Alexandra timing question

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Tulley Rafferty

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Feb 11, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/11/96
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I have Alexandra and Dieter Kleist (or any convenient toreador) out.
Dieter calls domain challenge. Can Alexandra untap him before the vote
is resolved to avoid taking the one damage from my vote? The text is
less then helpful, but it appears to be so general that I would guess
you could untap anyone any damn time you felt like it.

REF

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Feb 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/12/96
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Tulley Rafferty <traf...@ucsd.edu> wrote:

Just my humble opinion.
All these so called timing issues (like the castle) are not a big deal
because they are only done outside of an action unless the card or
rules specifically say they are used during an action. Like modifiers
and reactions or Mariel or the Elysium.
REF

Midnght

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Feb 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/12/96
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On 11 Feb 1996, Tulley Rafferty wrote:

> I have Alexandra and Dieter Kleist (or any convenient toreador) out.
> Dieter calls domain challenge. Can Alexandra untap him before the vote
> is resolved to avoid taking the one damage from my vote? The text is
> less then helpful, but it appears to be so general that I would guess
> you could untap anyone any damn time you felt like it.
>

Well that is a tough card. For us it's played that your vampire is tapped
cause he is doing the action. Once the voting is over you take one
damage. Unless you can untap him before the voting starts. Now Alexandra
must be a new vtes card for i only have jyhad. But if your card says
something like spend one blood to untap any ready vampire then yes you
can spend a blood and untap your amp before the voting begins. or even
after meaning you do it before the votes are tallied. That is how i see
it not fully knowing what Alendra can do.
Methuselah Midnght

Tulley Rafferty

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Feb 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/13/96
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>Just my humble opinion.
>All these so called timing issues (like the castle) are not a big deal
>because they are only done outside of an action unless the card or
>rules specifically say they are used during an action. Like modifiers
>and reactions or Mariel or the Elysium.
>REF
>
>
Hmm. I don't buy it. By that logic I couldn't tap Al's army apparatus
during combat to grab a weapon so I could use a disguised weapon. Maybe
if the card wasn't worded so cryptically it would help. "Once during
your turn, Alexandra may tap or untap another ready Toreador." Is that
really the best way they could have phrased it? I might have tried
something like "The Methuselah controlling Alexandra may tap or untap
another ready Toreador once during his or her turn. Not usable during
the course of an action." I think that might clear up some confusion
and that is what I believe the intent of the card was. Can any one else
help out?

The Corrupter

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Feb 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/13/96
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In article <4fpqq5$j...@news1.ucsd.edu>, Tulley Rafferty
<traf...@ucsd.edu> wrote:

This timing issue is a problem really specific to two cards (that I know
of). Timing isn't particularly a problem if it isn't something that
effects permanents in play or fits into the regular timing scheme. Al's
Army Apparatus, for example, doesn't effect permanents in play. Other
cards, such as actions, reactions, and action modifiers have specific
times in which they can be used and don't effect the other players
ability to play cards. For example, a dodge is played during a strike.
Drawing out the beast is used before manuevers.

When cards begin to be created that have instantaneous effects on
permanents and can be used at any time, we begin to bring in Magic timing
baggage. Using Alexandra against a minion who has begun to play
reactions is an excellent example. The minion who declares that they are
going to use Deflection, "but wait! I tap it!". This kind of loosely
structured timing is out of place in Jyhad.

To keep these kind of timing issues out of Jyhad in the future, we can
only hope that the Design Team does a good job and that playtesters call
them on mistakes. As for the ones that already exist (Heidelburg Castle,
Alexandra, any others that we might not know about), a house rule that
these powers can only be used at some specific time works just as well.
Examples of this are "usable at the beginning of untap", "usable as an
action is announced", etc..

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Algustas

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Feb 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/13/96
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Hi Tulley,
I think I can answer the original question for you.

On 13 Feb 1996, Tulley Rafferty wrote:

>
> >Just my humble opinion.
> >All these so called timing issues (like the castle) are not a big deal
> >because they are only done outside of an action unless the card or
> >rules specifically say they are used during an action. Like modifiers
> >and reactions or Mariel or the Elysium.
> >REF
> >
> Hmm. I don't buy it. By that logic I couldn't tap Al's army apparatus
> during combat to grab a weapon so I could use a disguised weapon. Maybe
> if the card wasn't worded so cryptically it would help. "Once during
> your turn, Alexandra may tap or untap another ready Toreador." Is that
> really the best way they could have phrased it? I might have tried
> something like "The Methuselah controlling Alexandra may tap or untap
> another ready Toreador once during his or her turn. Not usable during
> the course of an action." I think that might clear up some confusion
> and that is what I believe the intent of the card was. Can any one else
> help out?
>

Well, I don't have the original question any more, but I belive
it was something like: If Mariel Thunder and the Elisium are both used to
end combat what happens?
They aren't both used. It is resolved like all other timing
issues, Acting methuselah first, then blocking methuselah, then clockwise
around the table from the acting Methuselah. As soon as one is used
combat is over.
Algustas
*****There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and
statistics.***** Mark Twain


Thomas R Wylie

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Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
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REF <refp...@best.com> wrote:
>>I have Alexandra and Dieter Kleist (or any convenient toreador) out.
>>Dieter calls domain challenge. Can Alexandra untap him before the vote
>>is resolved to avoid taking the one damage from my vote? The text is
>>less then helpful, but it appears to be so general that I would guess
>>you could untap anyone any damn time you felt like it.
>All these so called timing issues (like the castle) are not a big deal
>because they are only done outside of an action unless the card or
>rules specifically say they are used during an action. Like modifiers
>and reactions or Mariel or the Elysium.

Abilities can be used whenever you could play a card, unless
there's something on the ability specifically indicating otherwise. Since
Alexandra doesn't say anything about it, she can use her ability during
the voting process.

Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.


L. Scott Johnson

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Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
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In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.960213202126.769A-100000@pentode>,

The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote:
>When cards begin to be created that have instantaneous effects on
>permanents and can be used at any time, we begin to bring in Magic timing
>baggage. Using Alexandra against a minion who has begun to play
>reactions is an excellent example. The minion who declares that they are
>going to use Deflection, "but wait! I tap it!". This kind of loosely
>structured timing is out of place in Jyhad.

While this may eventually become a headache, this example doesn't apply.
There is no response to anything in Jyhad - what's done is done. By
declaring a Deflection - Deflection is played. You can't stack an effect
as in Mt$. The only things that get retro'ed are Master cards (by
Sudden Reversal- card text) and First Strikes (by dodges - rules).

--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text

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