Arika foiled by Succubus Club?

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Lupus Australis

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Apr 4, 1999, 4:00:00 AM4/4/99
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Imagine the following situation. I have 5 locations in play, and my
Predator controls Arika. One of my locations is the Succubus Club.

The rules state that when effects occur during your untap, you control the
order in which they occur (after untapping cards). Is it possible that
this could be used to foil Arika's special ability (which requires me,
during my untap, to pay 1 pool for each location I control or burn the
location).

Example: I run my untap as follows.

1) I untap all cards
2) Using the abilities of the Succubus Club, I transfer all
locations, except the Succubus Club, to an ally across the
table.
3) I pay for Arika's special ability. Since I only control 1
location, I pay only 1 pool.
4) My ally, as agreed, transfers all locations back to me.
5) I end my untap phase.

Lupus Australis
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LSJ

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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Lupus Australis wrote:
>
> Imagine the following situation. I have 5 locations in play, and my
> Predator controls Arika. One of my locations is the Succubus Club.
>
> The rules state that when effects occur during your untap, you control the
> order in which they occur (after untapping cards). Is it possible that
> this could be used to foil Arika's special ability (which requires me,
> during my untap, to pay 1 pool for each location I control or burn the
> location).
>
> Example: I run my untap as follows.
>
> 1) I untap all cards
> 2) Using the abilities of the Succubus Club, I transfer all
> locations, except the Succubus Club, to an ally across the
> table.
> 3) I pay for Arika's special ability. Since I only control 1
> location, I pay only 1 pool.
> 4) My ally, as agreed, transfers all locations back to me.
> 5) I end my untap phase.

Arika's ability is not "once during your untap, pay one pool for each location
you control (you may burn locations during your untap to avoid this cost)"

Rather, it is a "for each location" effect. One effect for each location you
control.

You cannot end your untap phase with a location that hasn't been subjected
to that "for each location" effect. That is, you cannot end your untap
phase before handling all of the effects to be handled in that phase.

You can trade away the location to avoid the effect, but if you receive it (or
any other location) during your untap phase, it will cost you a pool (or you
can burn it).

--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

Lupus Australis

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Apr 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/5/99
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On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, LSJ wrote:

> Arika's ability is not "once during your untap, pay one pool for each
> location you control (you may burn locations during your untap to avoid
> this cost)"

> Rather, it is a "for each location" effect. One effect for each location
> you control.

> You cannot end your untap phase with a location that hasn't been
> subjected to that "for each location" effect. That is, you cannot end
> your untap phase before handling all of the effects to be handled in
> that phase.

> You can trade away the location to avoid the effect, but if you receive
> it (or any other location) during your untap phase, it will cost you a
> pool (or you can burn it).

OK. That makes perfect sense. However, it suggests to me another
dastardly scheme to foil Arika.

Imagine I have 2 locations in play: Succubus Club and KRCG News. During
the initial part of my untap, I use Succubus Club to make as many trades
as I want. I then transfer the KRCG News, and finally the Succubus Club
itself, to a cross-table ally.

My ally then gets to use KRCG against his predator. He then untaps it and
returns it to me during his untap -- again ready for use agains my
predator. He also gets to use the Succubus Club during his untap, and
return it to me at the end of his untap.

The biggest question here, would be whether one can use the Club to
transfer the Club itself. Without that, the whole scheme falls apart.

carl.pi...@at.ccmail.philips.com

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.990405193516.6885B-100000@amanda>,

I cannot think of any reason why it shouldn't be able to be traded away.
In fact, we do it that way. IMO it's legal, and you foil Arika with that
tactic. *But*, can you be sure that your *ally* will give back all the
cards during his untap phase? :)

Carl
(VEKN Prince of Vienna)

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James Coupe

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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In article <7eciq0$g7a$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, carl.pi...@at.ccmail.p
hilips.com writes

>I cannot think of any reason why it shouldn't be able to be traded away.
>In fact, we do it that way. IMO it's legal, and you foil Arika with that
>tactic. *But*, can you be sure that your *ally* will give back all the
>cards during his untap phase? :)

It seems legal enough to me. I guess the crux is whether you need to be
controlling Succubus Club whilst the card is moved and when it arrives
at the "other side", but I think not, myself.

And of course, whether they give it back provides that wonderful edge.

--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)

Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

LSJ

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Apr 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/7/99
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Lupus Australis wrote:
> Imagine I have 2 locations in play: Succubus Club and KRCG News. During
> the initial part of my untap, I use Succubus Club to make as many trades
> as I want. I then transfer the KRCG News, and finally the Succubus Club
> itself, to a cross-table ally.
>
> My ally then gets to use KRCG against his predator. He then untaps it and
> returns it to me during his untap -- again ready for use agains my
> predator. He also gets to use the Succubus Club during his untap, and
> return it to me at the end of his untap.
>
> The biggest question here, would be whether one can use the Club to
> transfer the Club itself. Without that, the whole scheme falls apart.

You can use the Succubus Club to transfer the Succubus Club.
This scheme is functional.

--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.


Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

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