Question on rulings
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
I just ran the first tournament in many years, and had some rulings
during the two days, that I want to double check.
1: Alexandras special ability
Can she use her ability, while acting, on a toreador who is trying to
block her, thereby tapping it and preventing it from blocking her
(unless they can untap or play a wake)?
I ruled no.
There was a follow up question on this a bit later, but had more to do
with the good old question about when to play eagles sight. Alexandras
predator wanted to eagles sight a bleed from Alexandra, but
technically played it before Alexandras prey had declined to block.
The Alexandra player then argued that his predator played it too fast,
not allowing him to use Alexandras special to tap the potential
blocker. (We sorted it out by the predator just trying to eagles sight
with another vamp, but I am curious about the rule).
2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
sure anymore.
Alexandra, 11, ANI AUS CEL dom PRE, Toreador, 2, [DS:V, CE:PTo]
Camarilla Inner Circle: (4 votes) Once during your turn, you may tap
or untap another ready Toreador. +2 bleed.
Echo of Harmonies, Action Modifier, 1 blood, Melpominee/Presence, R2 ,
[Bloodlines:R2]
Only usable during a referendum.
[pre] If you burn the Edge for a vote, this vampire gains two
additional votes.
[mel] Usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. This
vampire gains two votes.
[MEL] Usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. Move the
political action card used to call the referendum from your ash heap
to this vampire at the end of the action. This vampire may burn that
card to call the referendum as a +1 stealth political action if he or
she meets the requirements of that card.
Jozxyqk
> 2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
> When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
> of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
> I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
> vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
> sure anymore.
Yes they do.
Current (LoB) card text of Echo of Harmonies says "This vampire may play the
political action card as if from your hand"
LSJ
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1: Alexandras special ability
> Can she use her ability, while acting, on a toreador who is trying to
> block her, thereby tapping it and preventing it from blocking her
> (unless they can untap or play a wake)?
>
> I ruled no.
She can, since it is "during your turn". The "thereby" is correct, as
well:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7fa25a6d1ae41b2b
> 2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
> When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
> of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
>
> I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
> vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
> sure anymore.
Official card text: "This vampire may play the political action card
as if from your hand (requirements and cost apply as normal)."
So, yes.
(Remember to consult official card texts for answers -- discard any
source that supplies unofficial card text, so that you do not get
misled).
floppyzedolfin
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I just ran the first tournament in many years, and had some rulings
> during the two days, that I want to double check.
>
> 1: Alexandras special ability
> Can she use her ability, while acting, on a toreador who is trying to
> block her, thereby tapping it and preventing it from blocking her
> (unless they can untap or play a wake)?
>
> I ruled no.
She can.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7fa25a6d1ae41b2b
> There was a follow up question on this a bit later, but had more to do
> with the good old question about when to play eagles sight. Alexandras
> predator wanted to eagles sight a bleed from Alexandra, but
> technically played it before Alexandras prey had declined to block.
> The Alexandra player then argued that his predator played it too fast,
> not allowing him to use Alexandras special to tap the potential
> blocker. (We sorted it out by the predator just trying to eagles sight
> with another vamp, but I am curious about the rule).
Playing a regular card requires the impulse. If the prey has the
impulse, then only the prey can attempt to block and do stuff.
The impulse will hit Alexandra's predator when all other Methuselahs
have skipped using it.
When Alexandra's prey declines to block, the impulse goes back to
Alexandra's controller who is free of tapping her predator's AUS
vampire.
> 2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
> When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
> of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
>
> I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
> vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
> sure anymore.
It does give a vote (since Legacies of Blood). It can also be DI'ed.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_LegaciesOfBlood
It also doesn't read "this vampire may burn that card" anymore but
"this vampire may play that card..."
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
> On Apr 26, 9:00 am, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt"
>
> <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1: Alexandras special ability
> > Can she use her ability, while acting, on a toreador who is trying to
> > block her, thereby tapping it and preventing it from blocking her
> > (unless they can untap or play a wake)?
>
> > I ruled no.
>
> She can, since it is "during your turn". The "thereby" is correct, as
Ok, thanks.
We were looking at: 6. Minion Phase in the rule book where it says:
Other Methuselah's ready untapped minions may attempt to block your
action, and blocking taps the blocking minion (see Resolve Any Block
Attempts, sec. 6.2.2).
and at
Summary of the Course of an Action
* The action is declared, and the card used for the action (action
card, equipment, etc.) is played, if any. Tap the minion who is taking
the action (the "acting minion").
* The target Methuselah may try to block the action with any of
her ready untapped minions. If the action doesn't target another
Methuselah (or targets more than one), then the minions of the prey
and predator may try to block.
* If one attempt to block is unsuccessful, another attempt can be
made. If no more attempts are made, then the action is successful, and
the cost of the action is paid. If a block attempt is successful, then
the blocking minion taps and enters combat with the acting minion.
I thought that the check for whether you can attempt to block or not
was only done when the blocker announces the attempt and has the
impulse.
Player A: I attempt to hunt with Alexandra
Player B: Ira Rivers will try to block (it checks whether it is
untapped or not)
Player A: I tap Ira
But it is a requirement throughout the block attempt and until the
resolution of it?
>
> > 2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
> > When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
> > of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
>
> > I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
> > vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
> > sure anymore.
>
> Official card text: "This vampire may play the political action card
> as if from your hand (requirements and cost apply as normal)."
> So, yes.
Thanks!
>
> (Remember to consult official card texts for answers -- discard any
> source that supplies unofficial card text, so that you do not get
> misled).
We were trying to look it up at the card list at
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=cardlist
but it was impossible to get it to load completely.
floppyzedolfin
<nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 26, 3:22 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > (Remember to consult official card texts for answers -- discard any
> > source that supplies unofficial card text, so that you do not get
> > misled).
>
> but it was impossible to get it to load completely.
Yup, that one isn't good.
I recommend using
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=cardlist_S
or
http://download.white-wolf.com/download/download.php?file_id=128
(which you can reach through the "Downloads" button on the vtes page)
I think the last one is a bit more accurate.
Brum
> On Apr 26, 3:00 pm, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt"
>
> <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there
>
> > I just ran the first tournament in many years, and had some rulings
> > during the two days, that I want to double check.
>
> > 1: Alexandras special ability
> > Can she use her ability, while acting, on a toreador who is trying to
> > block her, thereby tapping it and preventing it from blocking her
> > (unless they can untap or play a wake)?
>
> > I ruled no.
>
>
> > There was a follow up question on this a bit later, but had more to do
> > with the good old question about when to play eagles sight. Alexandras
> > predator wanted to eagles sight a bleed from Alexandra, but
> > technically played it before Alexandras prey had declined to block.
> > The Alexandra player then argued that his predator played it too fast,
> > not allowing him to use Alexandras special to tap the potential
> > blocker. (We sorted it out by the predator just trying to eagles sight
> > with another vamp, but I am curious about the rule).
>
> Playing a regular card requires the impulse. If the prey has the
> impulse, then only the prey can attempt to block and do stuff.
> The impulse will hit Alexandra's predator when all other Methuselahs
> have skipped using it.
> When Alexandra's prey declines to block, the impulse goes back to
> Alexandra's controller who is free of tapping her predator's AUS
> vampire.
>
> > 2: Getting the vote from a vote on Echo of Harmonies
> > When you play a political action from a vampire who took it with Echo
> > of harmonies, do you get the 1 vote from the political action card?
>
> > I ruled no because of the wording on the Echo of Harmonies - "this
> > vampire may burn that card to call the referendum" but I am not so
> > sure anymore.
>
>
> It also doesn't read "this vampire may burn that card" anymore but
> "this vampire may play that card..."
The "impulse" key word, if used in the rulebook, would make our life
easier. Of course, that would mean the complete re writing of the
rulebook.
I don't think CCP cares that much about the game.
Tiago
LSJ
> On Apr 26, 5:37 pm, "Nikolaj \"Lord of the Betrayers\" Wendt"
>
> <nikolajwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 26, 3:22 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > > (Remember to consult official card texts for answers -- discard any
> > > source that supplies unofficial card text, so that you do not get
> > > misled).
>
> > We were trying to look it up at the card list athttp://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=cardlist
> > but it was impossible to get it to load completely.
>
> Yup, that one isn't good.
> I recommend usinghttp://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=cardlist_S
> (which you can reach through the "Downloads" button on the vtes page)
>
> I think the last one is a bit more accurate.
You can get the HTML version via the link on the line=cards page that
I linked above.
That URL is:
http://white-wolf.com/vtes/HTML/cardlist.html
(That one loads completely, unlike the line=cardlist URL, which isn't
used any more)
The download.php?file_id links should be up-to-date, but aren't alway
so.
For plain text, the following link is always up-to-date:
http://white-wolf.com/vtes/downloads/cardlist.txt
Or you can use any of the 3rd-party deck building applications or web
utilities that use the official card texts.
Blooded Sand
Such as ARDB, secretlibrary or similar.
this is one of the main reasons i use ardb, as when i build decks i do
not go off the track too much.
(this happens anyway, having real card text just limits it ;)