Results of Portsmouth tournament 22/ii/99 plus some IoW stuff
legb...@my-dejanews.com
Another of our monthly tournaments at Second Byte, and another good turnout -
17 Methuselahs. We played three rounds with tables of 4-5, and at the end we
had a six-player final so as not to have to throw a dice to disqualify one of
the two people [Pierre and Louisa] with 4VPs. The placings were as follows:
Matt Green won, with 4VPs; Alamut deck [listed below] Pierre Rebstock was
second, with 1; Presence bleed and vote deck which is kicking nicely for him
these nights: Louisa Cowie was third, also with 1;
Malkavian/Malkavian-antitribu hard-core stealth bleed deck: Rob Treasure was
fourth; Out-of-turn combat [mainly Malkavian, making good use of Protean and
Rotschreck]: I [legbiter] was fifth; [Malkavian out-of-turn combat, 5th
edition going on to 6th] and William Lee was sixth. [Nosferatu antitribu
long-range combat deck with some bleed].
It wasn't, unfortunately, a great final [though the preliminary games were
generally excellent] because Rob and I were playing VERY similar decks, and we
both fell essentially because of contesting. So Matt had a very easy ride over
Will and Rob, and Louisa took me out in almost equally quick time. For a while
there was a good contest between Rob and Pierre and Louisa, and Pierre
eventually prevailed in that by ousting Louisa, after which the end came
swiftly.
Matt's winning deck was a really good one, however, and of course he's a very
good player, so i'm certainly not saying that it wouldn't have won had the
competition been fiercer. Normally, however, you would back a combat deck to
win when three of them reach the final, so i think a LITTLE well-deserved
luck went Matt's way this time, just as it eluded him on the Isle of Wight.
Here is the deck - judge for yourselves!
CRYPT
2 Tansu Bekir
Husamettin
Kailinda
Melek
Lena Rowe
Watenda
2 Mariana Gilbert
Delilah Easton
Demetrious Slater
Ramiel Dupre
LIBRARY
18 Masters
4 Alamut
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
2 Direct Intervention
Sudden Reversal
2 Blood Doll
Market Square
KRCG News Radio
Rumour Mill
Elysium the Arboretum
Presence
Obfuscate
21 Political Actions
10 KRC
PS Istanbul, Paris, Monaco, Dublin
Toreador Justicar
3 Banishment
2 Disputed Territory
Revocation of Tyre
22 Action Modifiers
4 Awe
6 Lost in Crowds
4 Aire of Elation
2 Elder Impersonation
6 Cloak the Gathering
11 Actions
5th Tradition
2 Memory's fading Glimpse
7 Legal Manipulations
3 retainers
JS Simmons Esq
Tasha Morgan
Mr Winthrop
10 combat
8 Majesty
2 Behind You
7 Reactions
7 WWEF
Also, Will Lee very kindly wrote out his winning deck from the Isle of Wight
for me. Here it is:
William Lee's Brujah Princes.
CRYPT
Don Cruez
3 x Donal o Connor
2 x Constanza Vinti
Anvil
Lizete Vizquel
Volker
Jimmy Dunn
Dre
Jacob Bragg
LIBRARY
16 Masters
Rumour Mill
Dreams of the Sphinx
Carthage Remembered
Major Boon
Sudden reversal
Minion Tap x 3
Information Highway
Dominate x 3
Golconda
Direct Intervention
The Rack
Blood Doll
Deflection x 4
Govern the Unaligned x 3
Scouting Mission
Conditioning x 2
Bonding x 3
Foreshadowing Destruction
Thoughts Betrayed
Immortal Grapple x 3
Torn Signpost x 4
Pushing the Limit x 3
Thrown Gate x 2
Disarm x 2
Undead Strength
Sacrament of Carnage
Decapitate
Blur x 4
Acrobatics x 2
Sideslip x 3
Pursuit x 2
Sidestrike
Psyche
Archon x 2
KRC
Disputed Territory
Parity Shift
Camarilla Exemplary
2nd Tradition x 6
Wakes x 2
Forced Awakening
Fifth Tradition x 3
Bum's Rush x 2
Ambush
Mr Winthrop
Leather Jacket
Taste of Vitae x 2
Pulled Fangs
Thanks as usual to John Eagles for his organisational skills and impartial
judging. Our next meeting is on the 27th of March and it will be a
sealed-deck tournament using Sabbat cards only; entry is 10GBP for 4 boosters
from which you build a 55 card library using the Portsmouth draft system.
Should be good - seeya there!
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at
legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Portsmouth tournament 20/ii/99 Report.
>
> Thanks as usual to John Eagles for his organisational skills and impartial
> judging. Our next meeting is on the 27th of March and it will be a
> sealed-deck tournament using Sabbat cards only; entry is 10GBP for 4 boosters
> from which you build a 55 card library using the Portsmouth draft system.
> Should be good - seeya there!
When will the DCI start sanction sealed deck tournaments? It's no problem
with Magic, so they can do it with VTES, too. IMO Sealed Deck attracts a lot
of players, who don't want to play with "boring" tournament decks... ;)
Carl
(VEKN Prince of Vienna)
legb...@my-dejanews.com
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at wrote:
> In article <7art8j$5jq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Portsmouth tournament 20/ii/99 Report.
>
> >
> > Thanks as usual to John Eagles for his organisational skills and impartial
> > judging. Our next meeting is on the 27th of March and it will be a
> > sealed-deck tournament using Sabbat cards only; entry is 10GBP for 4 boosters
> > from which you build a 55 card library using the Portsmouth draft system.
> > Should be good - seeya there!
>
> When will the DCI start sanction sealed deck tournaments? It's no problem
> with Magic, so they can do it with VTES, too. IMO Sealed Deck attracts a lot
> of players, who don't want to play with "boring" tournament decks... ;)
>
> Carl
> (VEKN Prince of Vienna)
>
As far as i'm concerned the important thing is prize support, and thanks to
John Eagles' amazing entrepreneurial skills we are getting this for the
sealed-deck tournament too.
Robert Goudie
>
> In article <7art8j$5jq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > Portsmouth tournament 20/ii/99 Report.
>
> >
> > Thanks as usual to John Eagles for his organisational skills and impartial
> > judging. Our next meeting is on the 27th of March and it will be a
> > sealed-deck tournament using Sabbat cards only; entry is 10GBP for 4 boosters
> > from which you build a 55 card library using the Portsmouth draft system.
> > Should be good - seeya there!
>
> When will the DCI start sanction sealed deck tournaments? It's no problem
> with Magic, so they can do it with VTES, too. IMO Sealed Deck attracts a lot
> of players, who don't want to play with "boring" tournament decks... ;)
The DCI has expressed interest in sanctioning a sealed deck format. A
couple of groups are working on Sealed Deck variants but, at this time,
none are suitable for submission. If you'd like to suggest a format,
please feel free to do so.
--
Robert Goudie, Chairman rrgo...@earthlink.net
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net
_________________________________________________________________
The Official Vampire: the Eternal Struggle Players Organization
Dhar...@yahoo.com
> The DCI has expressed interest in sanctioning a sealed deck format. A
> couple of groups are working on Sealed Deck variants but, at this time,
> none are suitable for submission. If you'd like to suggest a format,
> please feel free to do so.
Does this include Draft formats as well? The Michigan Draft format has
been thoroughly tested (even at Origins) and we've gotten very positive
feedback for it.
Noal
--
"Excuse me. Are you a yuppie?"
-woman at a gas station in Detroit
Robert Goudie
>
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> > The DCI has expressed interest in sanctioning a sealed deck format. A
> > couple of groups are working on Sealed Deck variants but, at this time,
> > none are suitable for submission. If you'd like to suggest a format,
> > please feel free to do so.
>
> Does this include Draft formats as well? The Michigan Draft format has
> been thoroughly tested (even at Origins) and we've gotten very positive
> feedback for it.
**One** new "limited" format will be selected. That will either be a
Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
complex/time-consuming.
Dhar...@yahoo.com
> **One** new "limited" format will be selected. That will either be a
> Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
> Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
> complex/time-consuming.
Actually, I think it's much less complex than others I've seen.
The issue with it being to time-consuming has largely been addressed.
I kinda munged it a bit at Origins, but at the time it was still in
the development stages. I think it's been fine-tuned to be a
reasonable contender. The big benefit that people like is that
they have a better control over what ends up in their deck.
As for a straight sealed deck format, I can't imagine that there is
that much variation in how it's done. The usual standard is a
starter and two boosters or some rough equivalent in Sabbat boosters.
Correct me if I'm wrong...not that you need my permission. *grin*
Jasper Phillips
Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Does this include Draft formats as well? The Michigan Draft format has
>> been thoroughly tested (even at Origins) and we've gotten very positive
>> feedback for it.
>
>Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
>Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
>complex/time-consuming.
That's the thing, sealed deck and draft are really quite different
beasts. Why not allow either?
--
/\ Jasper Phillips
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|~"~"~"~"~"~"----------........____ jaz
j^^^^^^^^^^^^^\/"~"~"~"~-----------........._____ ~"~--.
* http://www.engr.orst.edu/~philljas/ "~"~'--`
legb...@my-dejanews.com
Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > **One** new "limited" format will be selected. That will either be a
> > Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
> > Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
> > complex/time-consuming.
>
> The issue with it being to time-consuming has largely been addressed.
> I kinda munged it a bit at Origins, but at the time it was still in
> the development stages. I think it's been fine-tuned to be a
> reasonable contender. The big benefit that people like is that
> they have a better control over what ends up in their deck.
>
> As for a straight sealed deck format, I can't imagine that there is
> that much variation in how it's done. The usual standard is a
> starter and two boosters or some rough equivalent in Sabbat boosters.
> Correct me if I'm wrong...not that you need my permission. *grin*
>
> Noal
> --
> "Excuse me. Are you a yuppie?"
> -woman at a gas station in Detroit
>
A variant of the Michigan draft, called the Portsmouth draft, is the one we
use and will be using for the sealed-deck tournament on 27th march.
You buy 4 Sabbat boosters. You make a 55 card library and a 12+ crypt. You
set aside 15 cards from your library face-up as potential trades. Anyone
wishing to trade suggests a trade. If accepted, the cards are exchanged and
turned over. If not accepted, the person to whom the trade was proposed turns
over the card that they declined to trade. This continues until everyone has
finished trading. Play is for ante and the Sabbat withdrawing rule is
observed, but otherwise the normal rules for tournaments obtain. If you lose
a card through ante you must replace it with a card from your "sideboard" -
ie the cards you had spare from the initial deck-building - before the next
heat. If you gain a card through ante you may put it in your deck but must
then remove a card to keep to the 55 card library size.
We find this works just fine, isn't too complex, and as carl says it makes
for very interesing games. Kudos to the MJL for inventing the concept, which
we have just tweaked a little.
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at
Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at wrote:
> >
> > In article <7art8j$5jq$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> > legb...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > > Portsmouth tournament 20/ii/99 Report.
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks as usual to John Eagles for his organisational skills and impartial
> > > judging. Our next meeting is on the 27th of March and it will be a
> > > sealed-deck tournament using Sabbat cards only; entry is 10GBP for 4
boosters
> > > from which you build a 55 card library using the Portsmouth draft system.
> > > Should be good - seeya there!
> >
> > When will the DCI start sanction sealed deck tournaments? It's no problem
> > with Magic, so they can do it with VTES, too. IMO Sealed Deck attracts a lot
> > of players, who don't want to play with "boring" tournament decks... ;)
>
> couple of groups are working on Sealed Deck variants but, at this time,
> none are suitable for submission. If you'd like to suggest a format,
> please feel free to do so.
Sorry, but I fail to see the problem.
Sealed deck: each player brings X boosters (set and number previously fixed)
and the rest of the tournament is like any other.
What's the difficulty?
Carl
(VEKN Prince of Vienna)
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at
Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > **One** new "limited" format will be selected. That will either be a
> > Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
> > Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
> > complex/time-consuming.
>
> Actually, I think it's much less complex than others I've seen.
> The issue with it being to time-consuming has largely been addressed.
> I kinda munged it a bit at Origins, but at the time it was still in
> the development stages. I think it's been fine-tuned to be a
> reasonable contender. The big benefit that people like is that
> they have a better control over what ends up in their deck.
>
> As for a straight sealed deck format, I can't imagine that there is
> that much variation in how it's done. The usual standard is a
> starter and two boosters or some rough equivalent in Sabbat boosters.
> Correct me if I'm wrong...not that you need my permission. *grin*
Standard Sealed depends on what conditions the organisator sets.
2 Starters are fine. 5 booster Sabbat are fine. You can also mix: 2 Booster
VTES and 4 AH or DS, or 2 Booster from each expansion plus 1 Starter.
The point is that this is easy to do, and not always the same, which
people value.
My vote goes for the Standard Sealed format.
Robert Goudie
>
> In article <36D348AD...@earthlink.net>,
> Robert Goudie <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >Dhar...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Does this include Draft formats as well? The Michigan Draft format has
> >> been thoroughly tested (even at Origins) and we've gotten very positive
> >> feedback for it.
> >
> >Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
> >Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
> >complex/time-consuming.
>
> beasts. Why not allow either?
I personally don't have a problem with either one of them. They are
different beasts. However, the DCI is interested in adding one
"limited" format. We can suggest whatever we want. So far, they have
accepted nearly everything we have put before them in the last year. We
have a lot of input over the content of the one limited format.
Every different "sanctioned" format is an additional ongoing expenditure
and time and money. As my brief experience with the V:EKN player
ratings has shown me, I certainly wouldn't want to have to keep ratings
for 3 or more different systems.
Robert Goudie
>
> > **One** new "limited" format will be selected. That will either be a
> > Sealed Deck format or a Draft. I've received mixed opinions on the
> > Michigan Draft format with some people claiming that the setup was too
> > complex/time-consuming.
>
> The issue with it being to time-consuming has largely been addressed.
> I kinda munged it a bit at Origins, but at the time it was still in
> the development stages. I think it's been fine-tuned to be a
> reasonable contender. The big benefit that people like is that
> they have a better control over what ends up in their deck.
I'll do my best to get some kind of consensus about which limited format
should be submitted to the DCI. You mentioned a problem at Origins
which has been a sticking point for a number of people who've contacted
me. Those people might need to have a positive experience with the
"fine-tuned" version before they get behind it.
> As for a straight sealed deck format, I can't imagine that there is
> that much variation in how it's done. The usual standard is a
> starter and two boosters or some rough equivalent in Sabbat boosters.
> Correct me if I'm wrong...not that you need my permission. *grin*
Not much variation, no. I mispoke in my earlier post. The submissions
so far have been of Draft formats.
mboh...@shout.net
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at wrote:
> Sealed deck: each player brings X boosters (set and number previously fixed)
> and the rest of the tournament is like any other.
> What's the difficulty?
It's too luck oriented. It's really easy to get shafted on vampires
matching your library cards. Although, I won't attribute my 1st and
2nd place finishes in the two Viennese sealed tournaments that I played. :)
Actually, I haven't looked at the different draft formats. Hey, Robert,
how about putting them on the V:EKN site as tournament variants that may
be sanctioned later?
Has anyone thought about this - every starts with X boosters. They keep
the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
their library cards.
Mike
--
Mike Bohlmann, MAIP - Prince of Urbana-Champaign
http://www.shout.net/~mbohlman/
Jasper Phillips
>In article <7b0k10$9q7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>
>Has anyone thought about this - every starts with X boosters. They keep
>the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
>Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
>and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
>before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
>their library cards.
I've never tried sealed Jyhad, but I've always wondered whether you'd
have serious trouble getting a usuable combination of vampires together.
Jyhad seems like a game particularily poorly suited to sealed play.
In magic you can get away with using perhaps 3 colors, an so most
of your cards will be usable (getting land that doesn't match your
cards is the biggest hoser), while in games like L5R you are largely
saved by the fixed cards in starters. In Jyhad though, you have at
least 7 clans, with relatively few combinations that work together, and
a whole host of disciplines; it's always seemed to me that Jyhad requires
a larger number of cards to play.
Those of you who've tried it, I'm curious -- is a starter a couple
of boosters really enough for sealed play?
legb...@my-dejanews.com
phil...@tx.ENGR.ORST.EDU (Jasper Phillips) wrote:
> In article <7b2kei$vbs$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <mboh...@shout.net> wrote:
> >In article <7b0k10$9q7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> >
> >Has anyone thought about this - every starts with X boosters. They keep
> >the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
> >Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
> >and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
> >before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
> >their library cards.
>
> I've never tried sealed Jyhad, but I've always wondered whether you'd
> have serious trouble getting a usuable combination of vampires together.
> Jyhad seems like a game particularily poorly suited to sealed play.
> In magic you can get away with using perhaps 3 colors, an so most
> of your cards will be usable (getting land that doesn't match your
> cards is the biggest hoser), while in games like L5R you are largely
> saved by the fixed cards in starters. In Jyhad though, you have at
> least 7 clans, with relatively few combinations that work together, and
> a whole host of disciplines; it's always seemed to me that Jyhad requires
> a larger number of cards to play.
>
> Those of you who've tried it, I'm curious -- is a starter a couple
> of boosters really enough for sealed play?
>
Yes, it's good! Usually you end up playing 4-5 disciplines, which is actually
not that different from many successful constructed decks. And you can still
pull off some nice combos. IMO 4 Sabbat boosters works better than 1 starter
and 2 VTES boosters.
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at
mboh...@shout.net wrote:
> In article <7b0k10$9q7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
>
> > Sealed deck: each player brings X boosters (set and number previously fixed)
> > and the rest of the tournament is like any other.
> > What's the difficulty?
>
> It's too luck oriented. It's really easy to get shafted on vampires
> matching your library cards. Although, I won't attribute my 1st and
> 2nd place finishes in the two Viennese sealed tournaments that I played. :)
Well, luck oriented is Ok. With Magic it's the same and they play it.
>
> Actually, I haven't looked at the different draft formats. Hey, Robert,
> how about putting them on the V:EKN site as tournament variants that may
> be sanctioned later?
>
> Has anyone thought about this - every starts with X boosters. They keep
> the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
> Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
> and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
> before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
> their library cards.
Hm, good idea. We should look at that a bit closer. ;)
Carl
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at
> >In article <7b0k10$9q7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> >
> >the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
> >Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
> >and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
> >before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
> >their library cards.
>
> have serious trouble getting a usuable combination of vampires together.
> Jyhad seems like a game particularily poorly suited to sealed play.
> In magic you can get away with using perhaps 3 colors, an so most
> of your cards will be usable (getting land that doesn't match your
> cards is the biggest hoser), while in games like L5R you are largely
> saved by the fixed cards in starters. In Jyhad though, you have at
> least 7 clans, with relatively few combinations that work together, and
> a whole host of disciplines; it's always seemed to me that Jyhad requires
> a larger number of cards to play.
>
> Those of you who've tried it, I'm curious -- is a starter a couple
> of boosters really enough for sealed play?
Yes it is enough. In sealed, players tend to have the minimum (i.e. 40
cards) in their library. Equipment, Retainers, votes get special attention,
also cards that don't require skills or clans.
Yes, it's totally different to constructed play. But therein lies the thrill;
you have to do with what you get. Games tend to last longer, coalitions are
very common, and you see cards that otherwise no-one would play.
I think it's a good thing. Some people like Sealed more then constructed.
And: it is a way to boost selling VTES. :)
mboh...@shout.net
CPilh...@bhak12.ac.at wrote:
me > It's too luck oriented. It's really easy to get shafted on vampires me
> matching your library cards. Although, I won't attribute my 1st and me >
2nd place finishes in the two Viennese sealed tournaments that I played. :)
> Well, luck oriented is Ok. With Magic it's the same and they play it.
But it's not _as_ luck oriented. In Magic, you only have 5 colors, and
you are allowed to add 5 basic lands of your choice (or at least they
used to). There's a one to one relationship of number of colors in lands
as number of colors in other cards.
In Jyhad, you have 7 clans and 10 disciplines. Permanents and cards
with permanent stealth and intercept are some of the best in sealed.
So Player A might get Gypsies and enough Gangrel with some accompanying
Gangrel cards (Fortitude, Animalism, Protean), while Player B might
get the Gypsies, have only 2 Gangrel, and hardly any Fortitude or
Animalism cards (to crossover with another clan).
A similar thing can happen with Magic, but it's not such a big deal.
me > Has anyone thought about this - every starts with X boosters. They keep
me > the Library cards from X boosters, but all the vampires are put together.
me > Then a draft commences on the vampires. Now THAT would be a lot faster,
me > and still require some skill. Of course, some time has to be alotted
me > before vampire drafting to allow everyone to acquaint themselves with
me > their library cards.
> Hm, good idea. We should look at that a bit closer. ;)
I was going to do some form of draft for my tournaments in April, and I
think I'll give this a shot.
Mike
--
Mike Bohlmann, MAIP - Prince of Urbana-Champaign
http://www.shout.net/~mbohlman/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Robert Goudie
>
> > Sealed deck: each player brings X boosters (set and number previously fixed)
> > and the rest of the tournament is like any other.
> > What's the difficulty?
>
>
> how about putting them on the V:EKN site as tournament variants that may
> be sanctioned later?
They are not mine to do so with. They are works in progress from people
who'd like to have some input. I have no Draft formats in my possession
that are ready for submission to the DCI.