[LSJ] Another query on burned/controlled/removed cards during ousting
Drag0nBear
1) Meth A plays Sensory Deprivation on Meth B's minions. Meth B is
subsequently ousted (with several minions still under Sense Dep).
Are the Sense Dep's burned or removed from the game?
From 1.6.3 (and no counter card text) I'd say that Meth B controls the
Sense Deps on his own minions, and thus by 1.3 the cards are removed
from the game. Is this correct?
2) However, the same situation using Temptation would result in the
burned Temptations returning to Meth A's ash heap (via card text Meth
A still controls the Temptations & 1.1.2). Is this correct?
3) What of Blood Dolls & Vessel's:
Meth A plays Blood Doll on Vamp1, who is later Graverobbed by Meth B.
Meth A is ousted. Meth B keeps Vamp1 (by 1.3 & 9.1).
Does the Blood Doll get removed (via 9.1)? (Since by 1.6.2 it's still
controlled by Meth A, even though card text allows Meth B to use it.)
---
i) Control of Steal the Mind / Soul Painting / Pulled Fangs / Madman's
Quill / Lunatic Eruption, etc. & who the action(s) to remove it is
directed at.
According to 1.6.3, all these cards are controlled by the minion
they've been played *on*. e.g. Meth A plays Steal the Mind on Vamp2
owned by Meth B. By 1.6.3, Meth B owns the Steal the Mind, correct?
If so, that means the action to remove it is directed at Meth B (not
Meth A who played it), and so Meth A would need Eagle's Sight or
similar to attempt to block the removal action (Meth C's minion taking
action), or need to be the predator/prey of Meth B if it's one of Meth
B's minions taking the removal action (via 6.2.2.1). Is this correct?
Thanks heaps,
A.
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Relevant Rule Book quotes:
"A master card in play is, by default, controlled by the Methuselah
who played it, even if it is played on a card controlled by another
Methuselah." (1.6.2)
"By default, a minion card in play is controlled by the controller of
the minion it is on. If a minion card is just in play and not on
another controlled card, then it is, by default, controlled by the
Methuselah who played it." (1.6.3)
"When a card is "burned" it is placed into its owner's discard pile
(the discard pile is called the "ash heap" for this reason)." (1.1.2)
"When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other
cards on it are burned." (1.1.2)
"If you are ousted before the end of the game, any of your cards that
other players control remain in play until burned as normal." (1.3)
"If you are ousted, all the cards you control are removed from the
game. Any of your opponents' cards you control are returned to them at
the end of the game. Any of your cards controlled by other Methuselahs
remain in play as normal" (9.1)
Salem
> According to 1.6.3, all these cards are controlled by the minion
> they've been played *on*. e.g. Meth A plays Steal the Mind on Vamp2
> owned by Meth B. By 1.6.3, Meth B owns the Steal the Mind, correct?
careful here. Owning and controlling are different.
Ownership refers to which player brought the card to the game in their
deck (usually being the person who physically purchased the card, hence
owning it).
So for the above, Meth B controls, but does not own, the Steal the Mind.
aside from that minor quibble I'd agree with the way you understand the
rest of these things to work.
--
salem.
Drag0nBear
Ah, thanks for the correction, that was just lazy proof-reading on my
part.
Should read "controlled by" and "controlled" respectively. Shouldn't
have used "own" at all.
LSJ
> Apologies if this has been covered and I've missed it.
> 1) Meth A plays Sensory Deprivation on Meth B's minions. Meth B is
> subsequently ousted (with several minions still under Sense Dep).
> Are the Sense Dep's burned or removed from the game?
>
> From 1.6.3 (and no counter card text) I'd say that Meth B controls the
> Sense Deps on his own minions, and thus by 1.3 the cards are removed
> from the game. Is this correct?
Yes.
> 2) However, the same situation using Temptation would result in the
> burned Temptations returning to Meth A's ash heap (via card text Meth
> A still controls the Temptations & 1.1.2). Is this correct?
Yes.
> 3) What of Blood Dolls & Vessel's:
> Meth A plays Blood Doll on Vamp1, who is later Graverobbed by Meth B.
> Meth A is ousted. Meth B keeps Vamp1 (by 1.3 & 9.1).
> Does the Blood Doll get removed (via 9.1)? (Since by 1.6.2 it's still
> controlled by Meth A, even though card text allows Meth B to use it.)
Yes.
> ---
> i) Control of Steal the Mind / Soul Painting / Pulled Fangs / Madman's
> Quill / Lunatic Eruption, etc. & who the action(s) to remove it is
> directed at.
>
> According to 1.6.3, all these cards are controlled by the minion
> they've been played *on*. e.g. Meth A plays Steal the Mind on Vamp2
> [controlled] by Meth B. By 1.6.3, Meth B [controls] the Steal the Mind,
> correct?
Yes.
> If so, that means the action to remove it is directed at Meth B (not
> Meth A who played it), and so Meth A would need Eagle's Sight or
> similar to attempt to block the removal action (Meth C's minion taking
> action), or need to be the predator/prey of Meth B if it's one of Meth
> B's minions taking the removal action (via 6.2.2.1). Is this correct?
Yes.