Banishment + merging
Colin McGuigan
Marcus Vitel has a .44 Magnum. But, oops!, he gets banished.
For reasons of my own, I influence out Marcus Vitel ADV, leaving Marcus
Vitel (and the .44 Magnum) in my uncontrolled region.
Next turn, I want to merge Marcus.
Now, going from this LSJ post:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3EA52E05.3030202%40white-wolf.com
Any blood that Marcus Vitel may have had on him in the uncontrolled
region just goes away. But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame?
Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged
vampire?
Relevant rulebook text:
"The advancement card is a vampire card in all respects, so it can be
influenced in the normal manner. In addition, if you already control the
advancement or the associated regular "base" vampire and the other
version of the vampire is in your uncontrolled region, then you can
spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move the vampire card from your
uncontrolled region to the controlled vampire card (place the
advancement card on top of the base card). The two cards effectively
merge to form a single vampire.
The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on
the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a
single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow,
until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the
vampire now target the merged version."
The first paragraph states "the vampire card", which would seem to
indicate that nothing else moves with it. But the second paragraph
states "The counters and cards on the vampire remain". It's pretty
obvious that the second paragraph refers to the already in play version,
but...eh.
Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago
about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did
anything happen from that, or is it still in process?
--Colin McGuigan
The Lasombra
<magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote:
>I have Marcus Vitel in play, and Marcus Vitel ADV in my uncontrolled region.
>Marcus Vitel has a .44 Magnum. But, oops!, he gets banished.
>For reasons of my own, I influence out Marcus Vitel ADV, leaving Marcus
>Vitel (and the .44 Magnum) in my uncontrolled region.
>Next turn, I want to merge Marcus.
>Now, going from this LSJ post:
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3EA52E05.3030202%40white-wolf.com
>Any blood that Marcus Vitel may have had on him in the uncontrolled
>region just goes away.
This does not follow at all. LSJ only responded to the 'can you merge
if Brainwashed' question, and the answer was yes. None of the rest of
that paragraph is addressed in his reply.
Pertinent rules quote:
"counters and cards on the vampire remain."
http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/
Section 1.5.6.
>But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame?
>Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged
>vampire?
They all remain on the vampire.
>Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago
>about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did
>anything happen from that, or is it still in process?
As of August 12, 2004 the card's effects remained unchanged.
http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/errata.html
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
LSJ
Correct. Only the card moves. Anything else on that card is lost (burned).
The cards, counters, etc. on the in-play vampire remain, of course.
> Mmm. Also, to piggyback, there were LSJ posts a little over a year ago
> about putting the Revocation of Tyre effect up for RT review. Did
> anything happen from that, or is it still in process?
Still in progress.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
John Flournoy
> Pertinent rules quote:
> "counters and cards on the vampire remain."
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/
>
> Section 1.5.6.
>
> >But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame?
> >Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged
> >vampire?
>
> They all remain on the vampire.
So, to expound on Colin's example:
Marcus Vitel (basic) in play with 5 blood and a .44 Magnum, gets
Banished.
Marcus Vitel (adv) gets transferred out with his full blood.
Next turn, I Minion Tap Marcus down to 1 blood, then declare a merge
with the previously Banished base version.
So the newly-merged Marcus would have a .44 and six blood counters on
him?
-John Flournoy
John Flournoy
> Pertinent rules quote:
> "counters and cards on the vampire remain."
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/VTES/rulebook/
>
> Section 1.5.6.
>
> >But what about the .44 Magnum? Or, eg, Fame?
> >Discipline masters? Do they go away, or do they move onto the merged
> >vampire?
>
> They all remain on the vampire.
So, to expound on Colin's example:
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
>
> Marcus Vitel (basic) in play with 5 blood and a .44 Magnum, gets
> Banished.
> Marcus Vitel (adv) gets transferred out with his full blood.
> Next turn, I Minion Tap Marcus down to 1 blood, then declare a merge
> with the previously Banished base version.
>
> So the newly-merged Marcus would have a .44 and six blood counters on
> him?
>
There is a confusion here. Everything on the *in-play* vampire remains.
Everything on the *uncontrolled* vampire *card* is burned. The
newly-merged Marcus in this example would have 1 blood and no equipment.
[1.5.6]
Advancement: An advancement card is a type of vampire card for your crypt.
An advancement card looks just like a regular crypt card except that it
has an Advancement icon under the clan icon.
The advancement card is a vampire card in all respects, so it can be
influenced in the normal manner. In addition, if you already control the
advancement or the associated regular "base" vampire and the other version
of the vampire is in your uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4
transfers and 1 pool to move the vampire card from your uncontrolled
region to the controlled vampire card (place the advancement card on top
of the base card). The two cards effectively merge to form a single
vampire.
The particulars of this merge are as follows. The counters and cards on
the vampire remain. The advancement and the base card are treated as a
single vampire card, even if sent to the uncontrolled region somehow,
until the vampire is burned. Any effects in play that targeted the vampire
now target the merged version.
When merged, the text on the base card still applies, but the rest of the
card is ignored (capacity, Disciplines, etc.). The advancement card
applies in full. If the advancement card conflicts with the base card (a
different sect, for example), the advancement card has precedence. Some
merged cards have an additional effect that only applies if the card is
merged with its base card. Such an effect is identified in the card text
by a "merged" icon.
The advanced vampire (merged or not) will contest other copies of the same
vampire (advanced or not) in play, as usual.
Wouter Kuyper
> Correct. Only the card moves. Anything else on that card is lost (burned).
> The cards, counters, etc. on the in-play vampire remain, of course.
>
I don't know if it makes a difference somewhere, but are these cards
burned from the controlled region or from somewhere else?
(i know there are cards that require things to have been burned from
the controlled region, i haven't checked yet if they could be on
banished vamps)
W
Daneel
I'm pretty sure the burned counters and cards are burned from the source
(uncontrolled region). If Memory's Fading Glimpse moves a vampire to the
bottom of the crypt, the cards and counters are burned from the
uncontrolled region, not the crypt.
Bye,
Daneel
LSJ
news:opsdyczt...@news.chello.hu...
Correct. Since they aren't in the controlled region, they cannot be burned
from the controlled region.
They're in the uncontrolled region, and burn when the card they are on
is removed (to go be merged with its counterpart in the controlled
region).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu