LSJ: Compel the Spirit/Possession with khazars diary/spell of life?

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Klai...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2007, 8:46:17 AM10/14/07
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If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I
use possession or compel the spirit to bring it back to play? And if I
can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the
vampire?

Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them,
and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is?

Klai...@gmail.com

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Oct 14, 2007, 8:54:01 AM10/14/07
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Oh I meant Demonic Possession with Khazars diary, can I use that if a
wraith ally that was originally a vampire is burned and moved to
someone elses ashheap? Its a vampire card that was burned from play
since your last turn, even if it wasn't a vampire while in play... and
I meant compel the spirit at superior of course, as I figure you can't
move a vampire card to your hand.

James Coupe

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Oct 14, 2007, 8:56:58 AM10/14/07
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In message <1192365977.7...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,

Klai...@gmail.com writes:
>If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I
>use possession

Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back.

>or compel the spirit to bring it back to play?

No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target.

The ash heap wipes a card clean.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c705a8f17df93
***
The ash heap, library, and crypt all "wash" the cards clean (except
for a memory of how they got there, in the case of the ash heap and
certain retrieval mechanisms).
***


Similarly, you can't get Jake Washington back - he's a master card in
the ash heap.

>And if I
>can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the
>vampire?

Possession. Vampire.

>Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them,
>and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is?

If it's a vampire that's in the ash heap, Possession will work as
normal.

Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped
clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be
playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash
heap - should be fine.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

LSJ

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Oct 14, 2007, 12:52:09 PM10/14/07
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James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1192365977.7...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> Klai...@gmail.com writes:
>> If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I
>> use possession
>
> Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back.
>
>> or compel the spirit to bring it back to play?
>
> No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target.
>
> The ash heap wipes a card clean.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c705a8f17df93
> ***
> The ash heap, library, and crypt all "wash" the cards clean (except
> for a memory of how they got there, in the case of the ash heap and
> certain retrieval mechanisms).
> ***
>
>
> Similarly, you can't get Jake Washington back - he's a master card in
> the ash heap.
>
>> And if I
>> can which one, and will it come back as the mummy ally or as the
>> vampire?
>
> Possession. Vampire.

Correct.

>> Same with Khazar's Diary wraiths, which one if either works on them,
>> and will they come back as a wraith or as whatever the card is?
>
> If it's a vampire that's in the ash heap, Possession will work as
> normal.

Correct.

> Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped
> clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be
> playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash
> heap - should be fine.

No. Compel can only "move an ally or retainer that was burned from play since
your last turn from your ash heap to your hand" (or to the ready region at
superior). The ally in the ash heap is not the one that was burned. The wraith
with +1 stealth was the ally that was burned.

Similarly, if an Renegade Garou card happens to be used to represent an ghoul in
Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou.

shawn stanley

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Oct 14, 2007, 2:55:56 PM10/14/07
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On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:52:09 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
wrote:

>> Compel the Spirit on an ally now in the ash heap? Should have wiped
>> clean, and just be an ally. But I think Compel the Spirit should be
>> playable. An ally burned, there's a corresponding ally card in the ash
>> heap - should be fine.
>
>No. Compel can only "move an ally or retainer that was burned from play since
>your last turn from your ash heap to your hand" (or to the ready region at
>superior). The ally in the ash heap is not the one that was burned. The wraith
>with +1 stealth was the ally that was burned.
>
>Similarly, if an Renegade Garou card happens to be used to represent an ghoul in
>Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou.

if for no other reason than the card being remove from the game once
the Absimiliard's Army ghoul is burned.

LSJ

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Oct 14, 2007, 5:35:04 PM10/14/07
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Well, that would certainly explain why no one asked about it before, yep.

Salem

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Oct 15, 2007, 1:15:49 AM10/15/07
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zing! nice one, shawn. ;)

--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

angus_th...@hotmail.com

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Oct 15, 2007, 2:40:10 AM10/15/07
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On Oct 15, 2:52 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> James Coupe wrote:
> > In message <1192365977.747440.278...@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,

> > Klaita...@gmail.com writes:
> >> If a mummy ally brought into play with spell of life is burned, can I
> >> use possession
>
> > Yes. It's a vampire in the ash heap. Can come back.
>
> >> or compel the spirit to bring it back to play?
>
> > No. There's no ally or retainer card in the ash heap to target.
>
> > The ash heap wipes a card clean.
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f78c...
> Absimiliard's Army, and that ghoul gets burned, you can't compel the Renegade Garou.- Hide quoted text -


If you use compel the Spirit on a burnt "Reanimated Corpse" and it has
a few pathos count still on it, does it stay around until your untap
phase? I'm thinking pathos counters are burnt when the Ally burns,
Corpse then comes into play then burns straight away. But I'm hoping
I'm wrong.


Salem

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Oct 15, 2007, 3:52:00 AM10/15/07
to

You're kind of right. It does't 'work', but the reasonas are a bit
different to what you state in their specifics.

From the rulebook:

Burn: When a card is "burned," it is placed into its owner's discard
pile (the discard pile is called the "ash heap" for this reason).
[snip]
When a counter is "burned," it is returned to the blood bank
[snip]
When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other
cards on it are burned.


And thus when Reanimated Corpse goes to the ash heap, all it's pathos
counters are burned. Then when it enters play, it is Removed from the
Game (from it's text "Remove the corpse from the game if it has no
pathos counters"), not burned again.

LSJ

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Oct 15, 2007, 6:52:34 AM10/15/07
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Salem wrote:
> angus_th...@hotmail.com wrote:

[unused context snipped --- please quote responsibly]

>> If you use compel the Spirit on a burnt "Reanimated Corpse" and it has
>> a few pathos count still on it, does it stay around until your untap
>> phase? I'm thinking pathos counters are burnt when the Ally burns,
>> Corpse then comes into play then burns straight away. But I'm hoping
>> I'm wrong.
>
> You're kind of right. It does't 'work', but the reasonas are a bit
> different to what you state in their specifics.
>
> From the rulebook:
>
> Burn: When a card is "burned," it is placed into its owner's discard
> pile (the discard pile is called the "ash heap" for this reason).
> [snip]
> When a counter is "burned," it is returned to the blood bank
> [snip]
> When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other
> cards on it are burned.
>
>
> And thus when Reanimated Corpse goes to the ash heap, all it's pathos
> counters are burned.

Correct.

> Then when it enters play, it is Removed from the
> Game (from it's text "Remove the corpse from the game if it has no
> pathos counters"), not burned again.

Correct.

It gains X more Pathos counters when it enters play by its own card text (just
like a Compelled War Ghoul would require you to burn a retainer or ally), but X
is zero in this case, so gaining those zero counters doesn't really help.

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