I wonder if the Red List rule will
> make
>> her difficult or impossible to play.
>
> It makes her very very rushable... Pack in those SCE and maneuver's
> honey. You're in for a bumpy ride.
On the positive side, if you have some good defensive plan, it makes it
more likely that those won't be wasted slots.
Probably the best way to do it is bring up the base version, play Secure
Haven and then merge. As long as the Haven doesn't go away you should be
safe (barring an intercept/Amaranth deck, I guess).
> Her non-merged advanced version is kinda' weak... 11.5 points for a ten
> cap with red list? Ouch...
I thought +1 stealth was a 2 point ability. Anyway, she's obviously
designed to be merged. The original Kemintiri is pretty crappy as well.
Matt Morgan
Emmit Svenson
using the advanced vamps we've seen before now, since you'll need fewer
copies of each version of her in your crypt. She or another of your FoS
can play Summon the Serpent to retrieve whichever version you're
missing. With an Info Highway in play, you can move the 1 blood from
StS to your pool and use it to pay to merge her in the same turn.
That's still a high cost in actions, transfers and blood, of course,
but it's better than fishing for half the game.
I'd suppose most decks that want to use merged Kementiri would use
several copies of her ADV version and just one of her base, since +1
stealth is so useful.
Screaming Vermillian wrote:
> Her non-merged advanced version is kinda' weak... 11.5 points for a
ten
> cap with red list? Ouch...
+1 stealth on all actions is worth at least 2; compare her to
Spider-Killer or Cyscek. (I'd say Aristotle is undercosted.)
Personally, I'm drooling over a SER minion with +1 stealth. Too bad
that using Temptation to untap her frequently would leave her low on
blood and vulnerable to Red List rushes.
However, Red List might not be a net disadvantage for decks built
around Red List minions. What if there are powerful Red List only cards
not unlike the cards for Anarchs and Black Hand vampires? We'll have to
see the rest of the set before we can judge.
Emmit Svenson
Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> That's all you want to do with the Setite "justicar?"
>
> Call Protect Thine Own!
Play Fall of the Camarilla, THEN call PTO in a Closed Session. No vamps
will be able to vote. Knock enough counters off Wormwood and nobody
will be safe.
John Flournoy
echia...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Screaming Vermillian wrote:
> > Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> > > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Papipo wrote:
> >
> > > Looks like quite a good vampire. I wonder if the Red List rule
> > > will make
> > > her difficult or impossible to play.
> >
> > It makes her very very rushable... Pack in those SCE and maneuver's
> > honey. You're in for a bumpy ride.
See below.
> > Her non-merged advanced version is kinda' weak... 11.5 points for a
> ten
> > cap with red list? Ouch...
>
> The downside is that a Ventrue rush deck will make Merged Kemintiri a
> very very sad panda. Hrothulf or Arika Assault Rifle will have a
field
> day. First rush her with the Red List ability, Freak Drive, and then
> rush her with the drawback from her basic ability. :'(
If ever there was a vampire to make great use out of Sleep Unseen,
Kemintiri's it. Without superior AUS, no basic-flaw rush, no Red List
rush, no nothing. Hrothulf or Arika Assualt Rifle will sit there unable
to do a stinkin thing, as will a whole lot of common combat decks.
You're going to have to rush her FAST, before she gets a chance to act.
(Though Tariq still gets to eat her like popcorn.)
-John Flournoy
sam...@gmail.com
Regards,
Patrick
Columbus, OH
LSJ
news:colav05do6vntu4br...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:53:29 -0600, "Matthew T. Morgan"
> >Make the Camarilla Fall, then block something with Second Tradition:
> >Domain!
>
> there is no more Camarilla. How can she play cards that require a
> justicar title when there is no such thing as justicars anymore?
Card text. She can play cards that require a justicar.
Just because every justicar's title is inert while there is
no Camarilla doesn't mean that Second Tradition no longer
requires a justicar (or prince).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
shawn stanley
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Papipo wrote:
>
>> I think that she will be chosen to command my brand new Free States
>> Rant deck :]
>
>That's all you want to do with the Setite "justicar?"
>
>Call Protect Thine Own!
>
>Have her name a few Archons and Alastors!
>
>Make the Camarilla Fall, then block something with Second Tradition:
>Domain!
hang on how can she do that? Once you play Fall of the Camarilla,
vol...@yahoo.com
get
>an Anarch pseudo-justicar.
Heck, you could manage that in a single master phase if you get a good
draw - Galaric's followed by Gift of Experience. Just don't forget to
go Anarch one way or another BEFORE you merge her. Otherwise you're
kind of stuck.
Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
geo...@for.auth.gr
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Papipo wrote:
> Looks like quite a good vampire. I wonder if the Red List rule will
make
> her difficult or impossible to play.
and Screaming Vermillian responded:
It makes her very very rushable... Pack in those SCE and maneuver's
honey. You're in for a bumpy ride.
Her non-merged advanced version is kinda' weak... 11.5 points for a ten
cap with red list? Ouch...
Well, why not try to build a THA - SER - Anathema based deck ?
I believe that it will be very fun to play...
with PRE and Ventrue Headquarters, it shouldn't be difficult
to vote them.
Additionaly, use Temptations to tempt rushers and votes
George
echia...@yahoo.com
geor...@for.auth.gr wrote:
> Well, why not try to build a THA - SER - Anathema based deck ?
> I believe that it will be very fun to play...
>
> with PRE and Ventrue Headquarters, it shouldn't be difficult
> to vote them.
> Additionaly, use Temptations to tempt rushers and votes
>
>
> George
Read her special. It doesn't allow you (the Methusaleh) to play Ventrue
cards (compare to Tatiana's special). Thus you'll need an actual
Ventrue to play Ventrue Headquarters (Merged Kemintiri just won't do).
In terms of Ventrue cards, Kemintiri's ability is good for Elder
Kindred Network, High Stakes, and Political Ally. That's it.
Emmit Svenson
> In terms of Ventrue cards, Kemintiri's ability is good for Elder
> Kindred Network, High Stakes, and Political Ally. That's it.
geo...@for.auth.gr
Read her special. It doesn't allow you (the Methusaleh) to play Ventrue
cards (compare to Tatiana's special). Thus you'll need an actual
Ventrue to play Ventrue Headquarters (Merged Kemintiri just won't do).
In terms of Ventrue cards, Kemintiri's ability is good for Elder
Kindred Network, High Stakes, and Political Ally. That's it.
Yeah, you are right. At first when i read the special i noticed that
it was different than Tatiana's and it didn't allow you to play cards
that require Ventrue. But at the time i was writing my post i was
careless and wrongly mentioned Ventrue Headquarters.
so, no problem reading the special, it was just me the careless :)
George
David Zopf
<geo...@for.auth.gr> wrote in message
news:1106660343....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> echiang wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Read her special. It doesn't allow you (the Methusaleh) to play Ventrue
> cards (compare to Tatiana's special). Thus you'll need an actual
> Ventrue to play Ventrue Headquarters (Merged Kemintiri just won't do).
>
> In terms of Ventrue cards, Kemintiri's ability is good for Elder
> Kindred Network, High Stakes, and Political Ally. That's it.
>
>
> Yeah, you are right. At first when i read the special i noticed that
> it was different than Tatiana's and it didn't allow you to play cards
> that require Ventrue.
? Now I guess I'm not reading it right, because it looks like she can to
me:
This;
"She can play cards that require Camarilla, Ventrue, and/or a
justicar title."
is equal to this;
"She can play cards that require Camarilla. She can play cards that require
Ventrue. She can play cards that require a justicar title."
Which is different from Tatiana's special, but probably only for space
considerations. No?
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
David Zopf
"David Zopf" <david...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:ygsJd.21758$by5...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
> No?
>
Heh.
Disregard. I got it. Not enough coffee yet. Sorry...
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Daneel
wrote:
But make sure you have the egde before you play Closed Session.
--
Bye,
Daneel
de...@hell.is
But make sure you have the egde before you play Closed Session.
does the vote provided by the political action count as being cast by
the acting vampire?
I don't think it does, but couldn't find any ruling.
obviously you still need to get the edge away from any disagreeable
methuselah :-)
press
of the card right now. equipment only usable by anarch, iirc, the
anarch plays one blood to cancel a d action against him) !!!! she´s
ten cap, so she can spare some blood to not risk getting rushed (S:CE
can get countered by several cards, as we all know well enough)....
jnew...@difsol.com
Body Bag burns two blood, but could work.
Smiling Tom
<jnew...@difsol.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:1106744927....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Not in the case of a marked red list
"Ok, I use a MPA to declare free hunt on Kemintiri"
vamp#1 rushes. You burn 2 blood to prevent, ok
Vamp#2rushes. You burn 2 blood, ok
vamp#3 rushes...
How long do you think you'll last until beaten to torpor????
I think the best way is combining secure haven, a generous amount of sleep
unseen, and free defensive cards (swallowed&staredown?). That or being a
combat monster, of course.
Smiling Tom
jnew...@difsol.com
>
> "Ok, I use a MPA to declare free hunt on Kemintiri"
> vamp#1 rushes. You burn 2 blood to prevent, ok
> Vamp#2rushes. You burn 2 blood, ok
> vamp#3 rushes...
>
> How long do you think you'll last until beaten to torpor????
>
> I think the best way is combining secure haven, a generous amount of
sleep
> unseen, and free defensive cards (swallowed&staredown?). That or
being a
> combat monster, of course.
>
> Smiling Tom
Magic of the Smith for a Hand of Conrad and stack on Typhonic Beasts
when anyone rushes you :) (and taste back the blood you spend - or have
a Path of Typhon to make them free - or both).
Also lets her play Iron Glare at both levels.
John
Smiling Tom
> being a
> > combat monster, of course.
> >
> > Smiling Tom
>
> Magic of the Smith for a Hand of Conrad and stack on Typhonic Beasts
> when anyone rushes you :) (and taste back the blood you spend - or have
> a Path of Typhon to make them free - or both).
> Also lets her play Iron Glare at both levels.
>
> John
>
Jeje. Then we can go round to that option: Rutor's Hand. Alastor+eye of
hazimel: stack typhonics+inmortal+blood furys...2 rushes per turn
(alastor+Eye)
jnew...@difsol.com
of
> hazimel: stack typhonics+inmortal+blood furys...2 rushes per turn
> (alastor+Eye)
Heh. Too bad she can't draw out the beast. I guess
Apportation/Swallowed by the Night can help her keep it close.
John
John Flournoy
Use the Summoning to get an Infernal Familiar, and you can play DotB
(as well as lots of other things.) If you really want to be absurdly
card-intensive.
> John
-John Flournoy
Emmit Svenson
Smiling Tom wrote:
> Alastor+eye of
> hazimel: stack typhonics+inmortal+blood furys...2 rushes per turn
> (alastor+Eye)
Alas, Kementiri cannot be an Alastor without first Clan Impersonating,
Into the Fire + Out of the Frying Pan, or Invitation Accepted.
LSJ
Or merging and then calling it herself (as a Camarilla justicar).
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:35t2nsF...@individual.net...
> "Emmit Svenson" <emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106858990.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Smiling Tom wrote:
> > > Alastor+eye of
> > > hazimel: stack typhonics+inmortal+blood furys...2 rushes per turn
> > > (alastor+Eye)
> >
> > Alas, Kementiri cannot be an Alastor without first Clan
Impersonating,
> > Into the Fire + Out of the Frying Pan, or Invitation Accepted.
>
> Or merging and then calling it herself (as a Camarilla justicar).
Well, she can *call* it then, but she can't *be* an Alastor (named by
the vote card) while she's still "actually" an Independent vampire.
Unless you're counting that as part of "playing cards that require
Camarilla"?
Josh
kemin to ya
Colin McGuigan
> "Emmit Svenson" <emmits...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1106858990.4...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Smiling Tom wrote:
>>
>>>Alastor+eye of
>>>hazimel: stack typhonics+inmortal+blood furys...2 rushes per turn
>>>(alastor+Eye)
>>
>>Alas, Kementiri cannot be an Alastor without first Clan Impersonating,
>>Into the Fire + Out of the Frying Pan, or Invitation Accepted.
>
>
> Or merging and then calling it herself (as a Camarilla justicar).
Mmmm? Is she actually treated as a Ventrue/Camarilla/Justicar while
using cards that require it (similar to allies playing cards "as a
vampire")?
Can she call Alastor/Archon/Camarilla Exemplary/etc and name herself?
Tangentially, what happens if she calls a Praxis Seizure (successfully)?
Previously, I would've thought this would lead to her gaining the
title of Prince, losing her 3 votes, and then losing the Prince title
because she was of the wrong sect. But now I'm not sure...
--Colin McGuigan
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> using cards that require it (similar to allies playing cards "as a
> vampire")?
>
> Can she call Alastor/Archon/Camarilla Exemplary/etc and name herself?
>
Yes, the card will treat her as one for the duration of the referendum.
> Tangentially, what happens if she calls a Praxis Seizure (successfully)?
> Previously, I would've thought this would lead to her gaining the
> title of Prince, losing her 3 votes, and then losing the Prince title
> because she was of the wrong sect. But now I'm not sure...
>
You are correct, the Praxis is called, she gains the title, and then
ceases to be under an effect treating her as Camarilla, losing the title.
LSJ
>>Mmmm? Is she actually treated as a Ventrue/Camarilla/Justicar while
>>using cards that require it (similar to allies playing cards "as a
>>vampire")?
>>
>>Can she call Alastor/Archon/Camarilla Exemplary/etc and name herself?
>>
> Yes, the card will treat her as one for the duration of the referendum.
Correct. Any card a minion plays "as" something (as a vampire, as
a justicar, as an ally, as a Sabbat, etc.) treats that minion
as that thing (in as far as being played is involved -- like the
referendum portion of playing a political action card is).
>>Tangentially, what happens if she calls a Praxis Seizure (successfully)?
>> Previously, I would've thought this would lead to her gaining the
>>title of Prince, losing her 3 votes, and then losing the Prince title
>>because she was of the wrong sect. But now I'm not sure...
>
> You are correct, the Praxis is called, she gains the title, and then
> ceases to be under an effect treating her as Camarilla, losing the title.
Her Prince title would replace the other title and would then go inert
until she changes sects to Camarilla, yes.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Emmit Svenson
LSJ wrote:
> > Alas, Kementiri cannot be an Alastor without first Clan
Impersonating,
> > Into the Fire + Out of the Frying Pan, or Invitation Accepted.
>
> Or merging and then calling it herself (as a Camarilla justicar).
So if she calls a vote such as Alastor that requires her to be
Camarilla or a justicar, she is considered Camarilla or a Justicar for
the purposes of naming the targets of the referendum?
If so, would she also be Independant (or Sabbat, if she had changed
sects) for the purpose of naming targets, or does she temporarily lose
her former sect?
Would she also be considered Camarilla or a Justicar for the purposes
of votes cast in the resulting referendum?
If she takes an action that requires Ventrue, does she stop being a
Follower of Set for the duration of the action?
If she is blocked when taking an action that requires Camarilla,
Justicar or Ventrue, is she Camarilla, a Justicar or Ventrue in the
resulting combat?
If she plays a reaction that requires Camarilla, Justicar or Ventrue,
is she Camarilla, Justicar or Ventrue for the duration of the action
and in any resulting combat?
Sorry about the barrage of questions, but since her wording is "may
play cards that require [X].", I have to determine if the function is
different if it's different from "may play cards that require [X] *as
if she were* [X].", which is Tatiyana's wording. Are they functionally
identical?
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
>
>>>Alas, Kementiri cannot be an Alastor without first Clan
>
> Impersonating,
>
>>>Into the Fire + Out of the Frying Pan, or Invitation Accepted.
>>
>>Or merging and then calling it herself (as a Camarilla justicar).
>
>
> So if she calls a vote such as Alastor that requires her to be
> Camarilla or a justicar, she is considered Camarilla or a Justicar for
> the purposes of naming the targets of the referendum?
>
> If so, would she also be Independant (or Sabbat, if she had changed
> sects) for the purpose of naming targets, or does she temporarily lose
> her former sect?
You don't lose sect, you change sect.
If you're Camarilla, you're not Independent (a sub-set of non-Camarilla).
> Would she also be considered Camarilla or a Justicar for the purposes
> of votes cast in the resulting referendum?
No. But moot, since she has three votes.
> If she takes an action that requires Ventrue, does she stop being a
> Follower of Set for the duration of the action?
A vampire has only one clan.
She doesn't change clans, however.
It's just the card she plays that treats her otherwise.
See also "ally may play cards as a vampire" yet doesn't "turn into
a vampire" for the action.
This will be refered to as "Same" in subsequent answers.
> If she is blocked when taking an action that requires Camarilla,
> Justicar or Ventrue, is she Camarilla, a Justicar or Ventrue in the
> resulting combat?
Same.
> If she plays a reaction that requires Camarilla, Justicar or Ventrue,
> is she Camarilla, Justicar or Ventrue for the duration of the action
> and in any resulting combat?
Same.
> Sorry about the barrage of questions, but since her wording is "may
> play cards that require [X].", I have to determine if the function is
> different if it's different from "may play cards that require [X] *as
> if she were* [X].", which is Tatiyana's wording. Are they functionally
> identical?
Yes.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Emmit Svenson
LSJ wrote:
> Correct. Any card a minion plays "as" something (as a vampire, as
> a justicar, as an ally, as a Sabbat, etc.) treats that minion
> as that thing (in as far as being played is involved -- like the
> referendum portion of playing a political action card is).
But Kementiri doesn't play "as"--or at least that clause does not
appear on her preview card. "She may play cards that require Camarilla,
Ventrue, or a Justicar title."
Assuming she plays a card "as" a Justicar, does she have a Justicar
title's votes in place of her own votes for the duration of the
referendum? For example, if she had become a Prince or a Liason, would
she still have 3 votes from the title?
Joshua Duffin
> Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
> >>Mmmm? Is she actually treated as a Ventrue/Camarilla/Justicar while
> >>using cards that require it (similar to allies playing cards "as a
> >>vampire")?
> >>
> >>Can she call Alastor/Archon/Camarilla Exemplary/etc and name herself?
> >>
> > Yes, the card will treat her as one for the duration of the referendum.
>
> Correct. Any card a minion plays "as" something (as a vampire, as
> a justicar, as an ally, as a Sabbat, etc.) treats that minion
> as that thing (in as far as being played is involved -- like the
> referendum portion of playing a political action card is).
I'm slightly surprised by this, because Kemintiri Advanced's card text
doesn't use the word "as". It says that "she can play cards that require
Camarilla, Ventrue, and/or a justicar title" - not that she plays the cards
as if she *were* those things, just that she can play cards that have those
requirements. You're saying that's equivalent to the text on allies and
such specifying that they play cards "as a vampire of capacity X"? It might
have been more intuitive to use the same template, if so. :-)
Josh
kemintutu, the doubly evil justicar
Emmit Svenson
questions. I just want to make sure I understand:
LSJ wrote:
> Emmit Svenson wrote:
> > Would she also be considered Camarilla or a Justicar for the
purposes
> > of votes cast in the resulting referendum?
>
> No. But moot, since she has three votes.
So if she calls a Cam-only vote like Justicar Retribution and then
plays Closed Session, she would not be able to vote in the resulting
referendum, because Closed Session does not require a Camarilla
vampire?
Emmit Svenson
> I'm slightly surprised by this, because Kemintiri Advanced's card
text
> have been more intuitive to use the same template...
My guess is that they ran out of room. That's a lot of copy on her.
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> plays Closed Session, she would not be able to vote in the resulting
> referendum, because Closed Session does not require a Camarilla
> vampire?
>
Correct. The card thinks she's Camarilla, the referendum does not.
LSJ
> such specifying that they play cards "as a vampire of capacity X"? It might
> have been more intuitive to use the same template, if so. :-)
If they had the same text space with which to work, you might be right. :-)
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
>
>>Correct. Any card a minion plays "as" something (as a vampire, as
>>a justicar, as an ally, as a Sabbat, etc.) treats that minion
>>as that thing (in as far as being played is involved -- like the
>>referendum portion of playing a political action card is).
>
>
> But Kementiri doesn't play "as"--or at least that clause does not
> appear on her preview card. "She may play cards that require Camarilla,
> Ventrue, or a Justicar title."
She does, otherwise she wouldn't meet the requirements.
> Assuming she plays a card "as" a Justicar, does she have a Justicar
> title's votes in place of her own votes for the duration of the
> referendum? For example, if she had become a Prince or a Liason, would
> she still have 3 votes from the title?
Still no.
LSJ
> So if she calls a Cam-only vote like Justicar Retribution and then
> plays Closed Session, she would not be able to vote in the resulting
> referendum, because Closed Session does not require a Camarilla
> vampire?
She's a Justicar as far as the Closed Session is concerned, since
she played it as a Justicar.
Emmit Svenson
LSJ wrote:
> Emmit Svenson wrote:
> > So if she calls a Cam-only vote like Justicar Retribution and then
> > plays Closed Session, she would not be able to vote in the
resulting
> > referendum, because Closed Session does not require a Camarilla
> > vampire?
>
> She's a Justicar as far as the Closed Session is concerned, since
> she played it as a Justicar.
But she's still non-Camarilla as far as the Closed Session is
concerned, because it doesn't require a Camarilla vampire, correct?
LSJ
> But she's still non-Camarilla as far as the Closed Session is
> concerned, because it doesn't require a Camarilla vampire, correct?
It requires a Justicar, and therefore a Camarilla (since you cannot
be the former save that you are the latter).
vol...@yahoo.com
>be the former save that you are the latter).
Hokay. So let me just make sure I understand this. What it sounds
like is that each card and its effects check what Kemintiri is *in
isolation* from other cards and effects.
So my merged, anarch Kemintiri could call a Free States Rant (or a
Parity Shift) and then make it a Closed Session, and then add a Rant on
top of that. Not that this particular combination would be very
useful, but she could do it, right? And she herself could burn a blood
under Rant, but no other Anarchs would actually get to vote because of
the Closed Session. Is that right?
Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
LSJ
> Hokay. So let me just make sure I understand this. What it sounds
> like is that each card and its effects check what Kemintiri is *in
> isolation* from other cards and effects.
The ones she plays as something treat her as that something.
Everything else treats her (and everything else) as what they are.
> So my merged, anarch Kemintiri could call a Free States Rant (or a
> Parity Shift) and then make it a Closed Session, and then add a Rant on
> top of that. Not that this particular combination would be very
> useful, but she could do it, right? And she herself could burn a blood
> under Rant, but no other Anarchs would actually get to vote because of
> the Closed Session. Is that right?
Correct.
Joshua Duffin
> Emmit Svenson wrote:
> > But she's still non-Camarilla as far as the Closed Session is
> > concerned, because it doesn't require a Camarilla vampire, correct?
>
> It requires a Justicar, and therefore a Camarilla (since you cannot
> be the former save that you are the latter).
This becomes rather mind-bending when she's playing Closed Session while
Fall of the Camarilla is in play. There are no Camarilla vampires, and
Camarilla vampires are considered Independent, yet she can vote because
Closed Session treats her as a Camarilla justicar... though as a Camarilla
justicar she would be Independent and not a justicar at all.
I think I do understand how you're saying this effect works, but it's still
kind of extraordinary, so for certainty's sake:
If merged Kemintiri plays Judgement: Camarilla Segregation (and is your only
"non-Camarilla" vampire in play), the J:CS will treat her as a Camarilla
justicar, and therefore you will not have to burn a pool during your untap
phase, correct?
If she calls the vote Ventrue Justicar, since the card itself treats her as
Ventrue justicar, she'll both get the extra vote in the referendum and can
be named as the new justicar, correct? (Though if she does become Ventrue
justicar, after the referendum her card text of "Independent" will make the
titl